Delta Variant

[Septic]

There’s literally a post just a few above ours from a doc at a press conference saying “we’re either going to get vaccinated or accept death…and LOTS of it”. So be honest, do you find that statement to be remotely honest or accurate when looking at the actual statistics? It’s horse sh**. I don’t care if people want to get vaccinated, go for it. I also don’t care if people don’t want to get vaccinated or if they don’t want to walk around wearing a mask. But I’m tired of the fear mongering and “guidelines” with no basis in reality.

"we will all die" is distinctly different from having to “we’re either going to get vaccinated or accept death.”

 

[volinbham]

"we will all die" is distinctly different from having to “we’re either going to get vaccinated or accept death.”

the woman in question specifically said - "if you don't choose the vaccine you are choosing death" watch until the end of the video.

 

[kiddiedoc]

Any of y'all blaming the risk of mutations and variants on unvaccinated Americans check the country of origin for this variant?

 

[VolStrom]

Any of y'all blaming the risk of mutations and variants on unvaccinated Americans check the country of origin for this variant?

Don't go bringing logic into the argument.

 

[Septic]

the woman in question specifically said - "if you don't choose the vaccine you are choosing death" watch until the end of the video.

That physician, at a minimum, worded that poorly - but understood her to say in very broad terms and definitely not literally - that is we (as a society) don't get vaccinated, more people will die. If that's not what she meant, it's flat fear mongering at worst. I didn't equate what she said as "we WILL ALL die."

 

[InVOLuntary]

Any of y'all blaming the risk of mutations and variants on unvaccinated Americans check the country of origin for this variant?

We could get 100% vaccinated in the US and still not eliminate Covid.

 

[Septic]

Any of y'all blaming the risk of mutations and variants on unvaccinated Americans check the country of origin for this variant?

Who did that? I thought it was pretty widely reported that the Delta variant was of Indian origin.

 

[kiddiedoc]

Maybe I can help you understand. This virus much like the flu virus mutates if it has many hosts to spread between. Today’s vaccines that about 1/2 of adults in the US have taken were designed for the original Covid virus. That Virus has already mutated into the Delta variant which is currently thought to be more aggressive and deadly than the original variant. Fortunately, the existing vaccines are proving to be fairly effective against the Delta variant also. If 1/2 of the country remains as viable hosts from being unvaccinated then the virus is likely to continue to mutate with the real possibility a future variant won’t be effected by the current vaccines. Then the entire nation would have to start over with a new vaccine (assuming one will be created in a timely manner). Without hosts to spread between the virus won’t be nearly as likely to mutate. Hope this helps.

Literally, almost every single point in the above is actually incorrect.

 

[MAD]

Any of y'all blaming the risk of mutations and variants on unvaccinated Americans check the country of origin for this variant?

You might be confused, pretty sure everyone knows where the current variants originated.
United Kingdom (Alpha) variant
South Africa (Beta) variant
Brazil (Gamma) variant
India (Delta) variant

 

[kiddiedoc]

You might be confused, pretty sure everyone knows where the current variants originated.
United Kingdom (Alpha) variant
South Africa (Beta) variant
Brazil (Gamma) variant
India (Delta) variant

Exactly. Then, why the rhetoric about unvaccinated Americans endangering the world with mutations?

With our case numbers/seropositive rate + vaccinations, we might be the least likely place in the world for a variant to emerge.

 

[kiddiedoc]

Food for thought: in which of the following populations is a variant least likely to appear and spread?

A) one that has seen very little CV19 transmission and a low vaccination rate

B) one that is largely vaccinated and protected against a single surface marker (original spike protein)

C) one with a high number of recovered cases and immunity that includes protection against several surface markers

 

[volinbham]

That physician, at a minimum, worded that poorly - but understood her to say in very broad terms and definitely not literally - that is we (as a society) don't get vaccinated, more people will die. If that's not what she meant, it's flat fear mongering at worst. I didn't equate what she said as "we WILL ALL die."

given her use of the word "you" I take her comment as if you do not get vaccinated you will die.

it is true that is not everyone will die but it's hard to hear it as anything but equating individual choice to get the vaccine directly linked to life or death of the chooser

 

[InVOLuntary]

Food for thought: in which of the following populations is a variant least likely to appear and spread?

A) one that has seen very little CV19 transmission and a low vaccination rate

B) one that is largely vaccinated and protected against a single surface marker (original spike protein)

C) one with a high number of recovered cases and immunity that includes protection against several surface markers

Dang! I wasn't prepared for a quiz.... my guess C. (Always guess C)

 

[volinbham]

Exactly. Then, why the rhetoric about unvaccinated Americans endangering the world with mutations?

With our case numbers/seropositive rate + vaccinations, we might be the least likely place in the world for a variant to emerge.

yes - the poster who provided an "explainer" implied it is likely that not only will the US be the source of a variant but a variant that will be vaccine resistant. no support for that contention.

 

[Septic]

given her use of the word "you" I take her comment as if you do not get vaccinated you will die.

it is true that is not everyone will die but it's hard to hear it as anything but equating individual choice to get the vaccine directly linked to life or death of the chooser

Ok?

So you chose to take her words literally, I heard it as being figurative and aimed at society.

Still, what she didn't say was, "We WILL ALL die" which would be hard to twist as being anything but literal.

 

[kiddiedoc]

One last point: we don't know how a virus will behave long-term in response to an mRNA vaccine that codes for a single protein. There is the possibility that this creates a selective advantage for a significant mutation in the sequence and leads to the emergence of a strain with an unrecognizable spike protein.

 

[Orange defense]

"we will all die" is distinctly different from having to “we’re either going to get vaccinated or accept death.”

We all are going to die anyways sooner or later. Bible told you that millions of years ago, or whenever it was??

 

[volinbham]

Ok?

So you chose to take her words literally, I heard it as being figurative and aimed at society.

Still, what she didn't say was, "We WILL ALL die" which would be hard to twist as being anything but literal.

I didn't claim that - someone else did.

I was pointing out that the headline of the tweet (more death coming) is different from her saying what she said at the end.

 

[wmcovol]

How do you figure that?

At first, Falsie said 1) it was nothing to worry about. 2) masks won’t work 3) Shut down entire country 4) then it was too early to reopen 5) wear 2 masks.

Next, our most vulnerable were infected intentionally in Governor run blue states immediately raising the death rates to scare Americans. Strange That NY, NJ, Conn, Mich & Pa all had serious death tolls in nursing homes yet Fla didn’t. Cuomo demanding Covid+ people be placed in nursing homes is the dumbest (unless it was intentional) act of this entire fiasco.

Followed by “nothing will work against it. Don’t try drugs already on the market & tested until we get vaccines” which studies show was a lie. Studies continue to come out about traditional drugs success treating it.

Then, the lie about the origin where they said it came from bats people ate. That is now proven to be a damn lie and one then knew was a lie when they told it. It came from a leak at a lab in China. Question is was it intentional? I think it was since China protected their country immediately before disclosing Covid to the rest of the world.

If you don’t think any of this was politically intentional that’s your right but it’s too much lying, intentional misinformation for me to feel it wasn’t.

 

[615vols]

"we will all die" is distinctly different from having to “we’re either going to get vaccinated or accept death.”

Quit playing dumb. You know the point I was making. They are using fear to play all of these people. In your other post you had no problem taking her statement, which was
“if you don't choose the vaccine you are choosing death" and letting us all know what “she surely meant to say”. You took those words and I quote “heard it as being figurative and aimed at society”, But mine you want to take 100% literal and try to make an argument out of it and avoid the actual point, which is that these doctors are pushing bullsh** fear porn. So what was your thought process on that? What made you decide her statement should be taken figuratively and mine literally?

 

[walkenvol]

So what you're saying because something like 75% of the world's population hasn't gotten vaccinated then we're screwed because it will mutate forever.

What I say doesn’t matter, listen to what the data and scientists say. We need to continue to eliminate potential hosts so the virus has less places to spread. The best way we know to do that is to vaccinate as many folks as possible, here and abroad. The good work done to date in the US will likely be undone if a large number of folks refuse the vaccines. Don’t listen to me, read the real data and listen to the folks educated in the field.

 

[Septic]

Quit playing dumb. You know the point I was making. They are using fear to play all of these people. In your other post you had no problem taking her statement, which was
“if you don't choose the vaccine you are choosing death" and letting us all know what “she surely meant to say”. You took those words and I quote “heard it as being figurative and aimed at society”, But mine you want to take 100% literal and try to make an argument out of it and avoid the actual point, which is that these doctors are pushing bullsh** fear porn. So what was your thought process on that? What made you decide her statement should be taken figuratively and mine literally?

Because what you said had both distinction and difference from what the physician said. You tried to dress it up by making it sound worse than it was, e.g. "we will, all die." Otherwise, you could have just cited her exact statement which was far more subjective than your very literal twist.

 

[walkenvol]

Like flu?
Could we irradiate fly by 100% of the population getting the flu vaccine?

I’m not an expert in the field and haven’t tried to read about the flu virus. My general understanding is the flu virus mutates rapidly, thus the need for a new flu shot each year.

 

[volinbham]

What I say doesn’t matter, listen to what the data and scientists say. We need to continue to eliminate potential hosts so the virus has less places to spread. The best way we know to do that is to vaccinate as many folks as possible, here and abroad. The good work done to date in the US will likely be undone if a large number of folks refuse the vaccines. Don’t listen to me, read the real data and listen to the folks educated in the field.

where are you seeing this?

 

[walkenvol]

the 1/2 vaccinated is supplemented by those who have immunity from prior infection.

it's why we aren't seeing a real wave of the Delta variant - yes cases are up from rates not seen since the early days of pandemic but the # of hosts has already been drastically reduced due to natural immunity and vaccinated people. Between those with one dose and natural immunity we are above 60% of the population resistant to infection.

as for the "real possibility" that some variant will emerge that won't be affected by current vaccines - do you have any data to support that claim? I'm sure it's possible but you state it as if it is a likelihood and I've seen nothing to suggest that is true.

Not sure how you expect there to be current data on future predictions made by the folks educated in the field of infectious diseases?

Also, it’s been widely published that immunities left in the body after recovering from being infected with the virus appear to have a relatively short shelf life so the 60% you referred to is not considered that high by the folks who know way more than myself.