Deny banking services or lose access to their account because of their values

[LouderVol]

If I meet the terms of my loan agreement, they arent going to cancel it even if I dance around in my MAGA underwear singing something from Kid Rock...

except that is exactly what 12 ADs are claiming WF has done in their states, and it sounds like in others too.

 

[dalton_vol]

I believe citizens in the UK have been de-banked for political views.

Sounds pretty antithetical to our values imo.

They also do it in Canada

 

[dalton_vol]

Society is definitely going that way, any laws or bills will only delay the inevitable. Our society is being groomed to accept a social score, it might be a couple of generations away, but it will come.

 

[n_huffhines]

Society is definitely going that way, any laws or bills will only delay the inevitable. Our society is being groomed to accept a social score, it might be a couple of generations away, but it will come.

As long as the government isn't in charge of it and doesn't use it, then who cares? Why are right wingers so afraid of the free market? Google Reviews are awesome. I almost never find myself unhappy with a business or service that I select using Google Reviews. Now apply that to people. It'd be nice to know my neighbor is a scam artist, you know?

I have outsider opinions on a lot of things, and I'm not afraid of a social score. I guess I'm just not an afraid person, or I'm not ashamed of who I am. Some combination of both.

 

[Vol8188]

I'd love to know why people are supporting the state here but not supporting the state with the gay wedding case.....

My job has never required me to go to a bakery.

 

[BigOrangeMojo]

My job has never required me to go to a bakery.

Dang, I never knew "conservatives" were this limber twisting themselves into knots trying to justify more regulation and gov't involvement in private business.

Wanna bet if State Farm declined to cover the building housing an abortion clinic in a red state we would be hearing a completely different tune...

 

[Vol8188]

Dang, I never knew "conservatives" were this limber twisting themselves into knots trying to justify more regulation and gov't involvement in private business.

Wanna bet if State Farm declined to cover the building housing an abortion clinic in a red state we would be hearing a completely different tune...

Maybe, or maybe you’re intentionally misunderstanding both situations and attempting to make a really poor comparison.

 

[BigOrangeMojo]

Maybe, or maybe you’re intentionally misunderstanding both situations and attempting to make a really poor comparison.

Nope, this bill covers insurers and a lot of other companies beyond banks....

My analogy is 100% on point. You don't like that it shows your inconsistency based on the political facts involved...

 

[Vol8188]

Nope, this bill covers insurers and a lot of other companies beyond banks....

My analogy is 100% on point. You don't like that it shows your inconsistency based on the political facts involved...

The poor comparison was to cakes. It’s not inconsistent to state that your access to a bank is more important than your access to a gay wedding cake

 

[85SugarVol]

As long as the government isn't in charge of it and doesn't use it, then who cares? Why are right wingers so afraid of the free market? Google Reviews are awesome. I almost never find myself unhappy with a business or service that I select using Google Reviews. Now apply that to people. It'd be nice to know my neighbor is a scam artist, you know?

I have outsider opinions on a lot of things, and I'm not afraid of a social score. I guess I'm just not an afraid person, or I'm not ashamed of who I am. Some combination of both.

You sound like an effing cop.

“What are you afraid of, what are you hiding?”
“Why don’t you just submit”

And Google reviews are for products people are looking to purchase.
Are you looking to purchase your neighbor?

This is Big Brother as absolute F.

And lmao at your implication that the State wouldn’t use it.

 

[85SugarVol]

Dang, I never knew "conservatives" were this limber twisting themselves into knots trying to justify more regulation and gov't involvement in private business.

Wanna bet if State Farm declined to cover the building housing an abortion clinic in a red state we would be hearing a completely different tune...

The State cannot / should not compel private business to do its bidding.

Especially if the State could never legally compel the citizenry directly.

 

[Vol8188]

You sound like an effing cop.

“What are you afraid of, what are you hiding?”
“Why don’t you just submit”

And Google reviews are for products people are looking to purchase.
Are you looking to purchase your neighbor?

This is Big Brother as absolute F.

And lmao at your implication that the State wouldn’t use it.

I started to make the same comment. Our libertarian has nothing to hide

 

[85SugarVol]

I started to make the same comment. Our libertarian has nothing to hide

Sounding pretty totalitarian on this one.

 

[CagleMtnVol]

I didn't read through the entire thread but would this stop th nonsense of some banks refusing to process payments for firearms & ammunition purchases?

 

[BigOrangeMojo]

The poor comparison was to cakes. It’s not inconsistent to state that your access to a bank is more important than your access to a gay wedding cake

If you can't bank somewhere, go to a different bank. If you can't get your gay wedding cake, you can go to another bakery.

The gun store that caused this had almost 2 months to find a different institution. It's not like their cash was seized and they had no options. Stop buying the fear porn.

Just remember, this gun store operates in a very regulated industry and they completely and very publicly disregarded all COVID regulations in 2020. But yes, you become a risk if you operate in a highly regulated industry and you publicly show you won't follow regulations (as dumb as some of them were).

 

[Vol8188]

If you can't bank somewhere, go to a different bank. If you can't get your gay wedding cake, you can go to another bakery.

The gun store that caused this had almost 2 months to find a different institution. It's not like their cash was seized and they had no options. Stop buying the fear porn.

Just remember, this gun store operates in a very regulated industry and they completely and very publicly disregarded all COVID regulations in 2020. But yes, you become a risk if you operate in a highly regulated industry and you publicly show you won't follow regulations (as dumb as some of them were).

This is where your comparison breaks down. We have seen issues in the last few years of people having their funds frozen by banks or being banned from all available banks.

The wedding cake was the complete opposite. They intentionally shopped around for someone to deny them and even then they were not denied the right to purchase any of the cakes or other items the baker made.

This comparison would be more like you spend 10k on a cake and then your baker keeps the money and gives you no cake

 

[0nelilreb]

As long as the government isn't in charge of it and doesn't use it, then who cares? Why are right wingers so afraid of the free market? Google Reviews are awesome. I almost never find myself unhappy with a business or service that I select using Google Reviews. Now apply that to people. It'd be nice to know my neighbor is a scam artist, you know?

I have outsider opinions on a lot of things, and I'm not afraid of a social score. I guess I'm just not an afraid person, or I'm not ashamed of who I am. Some combination of both.

Who in the hell do you think would be in charge of a system that controls what it’s county’s citizens are able to do and not to do , say and not say Without receiving a “good boy / bad boy “ score ? Have you ever thought in your “ free trade world , just who will be in control of the levers of power ? Someone has to be , that part won’t change .. ever .

 

[LouderVol]

As long as the government isn't in charge of it and doesn't use it, then who cares? Why are right wingers so afraid of the free market? Google Reviews are awesome. I almost never find myself unhappy with a business or service that I select using Google Reviews. Now apply that to people. It'd be nice to know my neighbor is a scam artist, you know?

I have outsider opinions on a lot of things, and I'm not afraid of a social score. I guess I'm just not an afraid person, or I'm not ashamed of who I am. Some combination of both.

its going to become a discrimination thing REAL fast. or at the very least a very divisive culture.

Sub markets will arise as companies come up with their own credit score requirements you may be welcome at store A, but not store B, but no real way to know until you try. and because it won't be continuum you could easily find yourself without recourse real fast.

and the problem is you are going to get lumped into groups you don't really belong too. just like on here, you criticize a bad policy of a Democrat, and you may lose your Democrat social credit score, and still have too low of a Republican social credit score to readily shop elsewhere.

what happens when you travel? Your credit score may work at home with similar minded people. but head out, especially if you cross urbanization lines, and you will easily find yourself in a social credit score desert.

it would probably have to be a federal standard. otherwise there is nothing saying that a companies social scoring won't change at state lines due to local pressures.

 

[n_huffhines]

its going to become a discrimination thing REAL fast. or at the very least a very divisive culture.

Sub markets will arise as companies come up with their own credit score requirements you may be welcome at store A, but not store B, but no real way to know until you try. and because it won't be continuum you could easily find yourself without recourse real fast.

and the problem is you are going to get lumped into groups you don't really belong too. just like on here, you criticize a bad policy of a Democrat, and you may lose your Democrat social credit score, and still have too low of a Republican social credit score to readily shop elsewhere.

what happens when you travel? Your credit score may work at home with similar minded people. but head out, especially if you cross urbanization lines, and you will easily find yourself in a social credit score desert.

it would probably have to be a federal standard. otherwise there is nothing saying that a companies social scoring won't change at state lines due to local pressures.

I guess I don't understand why people think social credit scores will be so closely aligned with political affiliation? It's like mojo says. Banks want R and D money. Why woukd they adopt a scale that is against R affiliation? This seems like it would only be a concern from niche businesses, like maybe an art dealer or something like that.

 

[LouderVol]

I guess I don't understand why people think social credit scores will be so closely aligned with political affiliation? It's like mojo says. Banks want R and D money. Why woukd they adopt a scale that is against R affiliation? This seems like it would only be a concern from niche businesses, like maybe an art dealer or something like that.

Ask Wells Fargo. they have done it.

and what else is a social credit score going to turn into in this country? what do you think they are going to be scoring you on?

 

[n_huffhines]

Ask Wells Fargo. they have done it.

and what else is a social credit score going to turn into in this country? what do you think they are going to be scoring you on?

Behavior.

Here's one of many examples of how I see it working out. A social credit score would be a check on behavior in this relatively new online landscape that is such a huge part of society. The internet has allowed us to become more divided and hateful towards others because people compartmentalize their online persona and it's not part of their real world persona...but it is part of the real world and usually they're not facing real consequences for acting like complete assholes all the time...something almost none of them do in the real world.

So yeah, if my daughter brings home a boy and I can go to a website and see that he's been flagged for harassing posts 200x on social media, then I'm going to appreciate that information. What about false complaints of harassment? Here are the citations, judge for yourself. Believe me, people are going to start acting like the cyber world is the real world, if it follows them like that.

 

[LouderVol]

Behavior.

Here's one of many examples of how I see it working out. A social credit score would be a check on behavior in this relatively new online landscape that is such a huge part of society. The internet has allowed us to become more divided and hateful towards others because people compartmentalize their online persona and it's not part of their real world persona...but it is part of the real world and usually they're not facing real consequences for acting like complete assholes all the time...something almost none of them do in the real world.

So yeah, if my daughter brings home a boy and I can go to a website and see that he's been flagged for harassing posts 200x on social media, then I'm going to appreciate that information. What about false complaints of harassment? Here are the citations, judge for yourself. Believe me, people are going to start acting like the cyber world is the real world, if it follows them like that.

but its never going to be equal.

you 100% have to recognize that "harassment" is going to be reported differently based on your political leaning. there is zero way to keep the reporters bias out of that factor. and that goes for either side. again just look at how either side reacts to any honest critique of their politician of choice, now imagine the defensive reactions to protect people you actually know, 10x worse.

your example of protecting your daughter sounds like another version of "swatting" to me. lose an argument to someone, report them. get beat in a video game, report them. see them post some completely non-threatening selfie with a subject you don't like, report them. 99.9999% of people aren't ever going to check those sources, and even you aren't running down 200 examples. How are you going to know its not some jilted girlfriend who is trying to extort the boy? You going to keep parents from trashing other kids they know are trying to get into the same competitive group?

 

[n_huffhines]

but its never going to be equal.

you 100% have to recognize that "harassment" is going to be reported differently based on your political leaning. there is zero way to keep the reporters bias out of that factor. and that goes for either side. again just look at how either side reacts to any honest critique of their politician of choice, now imagine the defensive reactions to protect people you actually know, 10x worse.

your example of protecting your daughter sounds like another version of "swatting" to me. lose an argument to someone, report them. get beat in a video game, report them. see them post some completely non-threatening selfie with a subject you don't like, report them. 99.9999% of people aren't ever going to check those sources, and even you aren't running down 200 examples. How are you going to know its not some jilted girlfriend who is trying to extort the boy? You going to keep parents from trashing other kids they know are trying to get into the same competitive group?

What in this world is ever equal? That's not a standard by which we should be suppressing freedom. I'm not saying that's what you're proposing, but what my position is, I'm not going to use the government to suppress the free market out of concerns that a social credit score will be unequal. It's a guarantee that it will be unequal. Perfect equality in an imperfect world is impossible. Nothing about capitalism or the market is perfectly fair or equal.

Seems like a reliable social credit score would identify swatters and penalize them. Why wouldn't it work that way?

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

As long as the government isn't in charge of it and doesn't use it, then who cares? Why are right wingers so afraid of the free market?

The banks and the govt are fascist partners.

Google Reviews are awesome. I almost never find myself unhappy with a business or service that I select using Google Reviews. Now apply that to people. It'd be nice to know my neighbor is a scam artist, you know?

People lie.

I have outsider opinions on a lot of things, and I'm not afraid of a social score. I guess I'm just not an afraid person, or I'm not ashamed of who I am. Some combination of both.

Why does the govt or a corporation being manipulated by govt have the right to deny services? Again, we are living in a fascists environment in 2024 America.

 

[n_huffhines]

The banks and the govt are fascist partners.


People lie.


Why does the govt or a corporation being manipulated by govt have the right to deny services? Again, we are living in a fascists environment in 2024 America.

A former libertarian asking me why a corporation has a right to deny services is kinda bizarre. You may not believe in libertarianism anymore, but you know what the case is for freedom, right?