Department of Government Efficiency - DOGE

[LouderVol]

People will fall on different definitions of "controlled". On one side you have more or less what we have now which is basically a blitzkrieg approach. To the extent it has the opposition losing their minds and in total disarray while looking much like what most on the Right have long been in favor of it's working fairly well. On the other side, even among those amenable to the goals presented, some are troubled with the idea of reckless haste causing it's own problems. If there's a genuine (not just a soundbite) screwup it will be pounced on as reason to slow down the whole thing. Even lesser issues can (and will to the best of the oppositions ability) be pushed hard to the fore to chip away at the credibility of the process.

Like generals standing over a map and arguing how to best attack the enemy some are going to present much more aggressive strategies than others. I think there are some areas where "shock and awe" are probably pretty viable. If you can ask yourself "Why the hell did anyone ever think this was a legitimate use of tax dollars?" then that's probably one of those areas. Other examples might not be as clear cut and stampeding into the breach might be a viable approach but is it the best? Could it come back to haunt you?

I guess in the end it comes down to what kind of general you are when looking at that map.

a general needs a strategy. it doesn't matter what tactics they use if there is no strategy. right now DOGE has no strategy, its just "go".

using the blitzkrieg comparison this is hitler ordering the panzers forward without consideration for fuel and support.

blitzkrieg, or any tactics, can work. but you have to have a plan/strategy. thinking about all the things you are hitting. making sure you actually hit the important targets, and don't just drive past them leaving yourself surrounded. Elon/Trump/Doge don't have any of that.

unless we see some serious changes, I doubt we see any meaningful impact from DOGE.

 

[hog88]

a general needs a strategy. it doesn't matter what tactics they use if there is no strategy. right now DOGE has no strategy, its just "go".

using the blitzkrieg comparison this is hitler ordering the panzers forward without consideration for fuel and support.

blitzkrieg, or any tactics, can work. but you have to have a plan/strategy. thinking about all the things you are hitting. making sure you actually hit the important targets, and don't just drive past them leaving yourself surrounded. Elon/Trump/Doge don't have any of that.

unless we see some serious changes, I doubt we see any meaningful impact from DOGE.

You won't see any serious changes until the budget is under consideration in congress. They had to use blitz tactics to bring attention to the public and pressure on congressional republicans due to the time constraints of the budget proccess.

 

[LouderVol]

I did want to add something that I probably should have mentioned, I have mentioned it during the election process and once Trump was in office and started to move light speed fast.

All of this could indeed be bad or cause further escalation, meaning some of these moves might cause a RESET of the financial system, either intentionally or unintentionally. This is one reason why I didn't vote even though in spirit I was pulling for the Orange man by the end. Do I pull for candidate X who might cause a RESET? Or do I prolong the system by voting for candidate Y?

Either way, the bad actors need to be removed from government and in many cases criminal prosecutions need to start, this isn't just a few of them either. There is no slow to that.

So... to your eyes, yes, all of this could be bad.... but really its facing the Truth i.e. all of this was horseshit anyway.

Both Trump and Elon are very close to the Truth now... the problem with that is.... RESET. (but that is going to happen at some point anyway)

I put the chances of RESET within a few years as somewhat likely, its not all roses, candy and popcorn.

the plane is going down. no disagreeing with that. But before I jump out of it, I am making sure I have a parachute or a way to land. you guys are jumping without any thoughts of if its ACTUALLY better.

is there an option for a soft landing, is Captain Sully on board, or can we get one? nope, yall are just jumping out and saying its the best option.

 

[hog88]

the plane is going down. no disagreeing with that. But before I jump out of it, I am making sure I have a parachute or a way to land. you guys are jumping without any thoughts of if its ACTUALLY better.

is there an option for a soft landing, is Captain Sully on board, or can we get one? nope, yall are just jumping out and saying its the best option.

If the plane is going down what does it matter if you have a parachute on or not?

 

[LSU-SIU]

the plane is going down. no disagreeing with that. But before I jump out of it, I am making sure I have a parachute or a way to land. you guys are jumping without any thoughts of if its ACTUALLY better.

is there an option for a soft landing, is Captain Sully on board, or can we get one? nope, yall are just jumping out and saying its the best option.

Eventually RESET will mean RESET, the last restructuring was about as slow soft a landing (WWII) as you'll get and they were attempting to start a backfire (which is what Hitler was.... they wanted Hitler, its an ugly truth).... the system is 10-20 times larger now and with many more walking liabilities (7 billion) that will need to be written off the ledger. (of course there is the nuke problem i.e. extinction)

This time the ATMs stop working, well.... (just in time production, means just in time starvation... 40-50% of Americans worked or lived on farms)

The bigger the system gets, generally the bigger the collapse and liquidation. (like a virus in a petri dish)

We'll see how it turns out... the selfish side of me hopes its past my nature expiration date... it will probably will be hell on earth.

 

[LouderVol]

You won't see any serious changes until the budget is under consideration in congress. They had to use blitz tactics to bring attention to the public and pressure on congressional republicans due to the time constraints of the budget proccess.

they could bring attention to it, just by having a report. they don't need to bring attention by firing an entire nuclear security department only to try hire them back.

just like with Covid, the cure can be worse than the disease if its not handled well.

 

[LouderVol]

Eventually RESET will mean RESET, the last restructuring was about as slow soft a landing (WWII) as you'll get and they were attempting to start a backfire (which is what Hitler was.... they wanted Hitler, its an ugly truth).... the system is 10-20 times larger now and with many more walking liabilities (7 billion) that will need to be written off the ledger. (of course there is the nuke problem i.e. extinction)

This time the ATMs stop working, well.... (just in time production, means just in time starvation... 40-50% of Americans worked or lived on farms)

The bigger the system gets, generally the bigger the collapse and liquidation. (like a virus in a petri dish)

We'll see how it turns out... the selfish side of me hopes it past my nature expiration date... it will probably be hell on earth.

and instead of making sure the failure is as dramatic as possible like DOGE is doing, they could be working to manage it.

 

[hog88]

they could bring attention to it, just by having a report. they don't need to bring attention by firing an entire nuclear security department only to try hire them back.

just like with Covid, the cure can be worse than the disease if its not handled well.

Mistakes will be made when you are in a hurry and they have to be in a hurry, the window to make a difference is small. If they cannot get congress to make serious spending reductions this cycle it's over.

 

[LSU-SIU]

and instead of making sure the failure is as dramatic as possible like DOGE is doing, they could be working to manage it.

I would say they are i.e. removing bad Actors. I don't predict they will cause the RESET but it wouldn't surprise me either (somewhat likely).... Elon and Trump are very close to the Truth.

Everyone is saying they want the Truth, the reality is they don't if they know what is next.

I would not want to be President, I don't even want to vote for President.

 

[volbound1700]

its not the only way. DOGE could literally keep doing what it is doing, but at a more controlled pace. to minimize their own mistakes and waste.

This is a rational take, wow.

I like DOGE and what it is doing but agree it can slow down at times, especially on the reporting part.

 

[hndog609]

a general needs a strategy. it doesn't matter what tactics they use if there is no strategy. right now DOGE has no strategy, its just "go".

using the blitzkrieg comparison this is hitler ordering the panzers forward without consideration for fuel and support.

blitzkrieg, or any tactics, can work. but you have to have a plan/strategy. thinking about all the things you are hitting. making sure you actually hit the important targets, and don't just drive past them leaving yourself surrounded. Elon/Trump/Doge don't have any of that.

unless we see some serious changes, I doubt we see any meaningful impact from DOGE.

Maaaybe? I think hitting them hard and fast is a strategy with it's own rewards. (see the previously cited disarray and absolute diaper filling on the other side) Now having said that I agree (and alluded to) that isn't necessarily sustainable. To stay with the military analogy break through their lines and rallying support from your successes is a good thing but some of the enemies positions are more fortified than others and the same approach isn't as applicable. If it really is just a headlong "damn the torpedoes" as the whole of the strategy then yeah...it's a given there's going to be some issues. My sincere hope is we're just in the "get them on the run" phase of swift auditing which will be followed by a much more measured an thorough approach.

There's a ton of good will for the "idea" of DOGE. Pretty much the only people that have a problem with tearing into .gov waste, nevermind outright corruption, are those directly benefitting. I don't know the last time (ever?) there's been anything remotely like this happening right out in the open from the top down. I really hope it isn't squandered.

 

[NashVol11]

My sincere hope is we're just in the "get them on the run" phase of swift auditing which will be followed by a much more measured an thorough approach.

I just haven't seen Elon be "measured and thorough" recently. With Twitter his guiding principle has mostly been hastily getting rid of things, or speech, that made him look bad (making likes private because he got caught liking porn, remaking Grok because he kept getting called out by his own AI, deleting Community Notes because they said he was lying, etc.)

 

[DC_Vol]

the plane is going down. no disagreeing with that. But before I jump out of it, I am making sure I have a parachute or a way to land. you guys are jumping without any thoughts of if its ACTUALLY better.

is there an option for a soft landing, is Captain Sully on board, or can we get one? nope, yall are just jumping out and saying its the best option.

Not really related but just an interesting fact. I personally know 2 people who have been in commercial aviation crashes and 1 person in a private jet crash. The first two lived…the last did not.

One of them was the dad of a friend of mine. His seat was thrown out of the airplane. He was we one of a handful that survived. Accident killed well over 100 people.

His wife left him. He was supposed to be on a business trip, not going on vacation with his mistress.

 

[hndog609]

I just haven't seen Elon be "measured and thorough" recently. With Twitter his guiding principle has mostly been hastily getting rid of things, or speech, that made him look bad (making likes private because he got caught liking porn, remaking Grok because he kept getting called out by his own AI, deleting Community Notes because they said he was lying, etc.)

I know from the mindset you speak and don't want to dismiss your reservations entirely. Having said that Twitter is his to play with and, well, whatever. (I don't even have a account and doubt I ever will) DOGE as it applies to the .gov is a bit of a different animal and there's a lot more moving parts, including those that aren't under his control. All I (we really) can do is see how it plays out.

 

[MOOOOONEY]

View attachment 723483

the majority of the stakeholders have spoken. It’s time for a change.

I don’t like to see anyone lose their job, but in the real world when a new CEO comes in to a failing business that’s inefficient and bloated then unfortunately there’s employee turnover.

The private sector is in need of workers so there’s plenty of opportunities for these people.

 

[NashVol11]

I know from the mindset you speak and don't want to dismiss your reservations entirely. Having said that Twitter is his to play with and, well, whatever. (I don't even have a account and doubt I ever will) DOGE as it applies to the .gov is a bit of a different animal and there's a lot more moving parts, including those that aren't under his control. All I (we really) can do is see how it plays out.

It's a different animal, but at some point when everything was haphazard and disorganized and distorted to make him look good with Twitter, and so far everything has been haphazard and disorganized and distorted to make him look good with DOGE, I just don't personally expect the "measured and thorough" style to appear anytime soon

 

[hndog609]

It's a different animal, but at some point when everything was haphazard and disorganized and distorted to make him look good with Twitter, and so far everything has been haphazard and disorganized and distorted to make him look good with DOGE, I just don't personally expect the "measured and thorough" style to appear anytime soon

I probably should have put more emphasis on the idea that this isn't all up to him the way it was with Twitter. Even if one assumes he "would" treat it the same that's not the same thing as saying he'd be allowed to do so.

 

[LouderVol]

Mistakes will be made when you are in a hurry and they have to be in a hurry, the window to make a difference is small. If they cannot get congress to make serious spending reductions this cycle it's over.

and consistently over estimating the problem by 100%, and getting called on it, is going to help motivate Congress?

I would think a much more reasoned, and fact driven report would get better responses from the middle of Congress.

Sure Trumps base loves this stuff, but the middle who could be convinced aren't going to love all of the hysteria.

 

[LouderVol]

Maaaybe? I think hitting them hard and fast is a strategy with it's own rewards. (see the previously cited disarray and absolute diaper filling on the other side) Now having said that I agree (and alluded to) that isn't necessarily sustainable. To stay with the military analogy break through their lines and rallying support from your successes is a good thing but some of the enemies positions are more fortified than others and the same approach isn't as applicable. If it really is just a headlong "damn the torpedoes" as the whole of the strategy then yeah...it's a given there's going to be some issues. My sincere hope is we're just in the "get them on the run" phase of swift auditing which will be followed by a much more measured an thorough approach.

There's a ton of good will for the "idea" of DOGE. Pretty much the only people that have a problem with tearing into .gov waste, nevermind outright corruption, are those directly benefitting. I don't know the last time (ever?) there's been anything remotely like this happening right out in the open from the top down. I really hope it isn't squandered.

I think they squander away good portions of that every time they make some of these big mistakes. especially with how they address the issues. Like if we saw them learning and adapting from their previous issues, it would lend them some credence as an actual viable long term solution.

as it is they are chicken little. they may be right, the sky is probably falling, but its not a good way to garner serious, long term, support that is going to make real change.

some in the middle are going to be hesitant to attach their name to DOGE if they keep getting stuff wrong, and relying on Twitter blasts of "WORST FRAUD EVER IN COUNTRY'S HISTORY". regardless if they are in on the grift or not.

 

[LouderVol]

Not really related but just an interesting fact. I personally know 2 people who have been in commercial aviation crashes and 1 person in a private jet crash. The first two lived…the last did not.

One of them was the dad of a friend of mine. His seat was thrown out of the airplane. He was we one of a handful that survived. Accident killed well over 100 people.

His wife left him. He was supposed to be on a business trip, not going on vacation with his mistress.

I have a friend who was in navy heli-rescue, he told me some safety tips for surviving a crash. and most of them were in direct conflict with what the commercial airliners tell you.

he says their safety instructions are aimed at protecting the airlines from lawsuits more than keeping the people safe.

 

[McDad]

So there is at least one bigot on staff, Elon did do the weird salute, and they are lying to the courts about who is in charge. The joke works.

It's only funny or relevant when you obsessively loathe Elon.
One bigot =/= neonazis (plural)
Drug dealers???
Weird salute =/= nazi salute.
DOGE not in charge.

I hate that, as posters, we're grabbing nonsensical partisan pablum instead of talking about our own ideas and concepts.

Rant over.

 

[DC_Vol]

I have a friend who was in navy heli-rescue, he told me some safety tips for surviving a crash. and most of them were in direct conflict with what the commercial airliners tell you.

he says their safety instructions are aimed at protecting the airlines from lawsuits more than keeping the people safe.

That is counterintuitive. Wouldn’t protecting people protect the airlines from lawsuits?

 

[hog88]

and consistently over estimating the problem by 100%, and getting called on it, is going to help motivate Congress?

I would think a much more reasoned, and fact driven report would get better responses from the middle of Congress.

Sure Trumps base loves this stuff, but the middle who could be convinced aren't going to love all of the hysteria.

I said mistakes are being made and hopefully they will clean up their act. It’s barely been a month.

 

[volbound1700]

I think they squander away good portions of that every time they make some of these big mistakes. especially with how they address the issues. Like if we saw them learning and adapting from their previous issues, it would lend them some credence as an actual viable long term solution.

as it is they are chicken little. they may be right, the sky is probably falling, but its not a good way to garner serious, long term, support that is going to make real change.

some in the middle are going to be hesitant to attach their name to DOGE if they keep getting stuff wrong, and relying on Twitter blasts of "WORST FRAUD EVER IN COUNTRY'S HISTORY". regardless if they are in on the grift or not.

To be fair, any statement with that language is instantly marked as opinion. It can't be read as a truth with how the statement is structured. All sides do that in politics (or frankly about anything in life). We make these kind of bombastic statements on here, especially in the Football thread lol.

 

[LouderVol]

That is counterintuitive. Wouldn’t protecting people protect the airlines from lawsuits?

what he said was that the safety protocols the airliners use decrease the risk of getting injured, but when/if you get injured its more likely to lead to death rather than just injury. and its easier for them to deal with death lawsuits rather than ongoing injuries.