DC Black Hawk vs Plane crash, Philly Crash. Malicious, or incompotence?

If the audio turns out to be faked/misheard. You still have to ask why it was going full throttle nose down..that is not normal speed for a free fall. If this was an ACCIDENT. Something forced the controls to stay in full throttle from take off. Full throttle nose down. Again I am not saying this was on purpose..but like the last one "it's fishy as hell." The stranger reaction is not to have serious questions.

 
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I will say the audio... "they are f***ing with the wrong people" being posted I think is misheard. I think someone was trying to say they are "talking with the wrong people" and it was acknowledged. Maybe thought ATC was calling wrong plane. In any case full throttle nose down in populated area is crazy...does make me wonder about pilot.
 
I figured pilot error right off the bat. Saw female pilot today which confirms my educated guess. I saw enough in the air force to know when to worry about a flight.
MY question with the crash yesterday has more to do with what thought pattern that does flight training after dark near an international airport, and over some rather important secure facilities, .....more to point why did ATC ask if they "saw the plane" vs giving directions to avoid path? There may be good answers for those questions, but I'd like to hear them.

 
Flashback: Or "who needs terrorists when you have gross incompotence? "


The aggressive substitution of merit in favor of diversity has led to a so-called competency crisis, jeopardizing not only our ability to generate innovative technology but, in a more dire sense, our ability to simply maintain the proper functioning of various complex systems vital to our existence as a first-world civilization.
 
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I’m going to need you to at the very least publicly shut the **** up with this intentional crash theory. I went through training with Andy Eaves. A southern boy like most of us who had spent nearly two decades of his life giving back to his country. Deployments away from home, countless night flights like this missing out on activities with his kids and putting them to bed. More than you’ve ever sacrificed for this ****ing country. Don’t disrespect his legacy like this. The poor guy made a mistake or at least missed it under his supervision. That’s bad enough for his family to live with.
 
I’m going to need you to at the very least publicly shut the **** up with this intentional crash theory. I went through training with Andy Eaves. A southern boy like most of us who had spent nearly two decades of his life giving back to his country. Deployments away from home, countless night flights like this missing out on activities with his kids and putting them to bed. More than you’ve ever sacrificed for this ****ing country. Don’t disrespect his legacy like this. The poor guy made a mistake or at least missed it under his supervision. That’s bad enough for his family to live with.
I literally have been posting about incompotence, particularly with ATC ....and what you need me to do is none of my concern. I don't beleive I have mentioned Andy Eaves once. People have the right to ask how this could happen. You don't get to shut people up because you dislike their opinion much less valid questions. Don't disrepsect the legacy of all the people in my family who have served by saying we need to shut up and not ask questions. You don't know jack about me, my family or what we have or have not done.
 
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MY question with the crash yesterday has more to do with what thought pattern that does flight training after dark near an international airport, and over some rather important secure facilities, .....more to point why did ATC ask if they "saw the plane" vs giving directions to avoid path? There may be good answers for those questions, but I'd like to hear them.


I don't get the flight training part. Plenty of places in the area where you can avoid landing and departing aircraft. In the air force you'd have two gunners scanning for objects when you navigate in urban areas or hell an area with power lines or trees..

Id be willing to bet they'll never have night training there again..
 
The interesting discussion here to me is the FAA policies (bonus point for low science scores and possibly not hiring qualified white people because it would hurt their % despite having numerous open jobs).

That and the overall question of why do we allow military training flights at such a busy airport
 
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The interesting discussion here to me is the FAA policies (bonus point for low science scores and possibly not hiring qualified white people because it would hurt their % despite having numerous open jobs).

That and the overall question of why do we allow military training flights at such a busy airport
If some of the early reports were correct, the flight originated at a CIA facility and the help was fitted as a passenger craft. Why would the training/validation flight not follow a typical flight pattern?
 
I literally have been posting about incompotence, particularly with ATC ....and what you need me to do is none of my concern. I don't beleive I have mentioned Andy Eaves once. People have the right to ask how this could happen. You don't get to shut people up because you dislike their opinion much less valid questions. Don't disrepsect the legacy of all the people in my family who have served by saying we need to shut up and not ask questions. You don't know jack about me, my family or what we have or have not done.
ATC doesn't seem to have been "incompotent" here, the conspiracy/"seems fishy" garbage every single time is annoying
 
ATC doesn't seem to have been "incompotent" here, the conspiracy/"seems fishy" garbage every single time is annoying
A number of pilots seem to think differently, and do wonder why 3 different planes/choppers were in the same airspace. I provided one of those links. But I think pure common sense is all that is required to see a problem with the flight paths, and the audio is the cherry on top. They ask if the Helicopter has a visual but do not clearly designate which plane, they do not follow up with any directions although they can clearly see at the very least it's about to be a close call. Pretty sure when all is said and done there will be issues taken with how ATC managed the flight paths. The Pilot of the Helicopter likely will be ruled to have made mistakes. (Regardless of how that makes people feel.) There's 3 possibilities in teh investigation, Pilot Error, ATC Error, Mechanical Error. No one seems to think there was mechanical error. Investigation will find errors and mistakes by either Pilot ot ATC... and likely both. As for the ATC angle, there's a report ATC was already working basically two jobs. So staffing and logistics will play a part. Both the effects of DEI, and Covid mandates (and associated forced retirements etc) absolutely do deserve scrutiny as to the effect they had. As a smart person observed, " This is a bad situation that looks like it should have been prevented." It should have.
 
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If some of the early reports were correct, the flight originated at a CIA facility and the help was fitted as a passenger craft. Why would the training/validation flight not follow a typical flight pattern?
It had a flight path near CIA facility but it did not originate there, and the patomic flight path is normal.
 
A number of pilots seem to think differently, and do wonder why 3 different planes/choppers were in the same airspace. I provided one of those links. But I think pure common sense is all that is required to see a problem with the flight paths, and the audio is the cherry on top. They ask if the Helicopter has a visual but do not clearly designate which plane, they do not folloup with any directions although tehy can clearly see at the very least it's about to be a close call. Pretty sure when all is said and done there will be issues taken with how ATC managed the flight paths. The Pilot of Helicopter likely will be ruled to have made a mistake. (Regardless of how that makes people feel.) There's 3 possibilities Pilot Error, ATC Error, Mechanical Error. No one seems to think there was mechanical error. Investigation will find errors and mistakes by either Pilot ot ATC... and likely both. As for the ATC angle.....there's report ATC was already working basically two jobs. So staffing and logistics will play a part. Both the effects of DEI, and Covid amandate absolutely do deserve scrutiny as to the effect they had. As a smart person observed, " This is a bad situation that looks like it should have been prevented." It should have.
ATC DID follow up with directions and the recording is widely available. It's pretty obvious that the helicopter pilot(s) messed up. Bunch of lazy "questions" that have already been disproven, typical conspiracy enthusiast
 
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ATC DID follow up with directions and the recording is widely available. Bunch of lazy "questions" that have already been disproven, typical conspiracy enthusiast
IT hasn't been disproven, and no he did not give directions. He only asked if he had a visual and did not even designate with clarity the specific plane. .....and many of the experts commenting do expect human error by one or two parties to be the result. This is your problem Nash, you put forth a statement and require people submit to it being "proven" just because some asshat you listened tosaid it. I will bet you a hundred right now on the spot before it's over Human error will be a factor in the official report.
 
IT hasn't been disproven, and no he did not give directions. He only asked if he had a visual and did not even designate with clarity the specific plane. .....and many of the experts commenting do expect human error by one or two parties to be the result. This is your problem Nash, you put forth a statement and require people submit to it being "proven" just because some asshat you listened tosaid it. I will bet you a hundred right now on the spot before it's over Human error will be a factor in the official report.
When they started getting close to each other, he asked again and said to pass behind. That is a direction. Did you listen to the recording or just the DEI BS about it?

Pilot error IS human error. How about this, I guarantee you that the next time a large number of people die, Nick Fury will be here to say it "smells fishy." And the time after that, and the time after that, and...
 

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