DC Black Hawk vs Plane crash, Philly Crash. Malicious, or incompotence?

[Majors]

Pete actually increased ATC hiring unlike Mrs. Mitch McConnell (Elaine Chao)....

The main reason Chao was hired wasnt her experience but because she was f***ing Mitch McConnell.

Increasing but well understaffed doesn’t give you a pass.

 

[EasternVol]

If the audio turns out to be faked/misheard. You still have to ask why it was going full throttle nose down..that is not normal speed for a free fall. If this was an ACCIDENT. Something forced the controls to stay in full throttle from take off. Full throttle nose down. Again I am not saying this was on purpose..but like the last one "it's fishy as hell." The stranger reaction is not to have serious questions.

What makes you think it was full throttle?

 

[BigOrangeMojo]

Increasing but well understaffed doesn’t give you a pass.

Agree. It doesn't give you a pass.

This wasnt Butler, PA staffing levels incompetence either....

 

[MHS Rebel]

Coincidence. However, these come in threes. Be prepared for a third by Wednesday or so.

 

[85SugarVol]

That's not what negligence means at all, to say nothing of the irony of being unable to spell incompetence

How long is he gonna keep misspelling it while replying to posts with the actual correct spelling.

 

[Majors]

Agree. It doesn't give you a pass.

This wasnt Butler, PA staffing levels incompetence either....

Believe they each have their own chapter on what not to do when in leadership positions.

 

[Vol8188]

Coincidence. However, these come in threes. Be prepared for a third by Wednesday or so.

lol what’s the second

 

[85SugarVol]

Incompetence is the lack of the ability to do a task.

Cheatle and Mayorkas was incompetent. They had the inability to run SS and Homeland Security.


I'll buy that someone here in DC crash was negligent...

LG is still yammering on that they never cut/refused Donnie’s SS detail. They were the most compotent boys and girls.

 

[Vol8188]

Based off of ATC records, this appears to be human error. Likely the Black hawk pilot was looking at the wrong plane. Really sad and terrible situation.


I'll leave it to you guys to let the conspiracy theories run wild....

You went from mocking conspiracies, to buying into your own real fast

 

[NashVol11]

The fact that both aircraft TCAS should have been absolutely screaming at them (with copilots right next to them who can also hear them) is what makes me think this was intentional by the helo pilot.

TCAS doesn't work well below 1,000 feet

 

[gcbvol]

Paternity Leave Pete was incompetent in his inability to properly staff the FAA. His negligence put a strain on the staff involved in lost lives.

He shares blame for sure, along with his predecessors in the Trump and Obama administrations. And Congress, government shutdowns, etc. This has been an ongoing problem for many years. Lots of **** ups.

 

[EasternVol]

Man, if the flying public only knew some of the mistakes made daily in aviation. The important thing is the briefing on the plan to mitigate mistakes and how you will handle them. I don’t know why we aren’t hearing anything about the TCAS system on board these aircraft yet. How we respond to a TCAS resolution advisory is usually briefed before an approach if not at the very beginning of a trip. Anytime we receive a “resolution advisory, we are REQUIRED to follow it. With an RA, the aircraft aural warning yells at you to either climb or descend aggressively and also shows an associated green band on the Vertical Speed Indicator indicating which direction it is commanding you to fly. One, if not both of, these aircraft should have gotten a TCAS warning pretty early in this incident, assuming both TCAS systems were operative.

Would the Army craft have had TCAS though?

 

[gcbvol]

Increasing but well understaffed doesn’t give you a pass.

At least he was doing something about it, unlike his predecessors.

 

[BigOrangeMojo]

LG is still yammering on that they never cut/refused Donnie’s SS detail. They were the most compotent boys and girls.

Yeah, I caught on to that BS almost immediately that night......

Of course, he still believes that eventhough they admitted they lied when they said they didnt deny requests for more manpower....

 

[Tri-CitiesVol]

An accident or a mistake that costs 60+ lives is called negligence or incompotence. I know the concept of accountability is lost on some people, but it is a real thing.

Then stick with that so you don’t look like a piece of **** saying an Army aviator purposefully took out an airline full of people.

 

[Vol8188]

Here’s something I’m ignorant about. I’m aware of military training for air traffic control and as a former command post controller, I know a decent amount of them.

I’m assuming there is some kind of schooling on the civilian side for this? Is that true or is this overwhelming prior service?

 

[85SugarVol]

Yeah, I caught on to that BS almost immediately that night......

Of course, he still believes that eventhough they admitted they lied when they said they didnt deny requests for more manpower....

Was in here just the other night declaring posts about to be lies!

 

[gcbvol]

Here’s something I’m ignorant about. I’m aware of military training for air traffic control and as a former command post controller, I know a decent amount of them.

I’m assuming there is some kind of schooling on the civilian side for this? Is that true or is this overwhelming prior service?

I'm interested, too. I've read where school/training can take up to 3 years, but that seems high. I do know it takes special people/cognitive ability to do the job. You can't just train anyone to do it.

 

[Vol737]

Would the Army craft have had TCAS though?

Possibly, but don’t know what equipment package the military contracts for. American RJ would have. It’s possible the angle of the helo relative to the RJ may not have allowed to the RJ system to pick it up. Have to see what the data recorders tell us.

 

[Majors]

At least he was doing something about it, unlike his predecessors.

He failed, he just failed less. That isn’t a worthy of an “at least”.

 

[EasternVol]

Well incompotence vs negligence is simply dependent on the standards you set. Anyone want to hazard a guess when the standards were lowered and by whom?

Maybe it wasn't negligence or incompetence by the flight crew or ATC. Maybe a bad altimeter or other factor was in play, although it seems they would have noticed a significant difference in altitude. Or not. Anyway, it's good to confirm actual incompetence before making accusations of it.

 

[Tri-CitiesVol]

Here’s something I’m ignorant about. I’m aware of military training for air traffic control and as a former command post controller, I know a decent amount of them.

I’m assuming there is some kind of schooling on the civilian side for this? Is that true or is this overwhelming prior service?

The FAA Academy is in Oklahoma City. I’m not sure the numbers, but a decent portion of controllers are prior military, particularly on the Terminal (Tower) side. They also hire from off the street bids and I believe students who complete a special standardized CTI curriculum in college can even go straight to a facility and skip the academy.

The en-route academy is about four months long with about a 65% pass rate. Those who are successful choose from a list of Centers across the country. Some are busier or more complex than others. 70-80% of those trainees are fully successful and get certified. The on the job training process averages 2-3 years. Through attrition of unsuccessful students, retirements/medical disqualifications, and length of training the academy comes nowhere close to pumping out enough students to reach staffing goals.

The terminal side of the academy is a little shorter with a higher success rate. Those students start at a lower level facility and try to work their way up to higher facilities if they want more pay/more of a challenge or to someplace closer to home if they prioritize that. The movement process is seriously jacked up because of how poor staffing is at most facilities so controllers get stuck somewhere they are unhappy. This leads to some resigning or extra stressors at home.

A majority of ATC facilities I imagine have people working 6 day weeks and often 10 hour days especially in the summer. I averaged over 300 hours of OT the past three years. It can get brutal.

 

[EasternVol]

Pete actually increased ATC hiring unlike Mrs. Mitch McConnell (Elaine Chao)....

The main reason Chao was hired wasnt her experience but because she was f***ing Mitch McConnell.

And because that job really helped her business interests.

 

[gcbvol]

He failed, he just failed less. That isn’t a worthy of an “at least”.

Fair. But do you see why trying to put it all on him is silly, though?

 

[EasternVol]

Then stick with that so you don’t look like a piece of **** saying an Army aviator purposefully took out an airline full of people.

I think it was someone else who said it was intentional.