Deny banking services or lose access to their account because of their values

#53
#53
BigOrangeMojo said:
We are talking about this legislation which vaguely applies to all financial institutions....
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Ok, the TN legislation in question goes a little too far in what it includes for a financial institution but the premise of the bill isn't out of line IMO as long as banks are going to continue to be tied to the state they should have to at the very least explain their decisions to close accounts/call loans. If it's an actual financial reason, credit score, bad financials, unpaid loans ext they already have to send those notifications and reasoning.

Tennessee General Assembly Legislation
 
#54
#54
hog88 said:
Then it's on them when they fail. Banks can't have it both ways.

Well actually it's on their depositors.
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Heres the problem.

I believe that private businesses have freedom of association jist like people do.

But you cant say banks are too big to fail and bail them out with our tax dollars while also saying that the state cannot interfere with who they choose to do business with. Either the gov and banks are irrevocably separate ....or they arent. They cant have it both ways.
 
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#55
#55
hog88 said:
Ok, the TN legislation in question goes a little too far in what it includes for a financial institution but the premise of the bill isn't out of line IMO as long as banks are going to continue to be tied to the state they should have to at the very least explain their decisions to close accounts/call loans. If it's an actual financial reason, credit score, bad financials, unpaid loans ext they already have to send those notifications and reasoning.

Tennessee General Assembly Legislation
Click to expand...

Calling loans is based on loan agreement

Closing checking accounts is based on deposit agreements

Deciding whether to loan or not loan is a bank's call based on their due diligence of all relevant info (I heard that dozens of times in the Trump thread)
 
#56
#56
marcusluvsvols said:
Heres the problem.

I believe that private businesses have freedom of association jist like people do.

But you cant say banks are too big to fail and bail them out with our tax dollars while also saying that the state cannot interfere with who they choose to do business with. Either the gov and banks are irrevocably separate ....or they arent. They cant have it both ways.
Click to expand...

But this bill goes way beyond banks..insurance agents offices, financial advisors, title loan places, check cashing places...etc

Heck, this bill could extend to gas stations based on hedging they do...
 
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#57
#57
BigOrangeMojo said:
Calling loans is based on loan agreement

Closing checking accounts is based on deposit agreements

Deciding whether to loan or not loan is a bank's call based on their due diligence of all relevant info (I heard that dozens of times in the Trump thread)
Click to expand...

You're just being obtuse on this, trying to prove an unrelated point.
 
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#58
#58
hog88 said:
You're just being obtuse on this, trying to prove an unrelated point.
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If I meet the terms of my loan agreement, they arent going to cancel it even if I dance around in my MAGA underwear singing something from Kid Rock...
 
#59
#59
Banks extending loans can have a high degree of risk.

Customers depositing their money into a bank account - not so much.
 
#60
#60
Didn't SCOTUS settle the baker thing or am I thinking of something else?
 
#61
#61
BigOrangeMojo said:
If I meet the terms of my loan agreement, they arent going to cancel it even if I dance around in my MAGA underwear singing something from Kid Rock...
Click to expand...

Yet it is happening in Europe and I’m not so sure it hasn’t happened here.
 
#62
#62
marcusluvsvols said:
Heres the problem.

I believe that private businesses have freedom of association jist like people do.
Click to expand...
Before 2020, I would have agreed 110% with this. But since then, since we have seen the merging of the iron fist of govt behind the velvet glove of corporations (fascism), I began to realize that only individuals have rights that should be protected by the Constitution. This right here will give the govt the power to starve you if you don't toe the line, but they can hide behind the fake veneer of it being a decision made by a private business.

marcusluvsvols said:
But you cant say banks are too big to fail and bail them out with our tax dollars while also saying that the state cannot interfere with who they choose to do business with.
Click to expand...
Agree

marcusluvsvols said:
Either the gov and banks are irrevocably separate ....or they arent. They cant have it both ways.
Click to expand...
The Federal Reserve is as federal as Federal Express. Our central bank is a private entity, so in this sense, they are not separate.
 
#63
#63
hog88 said:
Yet it is happening in Europe and I’m not so sure it hasn’t happened here.
Click to expand...

Some rep binged on OAN and catturd tweets and fell for the fear porn and got all the buzzwords in there.

The only buzzword that matters here. Money. Banks exist to make money.

The quicker govt stays out of private business, the better we all will be...

I'm shocked I'm the actual conservative one here....

Maybe I'm the Libertarian here and not huff
 
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#64
#64
BigOrangeMojo said:
Some rep binged on OAN and catturd tweets and fell for the fear porn and got all the buzzwords in there.

The only buzzword that matters here. Money. Banks exist to make money.

The quicker govt stays out of private business, the better we all will be...

I'm shocked I'm the actual conservative one here....

Maybe I'm the Libertarian here and not huff
Click to expand...

We’re in 100% agreement on the quicker govt gets out of private business the better.
 
#65
#65
Rasputin_Vol said:
I used to believe this about China's social credit system but now after hearing a few people talk about it over the past year or so, I'm on the fence. It could be true, or it could be a scare tactic used to justify the US to take some action against China... sort of like how they demonize Tik-Tok right now.
Click to expand...

They spin it that it's a positive thing ONLY. And it is, in part positive: Chinese can apply for and get a second mortgage or car loan in 9 seconds or less. That's kind of amazing right? But on the other hand, all they have to do is irritate their government and they'd be getting a less favorable interest rate.

If they REALLY irritate their government, they just debanked.

Like many technological things, it can be used for good or be used to complete control someone.

My point of posting is just make people aware that there is a very important bill that will hopefully be passed today AND for Tennesseans to feel pretty good about themselves in general because at LEAST there is a bill being evaluated on YOUR behalf. The only other state that passed a bill like this is Florida I believe. Either way, Tennessee could be the second one.

So the next time someone thinks Tennessee is "not good" for whatever reason - maybe just because it's part of the South, that the reality is it's wayyyyy ahead of the many states that look down upon any Southern state.
 
#66
#66
BigOrangeMojo said:
If Wells Fargo don't want my stack of cash, some other bank will gladly take my business...
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When you're debanked, you have no recourse. It's not like anyone is giving you a heads up. ie, you won't have an opportunity to take your stack of cash anywhere after it's been seized.

It's late enough not that I will see if I can find out the outcome of today's bill.
 
#67
#67
Drewbydoo said:
When you're debanked, you have no recourse. It's not like anyone is giving you a heads up. ie, you won't have an opportunity to take your stack of cash anywhere after it's been seized.

It's late enough not that I will see if I can find out the outcome of today's bill.
Click to expand...

Lay off the OAN. You aren't getting debanked if you have any kind of cash unless you are being suspected of doing something illegal...
 
#68
#68
hog88 said:
Did you support the Obama administration pressuring banks to cease doing business with gun shops?

Look, I'm fine with banks doing business with whomever they choose but they should be required to give you a warning and a reason when they are closing your accounts.
Click to expand...
What to make of this from Louder’s link -

Last year, Wells Fargo abruptly cancelled a Florida gun dealer’s line of credit and sent a letter stating that “the reason(s) for this action is: Banking guidelines excludes lending to certain types of businesses.”
Click to expand...
 
#70
#70
NorthDallas40 said:
I think you meant if the state told the baker to bake the cake but the baker refused?
Click to expand...
No I meant it the other way. I realize that’s not the way it happened.

I was saying I support private companies choosing who they do business with.

I do not support private companies “choosing” after the State tells them which way to go.
 
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#71
#71
Drewbydoo said:
They spin it that it's a positive thing ONLY. And it is, in part positive: Chinese can apply for and get a second mortgage or car loan in 9 seconds or less. That's kind of amazing right? But on the other hand, all they have to do is irritate their government and they'd be getting a less favorable interest rate.

If they REALLY irritate their government, they just debanked.
Click to expand...
Well, like I said, it could be true or not. I'm not certain I can trust anything the media says about our supposed "enemies" anymore. They can and will say anything to create a narrative.
 
#72
#72
85SugarVol said:
No I meant it the other way. I realize that’s not the way it happened.

I was saying I support private companies choosing who they do business with.

I do not support private companies “choosing” after the State tells them which way to go.
Click to expand...
Eh I thought that’s what I was saying. But yeah I agree 🤷‍♂️
 
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#73
#73
BigOrangeMojo said:
I would think private businesses should be able to choose who they want to do business with....
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I’m not necessarily disagreeing with you. But they don’t get to claim FDIC insurance either. Now I know that there is an amount cap to the FDIC. But that’s a losing scenario for most folks that can complete a coherent sentence and not get lost in an empty room.
 
#74
#74
Where will I put my money..my mattress will burn when we lose to Saint Peters.
 
#75
#75
BigOrangeMojo said:
Regarding Banks, they should absolutely look at your business through a political spectrum as part of their review process. I've been told they should do their due diligence or does that not apply here?

If you are underwriting a loan abortion clinic in MS, would you approve them for a loan to expand in MS?

What about State Farm? Should they charge more for coverage on abortion building than pediatrician building? What if they don't want to write that policy?

If you are a company that supplies temp restaurant workers in CA with $22 minimum wage, would you approve them for a loan given likely automation increases?

If I wanted to expand a gun store in some uber liberal city that is planning strict bans, would you approve that loan?
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charge more/have different rates. There is a big difference in weighting your approach to various specifics vs denying services based on political stances that don't impact your bottom line.

As I said there are certain institutions that we are all almost literally required to work with. banks, insurance are good examples, and they are wed to the government. if you think the guy who buys guns deserves a worse rate on a loan due to increased assessed risks, that's just business. but if he can meet the terms, why would you say no?

They aren't going through and saying ok normal loan for 50k requires a 700, but if you own a gun you have to have a 750 minimum. they are saying we don't care what your credit score is, we aren't doing business with you. they aren't business decisions, they are pure political decisions that came after terms were agreed upon.
 
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