Dear Romney and McCain

#76
#76
oklavol said:
So discussing a candidate's background and his competence in a previous position he had (as a pilot) is off limits? Corporations do it every day for people they interview but were not suppose to discuss McCain's who wants to hold the highest position in the country?
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Did the company that hired you ask if you ever had a car wreck? If you anyone ever helped you get a job? If you ever left the fries in oil too long?
 
#77
#77
oklavol said:
I don't know if this is true or not, but Savage made it sound like McCain is the one who accidently fired the rocket.
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He fired it into his own plane?

The fact that this is speculation and twisted/partial truths used to criticize McCain proves my point. There is a huge difference between assessing qualifications and attempting to trash someone's reputation.
 
#78
#78
oklavol said:
Then as a pilot he sunk the carrier he was on and destroyed three of his own planes in accidents before he was ever shot down.

McCain lost FIVE US Aircrafts
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he didn't "sink" the aircraft carrier he was on.

McCain's fourth aircraft loss occurred July 29, 1967, soon after he was assigned to the USS Forrestal as an A-4 Skyhawk pilot. While seated in the cockpit of his aircraft waiting his turn for takeoff, an accidently fired rocket slammed into McCain's plane. He escaped from the burning aircraft, but the explosions that followed killed 134 sailors, destroyed at least 20 aircraft, and threatened to sink the ship
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doesn't appear that this incident was his fault.

McCain's fifth loss happened during his 23rd mission over North Vietnam on Oct. 26, 1967, when McCain's A-4 Skyhawk was shot down by a surface-to-air missile. McCain ejected from the plane breaking both arms and a leg in the process and subsequently parachuted into Truc Bach Lake near Hanoi.
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yep, he knew where that SAM was going to be and flew directly into it's path.

only two of the incidents in that article could be considered poor judgement calls on McCain. The remaining flameout and crash really could happen to anybody and if the relight procedure failed three times, what else was he supposed to do?
 
#80
#80
oklavol said:
What Savage was bringing up is this. That McCain wasn't competent as a pilot, he was accident prone. Maybe he's not competent in other areas either. McCain wasn't recommended to become a pilot, but his father the admiral pulled strings so he could be.

Then as a pilot he sunk the carrier he was on and destroyed three of his own planes in accidents before he was ever shot down.

I did a search and came up with similar info here:

McCain lost FIVE US Aircrafts
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That might be one of the most slanted hit pieces that I've ever read . . . and I think McCain is a jerk.

Look at the title of the website. :ermm:
 
#82
#82
therealUT said:
I have no other option here but to drop to the level of name calling. You are certainly showing exactly how little anyone should ever pay attention to what you have to say. Heck, using your logic, any soldier who has a couple Purple Hearts should be treated as incompetent and reckless instead of courageous and heroic.

Please, let this issue fizzle out before I have to get really p*ssed off.
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From what I can tell you don't pay any attention to anyone else's opinion but your own. Every presidential candidate who has ever run has had his background scrutinized. Why would you think McCain's would be any different.
 
#83
#83
oklavol said:
From what I can tell you don't pay any attention to anyone else's opinion but your own. Every presidential candidate who has ever run has had his background scrutinized. Why would you think McCain's would be any different.
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that's funny. JFK didn't seem to have a very public history until well after his death.
 
#84
#84
volinbham said:
He fired it into his own plane?

The fact that this is speculation and twisted/partial truths used to criticize McCain proves my point. There is a huge difference between assessing qualifications and attempting to trash someone's reputation.
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He fired into the carrier while sitting on it and the shrapnel from the explosion damaged his own plane. That how it sounded to me.
 
#85
#85
oklavol said:
From what I can tell you don't pay any attention to anyone else's opinion but your own. Every presidential candidate who has ever run has had his background scrutinized. Why would you think McCain's would be any different.
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Backgrounds should be scrutinized, but it's pretty instructive that after 25 years of running for public office, this suddenly became a lot more important and the stories became more sensational
 
#86
#86
oklavol said:
From what I can tell you don't pay any attention to anyone else's opinion but your own. Every presidential candidate who has ever run has had his background scrutinized. Why would you think McCain's would be any different.
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I am staunchly opposed to having McCain in the White House. However, that does not mean I am going to perpetuate any kind of slander related to his extremely distinguished military service. Look in to the great pilots in the history of our military and see how many crashes they were in. Chuck Yeager, Paul T. Gillcrist, and the like lived through plenty of crashes.
 
#88
#88
oklavol said:
He fired into the carrier while sitting on it and the shrapnel from the explosion damaged his own plane. That how it sounded to me.
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how did you get that out of

While seated in the cockpit of his aircraft waiting his turn for takeoff, an accidently fired rocket slammed into McCain's plane.
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#89
#89
oklavol said:
He fired into the carrier while sitting on it and the shrapnel from the explosion damaged his own plane. That how it sounded to me.
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so you believe he did this, sunk a carrier, yet flew more missions over Vietnam?
 
#91
#91
oklavol said:
He fired into the carrier while sitting on it and the shrapnel from the explosion damaged his own plane. That how it sounded to me.
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While seated in the cockpit of his aircraft waiting his turn for takeoff, an accidently fired rocket slammed into McCain's plane. He escaped from the burning aircraft, but the explosions that followed killed 134 sailors, destroyed at least 20 aircraft, and threatened to sink the ship.
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This specifically says a rocket hit his plane, that set off further explosions, etc. Nowhere does it say he fired it. Nowhere does it say he was hit by shrapnel.

I don't see how you conclude that it was shrapnel from a rocket he fired.
 
#93
#93
BigPapaVol said:
so you believe he did this, sunk a carrier, yet flew more missions over Vietnam?
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I have mixed feelings about it. But the point Savage was trying to make was, he probably should not have been given a slot for pilot training, and after receiving it anyone else except and Admiral's son would have probably been grounded.
 
#94
#94
volinbham said:
This specifically says a rocket hit his plane, that set off further explosions, etc. Nowhere does it say he fired it. Nowhere does it say he was hit by shrapnel.

I don't see how you conclude that it was shrapnel from a rocket he fired.
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I'm talking about the description Savage gave on the radio show not what was given there.
 
#96
#96
While I don't view the Wiki as the bastion of unvarnished truth, here's it's account of the incident. At least it is sourced.

By now a Lieutenant Commander, McCain was again almost killed in action on July 29, 1967 while serving on the Forrestal, operating at Yankee Station in the Gulf of Tonkin. The crew was preparing to launch attacks when a Zuni rocket from an F-4 Phantom was accidentally fired across the carrier's deck. The rocket struck McCain's A-4E Skyhawk as the jet was preparing for launch.[31][32] The impact ruptured the Skyhawk's fuel tank, which ignited the fuel and knocked two bombs loose. McCain escaped from his jet by climbing out of the cockpit, working himself to the nose of the jet, and jumping off its refueling probe onto the burning deck of the aircraft carrier. Ninety seconds after the impact, one of the bombs exploded underneath his airplane. McCain was struck in the legs and chest by shrapnel. The ensuing fire killed 132 sailors, injured 62 others, destroyed at least 20 aircraft, and took 24 hours to control.[33]
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According to this, he was an innocent bystander and near fatality.
 
#97
#97
oklavol said:
I'm talking about the description Savage gave on the radio show not what was given there.
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It takes about 20 seconds of research to determine that McCain didn't fire the rocket . . .

The crew was preparing to launch attacks when a Zuni rocket from an F-4 Phantom was accidentally fired across the carrier's deck. The rocket struck McCain's A-4E Skyhawk as the jet was preparing for launch.[31][32] The impact ruptured the Skyhawk's fuel tank, which ignited the fuel and knocked two bombs loose. McCain escaped from his jet by climbing out of the cockpit, working himself to the nose of the jet, and jumping off its refueling probe onto the burning deck of the aircraft carrier. Ninety seconds after the impact, one of the bombs exploded underneath his airplane. McCain was struck in the legs and chest by shrapnel. The ensuing fire killed 132 sailors, injured 62 others, destroyed at least 20 aircraft, and took 24 hours to control.[33]
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#98
#98
oklavol said:
I have mixed feelings about it. But the point Savage was trying to make was, he probably should not have been given a slot for pilot training, and after receiving it anyone else except and Admiral's son would have probably been grounded.
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and the relevance to the presidency? His flight aptitude and aerial SA were weak, so he's unqualified to be the Chief Exec?
 
#99
#99
oklavol said:
He fired into the carrier while sitting on it and the shrapnel from the explosion damaged his own plane. That how it sounded to me.
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no, that's not how it happened. A zuni rocket attached to an F-4 phantom misfired due to an electrical malfunction. The missile slammed into McCain's plane, shearing off the wing and rupturing the fuel tank.

take it for what it's worth, but the Wikipedia article on the USS Forrestal is quite clear that this was an accident.

Had this been McCain's fault, not even his father and grandfather could have saved his career.
 
#100
#100
Could we please start discussing Immigration, Tax policy and S & L's so I can get back to bashing McCain legitimately? :crazy:
 
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