Death penalty

#51
#51
lawgator1 said:
If I go find the answer, those that want to will believe it, those that don't won't.

Let me remind you, however, that the cost of executing someone is more than the task of doing so -- its the expense of the appeals over ten years or so, etc., where the big money gets spent.
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Is that where it is? We hire people to work appeals for these people...or people that have already been hired work appeals for these people?
 
#52
#52
KB5252 said:
I knew the appeals would be a large expense and I remember hearing a while back how expensive it was and I was surprised. I still wonder about the breakdown between the two. Why does the appeals process cost tax payers so much money LG?
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allvol123 said:
Is that where it is? We hire people to work appeals for these people...or people that have already been hired work appeals for these people?
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It depends on where in the process you are talking about. Take Florida, for example. If a person is convicted and sentenced to death in Florida, a significant amount of money will likely have been spent by both the state and the public defender in expert reviews of everything from the crime scene to any issue related to the defendant's mental health (and that can be quite elaborate, depending).

On top of that, you will have several years worth of what you might call the direct appeal, and that is an appeal to the Florida Supreme Court. The written opinions in those cases can be a hundred pages long, going over every evidentiary issue and argument raised. The case can typically be before that Court for several years.

In the meantime, the now-prisoner might seek some sort of re-opening of the case, for things like DNA evidence or claims of prosecutorial misconduct. That can go on in the trial court, then back up to the state supreme court.

Once all that is done, the prisoner then begins an entirely new set of appeals called the collateral appeals process and the state has several officers around Florida that do nothing but represent death row inmates as they attack the process of conviction, sentencing and appeal, from outside the process itself. Typically, this involves a series of appeals based on arguments that the original process was flawed and that usually means an argument of incompetent counsel. An example is that your lawyer did not raise an issue he could have and so you are entitled to a new trial or sentencing based on that issue. That is all at tax payer expense and they have a budget and lawyers and what not to do that task.

Then, assuming all that goes the state's way, there will be federal appeals, largely on the same issues. And those, as we all know, typically involve an application to the U.S. Supreme Court for stay of execution at the 11th hour, followed by a full-blown appeal to them.

I have had only the slightest involvement in a capital case and believe me when I say they plod along and even my little involvement (a public records issue well after conviction) took up plenty of my time (for which I was paid) plus the time of staff at the agency, the judge and his staff, and the staff of the state attorney and the collateral appeals attorney.

And that was a tiny sliver of the case.
 
#53
#53
So people getting life in prison don't use the appeals process to their full advantage? I know very little about it but are you saying a person given the death penalty has more appeals than one put in jail for life? Seems like that cost is a wash
 
#54
#54
Also, as I tried to imply, the lawyers are already being paid. I would think state attorneys get a salary, they're not billing the taxpaxer hourly. Also, let us not forget the super troopers like the Southern Law Poverty Center that kick in their help that does not come from the taxpayer. It is just not reasonable to think that it costs more to put someone to death than it does to sustain them for 50 years on the public dollar.
 
#55
#55
utvolpj said:
So people getting life in prison don't use the appeals process to their full advantage? I know very little about it but are you saying a person given the death penalty has more appeals than one put in jail for life? Seems like that cost is a wash
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Oh God, no. The amount spent appealing a capital sentence dwarfs the amount spent on other cases involving similar crimes. In other words, yes, death penalty cases have their own set of appeals and claims and hearing, etc.
 
#56
#56
Let's take a step back and assess the situation.

You have someone who has committed heinous crimes -- assuming the verdict was accurate and the punishment fair, although there are many cases (like Daryl Hunt) where innocent people are indeed put on death row. But for those true criminals of heinous crimes, they've sacrificed their ability to live a free life. You can either kill them, or keep them jailed.

I don't like either of these options, personally.

I don't like the idea of killing people who have killed others - two wrongs don't make amends for the original crime (I think we've advanced beyond 'an eye for an eye' mentality). Nor do I like the idea of paying for a criminal to eat, sleep, lift weights, read in their cell, etc. for an extended period of time. That doesn't do us any good.

But perhaps I would feel better if they actually worked full days everyday doing something that would benefit society. Like picking up trash. Or painting public buildings. Or cleaning up the roads. Or processing documents. Or whatever the hell needs to be done.

They've sacrificed their ability to live the life they want to live - we might as well get something out of them.
 
#57
#57
TennNC said:
Let's take a step back and assess the situation.

You have someone who has committed heinous crimes -- assuming the verdict was accurate and the punishment fair, although there are many cases (like Daryl Hunt) where innocent people are indeed put on death row. But for those true criminals of heinous crimes, they've sacrificed their ability to live a free life. You can either kill them, or keep them jailed.

I don't like either of these options, personally.

I don't like the idea of killing people who have killed others - two wrongs don't make amends for the original crime (I think we've advanced beyond 'an eye for an eye' mentality). Nor do I like the idea of paying for a criminal to eat, sleep, lift weights, read in their cell, etc. for an extended period of time. That doesn't do us any good.

But perhaps I would feel better if they actually worked full days everyday doing something that would benefit society. Like picking up trash. Or painting public buildings. Or cleaning up the roads. Or processing documents. Or whatever the hell needs to be done.

They've sacrificed their ability to live the life they want to live - we might as well get something out of them.
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Take the biblical stance... an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.

Compensation to the victim....... compensation for the worth of the tooth or the eye.......
 
#58
#58
TennNC said:
But perhaps I would feel better if they actually worked full days everyday doing something that would benefit society. Like picking up trash. Or painting public buildings. Or cleaning up the roads. Or processing documents. Or whatever the hell needs to be done.
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As they remain free to commit more heinous crimes? Interesting.
 
#59
#59
kev20 said:
As they remain free to commit more heinous crimes? Interesting.
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Ummm. No, not free. They go back to their cells at night and are under tight, armed supervision wherever they "work." Modern day chain gangs, if you will.

thought that was obvious.
 
#60
#60
OrangeEmpire said:
Take the biblical stance... an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.

Compensation to the victim....... compensation for the worth of the tooth or the eye.......
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Are you saying that any money they "earn" would go toward the victim's family? I don't know exactly if that would work, but it's an interesting thought at least.

I know it works that way with certain white-collar crimes - where the criminals must pay back the victims over time with whatever income they bring in.
 
#61
#61
There is not a man alive that should decide the fate of another human being. NO ONE

I would love to see a guy like that get fried, but that is not for any of us to decide. It's Gods, ONLY God
 
#62
#62
TennNC said:
Ummm. No, not free. They go back to their cells at night and are under tight, armed supervision wherever they "work." Modern day chain gangs, if you will.

thought that was obvious.
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Oh, you said you didn't like the idea of keeping them jailed. Didn't see where you implied that they would still be incarcerated.
 
#63
#63
TennNC said:
Are you saying that any money they "earn" would go toward the victim's family? I don't know exactly if that would work, but it's an interesting thought at least.

I know it works that way with certain white-collar crimes - where the criminals must pay back the victims over time with whatever income they bring in.
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I believe this is the major difference between civil and criminal cases.
 
#64
#64
VolsByNature said:
There is not a man alive that should decide the fate of another human being. NO ONE

I would love to see a guy like that get fried, but that is not for any of us to decide. It's Gods, ONLY God
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Then you do not read the same Bible that I do.
If the death penalty is a law. God commands, and I do believe, expects us to obey it.
As stated before, death as a government acceptable punishment, is NOT murder. If it should be a government approved punishment is another arguement.
 
#65
#65
KB5252 said:
I agree it may make some reconsider but the public perception would be terrible and it would likely spurn legislation to do away with the death penalty in the end.
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That is exactly what is wrong with America. We are becoming soft. It should be common knowledge to most everyone that when you intentionatly and violently take something as precious as a life, you forfeit your own.
 
#67
#67
T-TownVol said:
Then you do not read the same Bible that I do.
If the death penalty is a law. God commands, and I do believe, expects us to obey it.
As stated before, death as a government acceptable punishment, is NOT murder. If it should be a government approved punishment is another arguement.
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Very well said...
 
#71
#71
People against the death penalty must work to change the law...just as abortion opponents must work to change that law.
 
#72
#72
tnvolsfan85 said:
That brings up a whole other topic!
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I'm just posting to what I've read on here. There's been mention that capital punishment is murder according to the sixth commandment and judges and lawyers will have blood on their hands.

Abortion is the same thing....... MURDER. There will also be blood on the hands of those involved with this as well. Mom's, dad's, doctor's, lawyer's, and politician's.
 
#75
#75
RockyTopVol said:
I'm just posting to what I've read on here. There's been mention that capital punishment is murder according to the sixth commandment and judges and lawyers will have blood on their hands.

Abortion is the same thing....... MURDER. There will also be blood on the hands of those involved with this as well. Mom's, dad's, doctor's, lawyer's, and politician's.
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Oh no...I agree totally that abortion is MURDER...

When I mentioned to commandment I simply was wanting someone else's opinion on that.
 
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