Debt Limit Bottom Line

#201
#201
droski said:
how are business owners sandbagging? i assure you that the average business owner wants to make as much money as possible. gibbs himself as president isn't going to stop them from hiring people if they think there is profit to be made.

even a technical default would cause a 20% drop in the stock market. no one president is that stupid. worst case is we delay raising it officially another month.
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Again, can't prove it, I know, but when I hear leaders of business owners and the like on TV or radio lately, talking about tough times, and why they're not hiring, I don't hear about specific things, taxes, regulations, etc. that are in their way, the first thing that always comes out of their mouths every single time I've ever heard them is "We've got a president who's not business friendly so we're waiting to get some more help" or something along those lines.

Deep down I know they're not, but it damn sure does give the impression that a lot of people are sandbagging just because BO is in office.
 
#202
#202
tigervol9802 said:
I've reached the point where I'm fine with there being give and take on both sides to fix some long-term problems, including small tax increases as long as there is reciprocal legitimate spending cuts.

The problem is I'm not sure there is a single person in Washington with the guts to a) propose such a thing, and b) implement it.
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I've said all along I could live with this - just don't see it happening this time around.
 
#203
#203
volinbham said:
Schumer and others say entitlements are off the table (how that's not considered as intransigent as Reps on taxes I don't know).

A recent Dem election committee memo shows that Dems are playing as much politics with entitlements as Reps are accused of doing with taxes. For some reason only the Reps are the bad guys here.
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Obama says everything is on the table and he has offered up cuts in all of these programs to get a grand deal on the big picture. Quoting Schumer or someone else from a year ago or whatever isn't really all that relevant anymore. Obama is driving the Dem side of the show, now, and they'll do what he tells them.

We need someone with some meaningful control over on the GOP side, who doesn't have to keep coming back to the negotiating table two days later to sheepishly say "Aw shucks, Mr. President, turns out that deal I thought we could do, well, guess I really can't."

Boehner is the problem. He's weak. He needs to remind the TP who's boss and run 'em over.
 
#204
#204
milohimself said:
Again, can't prove it, I know, but when I hear leaders of business owners and the like on TV or radio lately, talking about tough times, and why they're not hiring, I don't hear about specific things, taxes, regulations, etc. that are in their way, the first thing that always comes out of their mouths every single time I've ever heard them is "We've got a president who's not business friendly so we're waiting to get some more help" or something along those lines.

Deep down I know they're not, but it damn sure does give the impression that a lot of people are sandbagging just because BO is in office.
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would you hire in the economic climate? i sure as hell wouldn't.
 
#205
#205
volinbham said:
Haven't seen the rhetoric? They are saying Rs want to intentionally destroy the economy!

Obama is saying Rs want to screw seniors, kids and everyone in between.

They've been called Hezbollah, terrorists and worst.

It's absolutely ridiculous.
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I have heard that, and again, I recognize the Dems are highly entrenched. I will repeat that as many times as necessary.

But there is a substantial difference between one group demonizing another, and another group pledging that under no circumstance will they ever do something.

Political suicide for Dems to agree to significant cuts to entitlements, nearly all of the Republicans have vowed to vote down any tax increase no matter the circumstance. Most of them won elections on this.
 
#206
#206
volinbham said:
I've said all along I could live with this - just don't see it happening this time around.
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I don't know if I could see it given current political climate. Either concession would infuriate the "base" of each side, maybe 10-15% total, even though it's probably the best thing for the other 80-85% of the country.

Don't get me wrong, I fully believe the problem is spending, but this is a step by step solution to fix it, not overnight.
 
#207
#207
droski said:
i'll give you an example. real estate allows free exchanges of property (1031 exchange). no other investment allows that. i cannot sell one stock and buy another and not pay capital gains. a passive loss in real estate is deductable up to $25K a year for an individual. a passive loss in any other venture is not. and let's not forget depreciation expense for real estate. it's a racket. why doesn't obama fix that garbage rather than go after people who actually work for a living?
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Passive income is fun.

:rock:
 
#209
#209
VolsNSkinsFan said:
I agree w/ dorski

They could also drop the Mortgage Interest write off tax deduction to $500K or less from $1 Million. Its ridiculous that you can write off the interest on a Million $$ mortgage
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Actually $1.1.

And I agree 100%.

There's a ton of stuff in there you could change and get the end of day affect you want without raising rates if you really wanted to.
 
#210
#210
lawgator1 said:
Obama says everything is on the table and he has offered up cuts in all of these programs to get a grand deal on the big picture. Quoting Schumer or someone else from a year ago or whatever isn't really all that relevant anymore. Obama is driving the Dem side of the show, now, and they'll do what he tells them.

Everything is not on the table and this is Schumer and others' current position.


We need someone with some meaningful control over on the GOP side, who doesn't have to keep coming back to the negotiating table two days later to sheepishly say "Aw shucks, Mr. President, turns out that deal I thought we could do, well, guess I really can't."

Boehner is the problem. He's weak. He needs to remind the TP who's boss and run 'em over.
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Obama has less control over the Dem side than you seem to recognize.

Leading Senate Democrat Says Benefit Cuts To Medicare And Medicaid Are Off The Table In Debt Ceiling Negotiations

Schumer's statement came as a blow to President Barack Obama, who called for an examination of entitlement spending to be combined with tax increases, in a press conference Wednesday.
The move also costs Democrats the high-ground of asserting that everything is "on the table" in deficit reduction talks — they have relentlessly criticized Republicans for refusing to negotiate on a deal including tax increases.
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#211
#211
tigervol9802 said:
Actually $1.1.

And I agree 100%.

There's a ton of stuff in there you could change and get the end of day affect you want without raising rates if you really wanted to.
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Agree but GOP will not agree to it. That would be a tax increase per the tea party.
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#212
#212
droski said:
would you hire in the economic climate? i sure as hell wouldn't.
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I am.

BUT I am in a business where we export a good portion of our product. If we were as dependent on domestic economic health as many... we might have shuttered the doors by now.

We hire because it is justified by our business level. We have the work. We have the margins/revenues (SIDENOTE TO GIBBS, LG, AND OTHER LIBS: you only hire people when you have sufficient margins to justify it... IOW's, PROFIT drives employment... not consumption or even demand). We can write them a check that won't bounce and have a reasonable prospect of keeping them on long term. That's what all businesses do. The calculation isn't political though politicians can certainly change the factors in the calculation.

What Milo quoted is short hand for... this president is trying to raise taxes, HAS increased regulatory harassment/costs, is meddling with 1/7th of the economy in a major way, has watched fuel prices rise after having previously said that fuel prices should rise, has a stated purpose of "fundamentally transforming the country"... Obama's actions and words provide all the uncertainty that many need to hold off hiring people as long as possible.
 
#213
#213
Gramps said:
Agree but GOP will not agree to it. That would be a tax increase per the tea party.
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I am not involved with any TP group but share the major ideas... I suspect that many TPer's including myself would rally behind a simplification of the tax code that included a real cut in rates and reduction of deductions, special deals, and loopholes.

It isn't the TP that would oppose this. Dems for years have used special deals in tax legislation to favor supporters and home district businesses. Most of this stuff was written in during the 40 years Dems held the House.

The complexity of the tax code empowers Dems. Their friends get deals. Everyone else gets torqued... much like the Obamacare exemptions.

And yes... Republicans have done some of this too... but nowhere near the level of Dems.

Politicians have also used the tax code to manipulate the economy and even our personal choices. That needs to end.

I can virtually guarantee that the TP would support a program that "fundamentally transformed" the tax code to make it flatter, more transparent, more "blind" in its effects, and more simple. We could keep it "progressive" by limiting specific and total deductions and significantly increasing personal standard deductions so that the marginal income of "the rich" cannot be hidden behind gimmicks. Many deductions need to be eliminated completely. All deductions and favors written to narrowly benefit a small number of filers need to be eliminated.

I greatly favor the FAIR tax over any income tax system... but a flatter, simpler tax would get my support.
 
#214
#214
sjt18 said:
I am not involved with any TP group but share the major ideas... I suspect that many TPer's including myself would rally behind a simplification of the tax code that included a real cut in rates and reduction of deductions, special deals, and loopholes.

It isn't the TP that would oppose this. Dems for years have used special deals in tax legislation to favor supporters and home
district businesses. Most of this stuff was written in during the 40 years Dems held the House.
The complexity of the tax code empowers Dems. Their friends get deals. Everyone else gets torqued... much like the Obamacare exemptions.
And yes... Republicans have done some of this too... but nowhere near the level of Dems.
Politicians have also used the tax code to manipulate the economy and even our
personal choices. That needs to end
I can virtually guarantee that the TP would support a program that "fundamentally transformed" the tax code to make it flatter, more transparent, more "blind" in its effects,
and more simple. We could keep it "progressive" by limiting specific and total deductions and significantly increasing personal standard deductions so that the marginal income of "the rich" cannot be hidden behind gimmicks. Many deductions need to be eliminated completely. All deductions and favors written to narrowly benefit a small number of filers need to be eliminated.

I greatly favor the FAIR tax over any income tax system... but a flatter, simpler tax would get my support.
Click to expand...

Excellent points. I also favor the Fair tax.

My commit about the GOP and tea party is based on Grover Norquist. From what I understand the majority have signed the pledge not to raise ANY taxes. Dropping the mortgage deduction on homes with mortgages over $500,000 would be a tax increase per Grover Norquist.
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#215
#215
Gramps said:
Excellent points. I also favor the Fair tax.

My commit about the GOP and tea party is based on Grover Norquist. From what I understand the majority have signed the pledge not to raise ANY taxes. Dropping the mortgage deduction on homes with mortgages over $500,000 would be a tax increase per Grover Norquist.
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I disagree with Mr Norquist.

IF... they would simplify the code and on paper just try to achieve revenue neutrality... it would spur economic growth and increase net revenues. We've seen that under both Clinton and Reagan though I believe Reagan was actually trying to effect a net cut in taxes.
 
#216
#216
The debt ceiling rhetoric is so full of BS that the
government shoul issue a floatation device, a mask
and a snorkel for the average citizen to get through
it.

We have ample revenue coming in to pay all entitlements
and service the national debt.

Obama's claim that we can't continue to pay SS is BS.

Geithners claim that we will difault on debt service is
more pure BS.

plante.jpg
 
#218
#218
Warren Buffet said that Berkshire Hathaway owes $5billion in taxes due in September and they would pay the tax early to make sure SS would be paid. He said other corps would step up and pay early b/c it would be a good pr move
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#219
#219
VolsNSkinsFan said:
Warren Buffet said that Berkshire Hathaway owes $5billion in taxes due in September and they would pay the tax early to make sure SS would be paid. He said other corps would step up and pay early b/c it would be a good pr move
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You must have missed gibbsy's claim that no corporations pay income tax.

Interesting he is basically undermining Obama on this.
 
#220
#220
WE DO NOT NEED AN INCOME TAX. If we eliminated the income tax, government would collect the same amount of revenue it was collecting 11 years ago. Government is growing much too fast.

Cutting spending is the key to balancing the budget. If we raise taxes we'll just find new ways to spend money (if the raise in taxes actually increases tax revenue).
 
#221
#221
VolsNSkinsFan said:
Warren Buffet said that Berkshire Hathaway owes $5billion in taxes due in September and they would pay the tax early to make sure SS would be paid. He said other corps would step up and pay early b/c it would be a good pr move
Posted via VolNation Mobile
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I love how Warren Buffet complains that he doesn't pay enough in taxes. If he really feels that strongly about it, the US government is accepting donations.

https://www.pay.gov/paygov/
 
#222
#222
Looks like an agreement is in the works... McConnell and Boehner are willing to allow the debt ceiling to be raised with no spending cuts and now Reid has put together a committee together to put in some spending cuts to appease the GOP


"Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., suggested the panel to Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Ky., as a way to make a debt-ceiling proposal McConnell made Tuesday more palatable to reluctant Republicans, officials of both parties told The Washington Post. Congress and the president are heading toward an Aug. 2 deadline for raising the debt ceiling, now at $14.3 trillion, or the country starts defaulting on its obligations.

The details of Reid's plan were still being worked out, but the new joint House-Senate committee would have Democratic and Republican lawmakers, and their enforceable budget-cutting plan could be fast-tracked to a vote in each chamber, the officials told the Post."

Thoughts

Reid's idea to sweeten McConnell's plan - UPI.com
 
#223
#223
nbakerld said:
WE DO NOT NEED AN INCOME TAX. If we eliminated the income tax, government would collect the same amount of revenue it was collecting 11 years ago. Government is growing much too fast.

Cutting spending is the key to balancing the budget. If we raise taxes we'll just find new ways to spend money (if the raise in taxes actually increases tax revenue).
Click to expand...

Agree cutting spending in the key.

Starting to disagree on a national sales tax being practical.
 
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