Deny banking services or lose access to their account because of their values

#101
#101
n_huffhines said:
Behavior.

Here's one of many examples of how I see it working out. A social credit score would be a check on behavior in this relatively new online landscape that is such a huge part of society. The internet has allowed us to become more divided and hateful towards others because people compartmentalize their online persona and it's not part of their real world persona...but it is part of the real world and usually they're not facing real consequences for acting like complete assholes all the time...something almost none of them do in the real world.

So yeah, if my daughter brings home a boy and I can go to a website and see that he's been flagged for harassing posts 200x on social media, then I'm going to appreciate that information. What about false complaints of harassment? Here are the citations, judge for yourself. Believe me, people are going to start acting like the cyber world is the real world, if it follows them like that.
Click to expand...
Oh boy, we’ll just have fact-checkers validate the myriad reports of harassment.

What could go wrong?
 
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#102
#102
n_huffhines said:
What in this world is ever equal? That's not a standard by which we should be suppressing freedom. I'm not saying that's what you're proposing, but what my position is, I'm not going to use the government to suppress the free market out of concerns that a social credit score will be unequal. It's a guarantee that it will be unequal. Perfect equality in an imperfect world is impossible. Nothing about capitalism or the market is perfectly fair or equal.

Seems like a reliable social credit score would identify swatters and penalize them. Why wouldn't it work that way?
Click to expand...
Suppressing freedom?

Lmao. The social credit score in your scenario will suppress freedom. You admit it’s to suppress people’s freedom to be an ass online.

I never in a million years would have pegged you for social credit score guy. Unbelievable.
 
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#103
#103
85SugarVol said:
Suppressing freedom?

Lmao. The social credit score in your scenario will suppress freedom. You admit it’s to suppress people’s freedom to be an ass online.

I never in a million years would have pegged you for social credit score guy. Unbelievable.
Click to expand...

You don't understand libertarianism.
 
#105
#105
n_huffhines said:
A former libertarian asking me why a corporation has a right to deny services is kinda bizarre. You may not believe in libertarianism anymore, but you know what the case is for freedom, right?
Click to expand...

Or you may not have read what he actually said. Key word your omitting “government”
 
#106
#106
n_huffhines said:
As long as the government isn't in charge of it and doesn't use it, then who cares? Why are right wingers so afraid of the free market? Google Reviews are awesome. I almost never find myself unhappy with a business or service that I select using Google Reviews. Now apply that to people. It'd be nice to know my neighbor is a scam artist, you know?

I have outsider opinions on a lot of things, and I'm not afraid of a social score. I guess I'm just not an afraid person, or I'm not ashamed of who I am. Some combination of both.
Click to expand...

If you love the fed government and believe the gov is always right, then you shouldn't worry. People who value constitution, bill of rights, etc.. are the ones who'll be attacked. saying a social score is considered free market is just silly.
 
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#107
#107
85SugarVol said:
Suppressing freedom?

Lmao. The social credit score in your scenario will suppress freedom. You admit it’s to suppress people’s freedom to be an ass online.

I never in a million years would have pegged you for social credit score guy. Unbelievable.
Click to expand...

He's has to trolling
 
#108
#108
n_huffhines said:
What in this world is ever equal? That's not a standard by which we should be suppressing freedom. I'm not saying that's what you're proposing, but what my position is, I'm not going to use the government to suppress the free market out of concerns that a social credit score will be unequal. It's a guarantee that it will be unequal. Perfect equality in an imperfect world is impossible. Nothing about capitalism or the market is perfectly fair or equal.

Seems like a reliable social credit score would identify swatters and penalize them. Why wouldn't it work that way?
Click to expand...
because the swatters are going to be willing to take advantage of it. some fake emails and chat gpt and a good person is buried. one report from the good guy about the swatter will get lost in the noise. you really believe that everything on the internet is true?

in what world is the social credit score capitalistic in your mind? This would be defining reasons to NOT do business with people based on completely subjective non-market related items. people you have probably had absolutely no interactions with; judged and sentenced by the court of the masses. As a business owner your choices will be artificially limited based on what is acceptable to society, not to you personally. you really think this system would allow gun shop owners, going back to WF, a fair shake on the market? How many LGs will be out there doxxing them as accomplices to murder, even if you wanted to do business with them you wouldn't be able to as you would be guilty by association and doom your own score.

i see the social credit score as far far more damaging to individual freedoms than any benefit it could have. forcing people to comply with the group think or get doxxed is not "freedom". it will define the one acceptable path everyone will have to take. and it will be society who determines what path the individual takes, not the individual themselves. it will be organized online bullying with huge financial ramifications. you are dooming any possibility of people just being themselves, and if anything you are just further cementing the divide as people will have no choice but to only hang out with like minded people. it will create second and third class citizens who will be denied services for things they probably never did, or things that certainly aren't crimes.

if looking people up is so important to you, those tools already exist. you aren't being denied your own research. google will already turn up way too much. hire a private detective, you can look up tax records and tons of public information already like any businesses owned and criminal records.

one upset girlfriend, or even one that wanted to be your girlfriend, and ex-employee, and ex boss, someone you didn't hold the door for; anybody with the slightest bit of grief is going to be able to get you on black lists for a lot of places with a bad review. Calling that freedom is beyond Orwellian.
 
#109
#109
n_huffhines said:
You don't understand libertarianism.
Click to expand...
neither do you.

you are supporting a system as "libertarian" while admitting it will harm people and actively restrict their ability to do business. a system that will not be relying on individual choices or input, but rather the input of society to actively shape the market in a way actively neither fair nor free.
 
#112
#112
85SugarVol said:
How does a social credit score promote freedom?
Click to expand...
As I read Huff's posts, I get the sense that Huff's SCS neither promotes nor hinders freedom.

Think of it as a completely organic rating from other users of a platform. Somewhat similar to our "like" button.
 
#113
#113
hog88 said:
Could you imagine having that system during the height of covid? It would have been a bloodbath for all of the science deniers.
Click to expand...
You think anyone might have been denied any of these, based on nothing more than their social score ?

- Housing
- Employment
- Healthcare

You’re unvaxxed? -10,000 points
Disparaged the vax? -1,000,000 points!
 
#114
#114
McDad said:
As I read Huff's posts, I get the sense that Huff's SCS neither promotes nor hinders freedom.

Think of it as a completely organic rating from other users of a platform. Somewhat similar to our "like" button.
Click to expand...
Eh, seems much more involved than a “like” total. Also, we don’t accrue “dislikes” here.

I struggle to see how this could promote freedom.
I have a much easier time envisioning how this could hinder freedom.
 
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#115
#115
85SugarVol said:
You think anyone might have been denied any of these, based on nothing more than their social score ?

- Housing
- Employment
- Healthcare

You’re unvaxxed? -10,000 points
Disparaged the vax? -1,000,000 points!
Click to expand...

Without a doubt the undesirables would have been denied. It's acceptable to discriminate against undesirables.
 
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#121
#121
dalton_vol said:
If you love the fed government and believe the gov is always right, then you shouldn't worry. People who value constitution, bill of rights, etc.. are the ones who'll be attacked. saying a social score is considered free market is just silly.
Click to expand...

I don't know what you're talking about at this point. I'm talking about the free market using a social credit score, much like the free market uses a financial credit score. Why are you talking about the federal government/government? The constitution is on my side.
 
#123
#123
LouderVol said:
because the swatters are going to be willing to take advantage of it. some fake emails and chat gpt and a good person is buried. one report from the good guy about the swatter will get lost in the noise. you really believe that everything on the internet is true?

in what world is the social credit score capitalistic in your mind? This would be defining reasons to NOT do business with people based on completely subjective non-market related items. people you have probably had absolutely no interactions with; judged and sentenced by the court of the masses. As a business owner your choices will be artificially limited based on what is acceptable to society, not to you personally. you really think this system would allow gun shop owners, going back to WF, a fair shake on the market? How many LGs will be out there doxxing them as accomplices to murder, even if you wanted to do business with them you wouldn't be able to as you would be guilty by association and doom your own score.

i see the social credit score as far far more damaging to individual freedoms than any benefit it could have. forcing people to comply with the group think or get doxxed is not "freedom". it will define the one acceptable path everyone will have to take. and it will be society who determines what path the individual takes, not the individual themselves. it will be organized online bullying with huge financial ramifications. you are dooming any possibility of people just being themselves, and if anything you are just further cementing the divide as people will have no choice but to only hang out with like minded people. it will create second and third class citizens who will be denied services for things they probably never did, or things that certainly aren't crimes.

if looking people up is so important to you, those tools already exist. you aren't being denied your own research. google will already turn up way too much. hire a private detective, you can look up tax records and tons of public information already like any businesses owned and criminal records.

one upset girlfriend, or even one that wanted to be your girlfriend, and ex-employee, and ex boss, someone you didn't hold the door for; anybody with the slightest bit of grief is going to be able to get you on black lists for a lot of places with a bad review. Calling that freedom is beyond Orwellian.
Click to expand...

These are simple problems to solve with swatters. Why wouldn't the system require verification? We're way past this with tech. These are techniques that used to fool Google 15 years ago. I assume the free market would arrive at social credit scoring systems that are more sophisticated than what our tech allowed 15 years ago.

Why wouldn't there be a high standard for impeaching somebody's credit? Companies want to do business with you. That's the incentive. I'm not afraid of the outcome when the process is a result of freedom (not government interference). You get more information. And the incentive system protects us. Everybody wants to do business, for the most part. They don't care if you are Christian or Republican. Some care if you are a dick. Most people would still do business with you.

Hire a private detective? LOL. OK.

Don't be so afraid of the free market.
 
#124
#124
85SugarVol said:
Eh, seems much more involved than a “like” total. Also, we don’t accrue “dislikes” here.

I struggle to see how this could promote freedom.
I have a much easier time envisioning how this could hinder freedom.
Click to expand...
Ok. Fair.

What about the seller rating on Ebay as an example?

It doesn't inhibit or promote freedom. It inhibits and promotes the people on the platform to make transactions with trust.
 
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