Democratic Socialism

[AM64]

So every country funds their socialistic programs through capitalism?

China does, and capitalism through black markets always keeps communism afloat. Capitalism is always how communist countries rebound ... somebody will sell his or her soul, possessions, or government property for a meal. There are real stories of people buying Soviet fighter jets after the Soviet collapse, and they showed up with loaded weapons ... apparently just flown off a base somewhere. You probably wouldn't want a real accounting of the Soviet nuclear stockpile. Cuba (certainly post Castro and Soviet supports) is a perfect example. Some of it even state sponsored ... they sell Cuban manufactured doctors for income.

 

[C-south]

You are the one claiming you cannot accurately compare smaller economies/populations to ours. Where does that leave us?
I don't really buy your argument, but I'll go along with it.
Regardless, the US isn't far away from being the best example once the issues I listed are addressed.
Once we take care of healthcare, re-focus on the environment, and pass some needed regulations on a couple of industries, we will be about where we need to be.
It's an evolution.

As long as race baiting and victimhood is a business here it’s impossible to compare us to anywhere else.

 

[AM64]

I would be a hypocrite if I had any other stance. I have maintained since day one that Trump is a horrendously despicable human who should have never been nominated nor elected. That not only has not changed but intensified.
I will vote for the person I feel insures the best future for my kids, the country, and the world. That most assuredly will never be Trump.

If I had to choose between utter fool and hypocrite, I'd go with hypocrite; but keep on keeping on, Luther, and keep your ideals intact.

 

[McDad]

You are the one claiming you cannot accurately compare smaller economies/populations to ours. Where does that leave us?
I don't really buy your argument, but I'll go along with it.
Regardless, the US isn't far away from being the best example once the issues I listed are addressed.
Once we take care of healthcare, re-focus on the environment, and pass some needed regulations on a couple of industries, we will be about where we need to be.
It's an evolution.

Let's try this again. Take a breath. Relax. You see the bold sections? I am only asking questions on your thoughts. I am neither making claims nor making arguments. I doubt I will agree with your conclusions. I am still interested with your thought process and how you get there.

So, I will try one last time. Is the hybrid of Norapore a system that would scale up to our population size and diversity? Additionally, does that hybrid adequately address heatlhcare, environment, and needed regulation on the indicated industries?

 

[McDad]

Still didn't answer his question which I figured no one would.

No. But at least he is trying to give a current model to pattern after.

Norapore as a hybrid is a starting point.

 

[AM64]

As we should. Those Spanish bastards need to bend the knee!!!

Yeah, but think about it. We gave Cuba up and are paying daily for keeping Puerto Rico. We also gave up the Philippines, but they were pretty useful for a while. The only worthwhile thing left of that spat seems to be Guam.

 

[hog88]

No. But at least he is trying to give a current model to pattern after.

Norapore as a hybrid is a starting point.

I'm interested to know what he would combine and what he would discard from the two systems.

 

[AM64]

Bernie basically wants to institute a wealth tax on everyone worth $32mill or more.

5th Amendment:



How is that Constitutional? Who wants to live in a country where the gov't can take your private property? If it's Constitutional to take it from millionaires, it's Constitutional to take it from all of us.

Seriously, think about this for a minute and tell me if this is America

Not a problem. With all our lax tax laws protecting the rich and greedy, they'd never have amassed those fortunes, so they have it coming ... compensation can, therefore, easily be blown away. Look at old Joe Kennedy ... he made a fortune on bootlegging during Prohibition; his heirs deserve to pay.

 

[BowlBrother85]

Only in America do the Socialists have the hubris to demand increased spending on social safety nets when the country is underwater in debt.

All you social hawks need to get it through your thick skulls; we're broke!
Same goes for you military hawks, too.

Only in America, huh? Are you sure about that? If you really believe that, then you are not familiar with the economic crisis in Greece since 2009.

 

[luthervol]

Still didn't answer his question which I figured no one would.

I did, twice.
I said a blend of Norway and Singapore.
I then went on to say that we are close to the best example. Once we fix healthcare, re-institute some appropriate environmental policies, and better regulate a couple of industries....we'll be there.
It's an evolution.

Not liking an answer is not the same as no answer.

 

[AM64]

Does anybody else voice thinks Bernie's voice and hair goes along with his nutcase personality.

Yep. Liz pretty well fits the mold, too; but without any redeeming (comic) values. She's just a screeching pig.

 

[McDad]

I'm interested to know what he would combine and what he would discard from the two systems.

I suspect he is combining the free market of Singapore with the safety net of Norway. ...but that is only an assumption.

 

[luthervol]

Let's try this again. Take a breath. Relax. You see the bold sections? I am only asking questions on your thoughts. I am neither making claims nor making arguments. I doubt I will agree with your conclusions. I am still interested with your thought process and how you get there.

So, I will try one last time. Is the hybrid of Norapore a system that would scale up to our population size and diversity? Additionally, does that hybrid adequately address heatlhcare, environment, and needed regulation on the indicated industries?

Yes, it could certainly be scaled up to our population size and diversity.
Yes, it adequately addresses healthcare, environment, and needed regulation on the indicated industries.

 

[luthervol]

I'm interested to know what he would combine and what he would discard from the two systems.

It wouldn't be all that interesting.
Divert your fixation from Norapore to America. We are the example once we address healthcare etc....(I've said it 3 times and I'm getting tired of typing the same response over and over)

 

[hog88]

I did, twice.
I said a blend of Norway and Singapore.
I then went on to say that we are close to the best example. Once we fix healthcare, re-institute some appropriate environmental policies, and better regulate a couple of industries....we'll be there.
It's an evolution.

Not liking an answer is not the same as no answer.

Ok, expand please. What is fixing healthcare, what environmental policies need to be re-instituted and what industries need to be better regulated and what regulations do they need?

Also what abut Norway and Singapore needs to be blended?

 

[AM64]

Let's try this again. Take a breath. Relax. You see the bold sections? I am only asking questions on your thoughts. I am neither making claims nor making arguments. I doubt I will agree with your conclusions. I am still interested with your thought process and how you get there.

So, I will try one last time. Is the hybrid of Norapore a system that would scale up to our population size and diversity? Additionally, does that hybrid adequately address heatlhcare, environment, and needed regulation on the indicated industries?

I think you'd also have to consider that the Swedish model worked so well that Saab no longer builds cars ... just aircraft - largely military aircraft; and Volvo now belongs to the Chinese. Not sure what else they have to sell other than property.

 

[VolStrom]

I think you'd also have to consider that the Swedish model worked so well that Saab no longer builds cars ... just aircraft - largely military aircraft; and Volvo now belongs to the Chinese. Not sure what else they have to sell other than property.

You forgot meatballs and Ikea.

 

[McDad]

Only in America, huh? Are you sure about that? If you really believe that, then you are not familiar with the economic crisis in Greece since 2009.

Good reminder. Greece's debt to GDP ratio was stable at 100% for years. In 2009, it was 127%. Now it is closer to 180%. Ours is 107%.

I wonder if we really want to go down a similar path.

 

[luthervol]

Ok, expand please. What is fixing healthcare, what environmental policies need to be re-instituted and what industries need to be better regulated and what regulations do they need?

Also what abut Norway and Singapore needs to be blended?

Those questions can't be answered in a paragraph to either one of our satisfaction.

 

[AM64]

Only in America, huh? Are you sure about that? If you really believe that, then you are not familiar with the economic crisis in Greece since 2009.

That reminder although completely accurate and honest doesn't help your side in this argument. Governments promising people what you don't have and can't produce from thin air is a losing proposition.

 

[lukeneyland]

I don't understand how people can look at the world and see how inherently awful and abusive people can be, and think to themselves that a stronger more expansive government is the solution. It's not a Democrat or a Republican issue. They are almost all bad. Their leeches at best and tyrants at their worst

 

[hog88]

Those questions can't be answered in a paragraph to either one of our satisfaction.

Figured.

 

[37L1]

Those questions can't be answered in a paragraph to either one of our satisfaction.

I put your answer as 97.7% made up from your delirious world view. You couldn't answer if you wrote a book.

 

[McDad]

Yes, it could certainly be scaled up to our population size and diversity.
Yes, it adequately addresses healthcare, environment, and needed regulation on the indicated industries.

What are the policies from Norapore you like which address heathcare, environment and regulation?

 

[lukeneyland]

No, it's not. I have posted this before, but here it is again. The distinct and significant fundamental differences between socialism and communism are:

(1) Under communism, all economic resources are publicly owned and controlled by the government (comprised of officials who were not necessarily elected to their positions) and individuals hold no personal property or assets. Under socialism, individuals own personal property but all industrial and production capacity is communally owned and managed by a democratically elected government.

(2) Under communism, production is intended to meet all basic human needs and is distributed to the people at no charge. Under socialism, production is intended to meet individual and societal needs and distributed according to individual ability and contribution.

(3) Under communism, classes are abolished and the ability to earn more than other workers is almost non-existent. Under socialism, classes exist, although the differences are diminished. It is possible for some people to earn more than others.

(4) Under communism, religion is effectively abolished. Under socialism, freedom of religion is allowed.

There are similarities, but these differences are distinct and significant and should be understood. The fact is that the United States has been a mixture of capitalism and socialism for over 100 years now. Both parties agree that pure capitalism does not work any more than pure socialism works. This mixture must exist. The difference between Sanders and others, is to what percentage of capitalism and socialism the United States should be working under. I do not believe that the majority of posters on this forum, who decry the evils of socialism, even understand what socialism is. They have just learned to treat it as a key word to attack liberals... those of you who argue that socialism and communism are the same thing, prove this point, as well as your own ignorance.

I don't think even think that the USSR always simultaneously met all the criteria that you laid out. Isn't Communism in practice always going to to different than the way that it's ideologues tout it to be? I don't think a system has to exactly meet all 4 of those points to defined as Communist.