Department of Government Efficiency - DOGE

[TheDeeble]

TBF this sounds like a corporate problem, as well. No one WFH should be using a private cell phone for work. If work is paying for it, that phone should be monitored as a desk phone. During working hours, they should be available on phone or Teams (Zoom, whatever) except for reasonable cases -- Lunch, bathroom, emergencies. In that case, that's the entire point of the status monitor on Teams (or Zoom whatever) to show availability.
If a company has good policy properly enforced, I don't see this issue cropping up as much and if it does, it's dealt with through the manager and a conference / correction.

It was adjustments made for Covid. Several different work groups were made WFH. But they didn't buy them work cell phones ect because at the time nobody knew how long it would last.

This isn't because they wfh. It sounds like this is a management problem, as opposed to a location problem.

Also, do you guys have a corporately defined Instant Message app? Like MS Teams, Google Meet, Slack, Discord? Every corp I've been with for the past 10-15 years has one that is widely used and when used correctly drastically reduces the use of email, phone calls and meetings. It's the middle ground between "When you see this..." communications like email (especially if you're sending it to 12 people-teams), and the immediacy of a phone call.



I've literally been in corporate training over the past decade at three different orgs--both private and gov't--that basically tell you:

Don't just email if you need it now or soon. Especially if you're emailing an entire team, as human nature is, "I'm busy and someone will respond."
Favor IM over the telephone. It's more productive. If they don't answer, a message in their IM app will be seen well before a Vxmail is listened to. They're far more likely to respond sooner with a message than a vxmail. It's also generational. Millennials and Zs are far more accustomed to texting than calling or being called. Just like in the 19th century, people were using telephones instead of telegraph.

And this was for in-office. It eased the transition to hybrid, which eased the transition to WFH.

If someone is in the office and you ask them to do something just as they are going on break, you probably would have some sort of conversation like:

"Hey, I emailed you an hour ago needed x, y and z. Can you do that? It's pretty important."
"Sure. I was just going to lunch. Will EOD be soon enough?"

That's when you guys discuss.

"Ouch. It's actually seriously behind and an emergency. I apologize for the late notice, but is there any way you can get that to use, and then go to lunch?"
<Insert rest of the conversation here.>

Again, that conversation has happened for me innumerable times in the office. Just like it will happen many more in a WFH environment.

I've managed slackers at home, and at WFH. I've had outstanding people in the office and WFH. Thus, I'm convinced it's a management issue, as opposed to a location issue.

I think the big questions are whether you've been griped at for not evolving with your company's evolving way of interacting? And if not, their managers should start managing. Manage them up, or manage them out.

Yes we use Teams and it's no better than sending someone an email. If they're not at their computer they don't see it. Or maybe they miss the little yellow box telling them there's an unread message. Or they're added to multiple teams groups and have become numb to getting constant message alerts that don't apply to them. Or they see it and just don't respond. If they're at the office they're at a office computer. Not walking the dog. Or playing video games. Or whatever else they're doing instead of work. There is a phone next to them and everyone within 100 feet can hear when someone is not answering their phone.

 

[hog88]

then do your job and manage those individuals who can't work from home successfully. taking a blanket statement of some not being able to work from home and applying it to all is just lazy and counterproductive.

100% agree. The only rub is when you get the whiny biatch that can't work from home starts pissing and moaning about being forced back to the office when others are not.

 

[jwells]

It was adjustments made for Covid. Several different work groups were made WFH. But they didn't buy them work cell phones ect because at the time nobody knew how long it would last.

Yes we use Teams and it's no better than sending someone an email. If they're not at their computer they don't see it. Or maybe they miss the little yellow box telling them there's an unread message. Or they're added to multiple teams groups and have become numb to getting constant message alerts that don't apply to them. Or they see it and just don't respond. If they're at the office they're at a office computer. Not walking the dog. Or playing video games. Or whatever else they're doing instead of work. There is a phone next to them and everyone within 100 feet can hear when someone is not answering their phone.

Yeah, this is a them problem rather than an indictment on WFH in general.

Corporate needs to fix their expectations and procedures.

 

[utvolpj]

What’s that got to do with anything I’ve said?

Why would there be geographical boundaries for remote workers? “Teams” don’t need to live in the same place.

Plenty. Once you've done it you understand the difficulties like I listed before. But I'm sure you know best

 

[VOLS INC.]

Do you realize how ridiculously impossible it is to fire a government employee?

What’s the difference between a bullet and a government employee? You can fire a bullet.


I do hope DOGE changes the current practices and norms.

 

[LouderVol]

Yet it that's what's happening. Companies get 90% of what they want for pennies on the dollar then fix it the 10%.

the more complicated the ask the lower that percentage is going to be. and typically the "efficiency" assumes that the ask is easy to communicate and get started.

 

[utvolpj]

100% agree. The only rub is when you get the whiny biatch that can't work from home starts pissing and moaning about being forced back to the office when others are not.

We were forced back into the office during covid when the warehouse workers got upset that they aren't allowed to work from home. Yeah, you drove a forklift!

 

[hog88]

the more complicated the ask the lower that percentage is going to be. and typically the "efficiency" assumes that the ask is easy to communicate and get started.

I'm just going off what a friend of mine has told me. He (not entirely sure what he does) customizes time and attendance systems is the best way I can describe it, he uses mostly foreign programmers due to cost and contracts a couple domestic guys to "polish" the product as he calls it.

 

[LouderVol]

Why would US based WFH desks be more secure? Remote work is remote work. It’s the people doing the jobs that are generally the security risk. Biden and Trump had classified documents unsecured in their homes.

granted I am not a network specialist or even have a real understanding of it, but at the simplest levels the further away you are the more points of contact that data goes through on the web. Even in the US remote connection to government networks is incredibly limited and can't even be "outsourced" to non government buildings/networks.

its not so much physical location as it is the way the network/internet connections work. you COULD have totally secure sites in India, and not secure locations in the US; but its typically going to be the inverse. there isn't an undersea cable from India to the US. it stops off in who knows how many different nations. each one of the points is another source of weakness.

 

[hog88]

We were forced back into the office during covid when the warehouse workers got upset that they aren't allowed to work from home. Yeah, you drove a forklift!

That's not exactly what I was talking about. I got zero bitching from my field techs about the office staff working from home while they were out on the road, they're smart enough to understand. I got a lot of bitching when I had to give the ultimatum to a few office staff that they return to the office or be let go. A couple were let go anyway.

 

[Orange_Crush]

This is a post by jwells directed at me:

The idea that me sitting in a chair at home vs at the office means someone in India could just do the job is pretty dumb.

My apologies to both. You quoted me. No worries.

 

[Orange_Crush]

Maybe DOGE can cut (expose) the red tape policies that result in bloated budgets.

Unless they're good reasons not to allow work to go outside the country.

 

[LouderVol]

100% agree. The only rub is when you get the whiny biatch that can't work from home starts pissing and moaning about being forced back to the office when others are not.

again thats just managing. I would imagine most managers recognize they have to deal with individuals and allow Suzy to leave at 3 on Thursdays to pick up her kids, or Bill gets in an hour earlier so he can leave an hour earlier. the people are going to piss and moan the same way.

 

[Orange_Crush]

Yes, foreigners write dirty code. Worse, they have no idea what in line documentation is.

Eastern EU programmers are better though and can usually be trusted to actually do something without handholding.

Also, there are cultural issues with overseas outsourcing. Some cultures, for some reason, seem to see the contract as the BEGINNING of the negotiation. lol

 

[Orange_Crush]

It was adjustments made for Covid. Several different work groups were made WFH. But they didn't buy them work cell phones ect because at the time nobody knew how long it would last.

Yes we use Teams and it's no better than sending someone an email. If they're not at their computer they don't see it. Or maybe they miss the little yellow box telling them there's an unread message. Or they're added to multiple teams groups and have become numb to getting constant message alerts that don't apply to them. Or they see it and just don't respond. If they're at the office they're at a office computer. Not walking the dog. Or playing video games. Or whatever else they're doing instead of work. There is a phone next to them and everyone within 100 feet can hear when someone is not answering their phone.

Ouch. That does sound excruciating. It also sounds like a corporate problem if these employees aren't managed up, and that is accepted.

 

[LouderVol]

I'm just going off what a friend of mine has told me. He (not entirely sure what he does) customizes time and attendance systems is the best way I can describe it, he uses mostly foreign programmers due to cost and contracts a couple domestic guys to "polish" the product as he calls it.

I deal with them in a different field so its not apples to apples by any stretch.

We can get them to do some of the most basic pieces of our set up, relatively well. at about a level we would expect from someone with 2 years of experience, even if we have worked with them longer than that. still needs oversight and fixing. after the basic stuff they are useless and require more oversight time than would be required to do it right the first time.

 

[hog88]

again thats just managing. I would imagine most managers recognize they have to deal with individuals and allow Suzy to leave at 3 on Thursdays to pick up her kids, or Bill gets in an hour earlier so he can leave an hour earlier. the people are going to piss and moan the same way.

Without a doubt. I couldn't imagine having to deal with 50+ individuals in a dept, I can understand the decision to go to one size fits all policies in large companies.

 

[LouderVol]

It was adjustments made for Covid. Several different work groups were made WFH. But they didn't buy them work cell phones ect because at the time nobody knew how long it would last.

Yes we use Teams and it's no better than sending someone an email. If they're not at their computer they don't see it. Or maybe they miss the little yellow box telling them there's an unread message. Or they're added to multiple teams groups and have become numb to getting constant message alerts that don't apply to them. Or they see it and just don't respond. If they're at the office they're at a office computer. Not walking the dog. Or playing video games. Or whatever else they're doing instead of work. There is a phone next to them and everyone within 100 feet can hear when someone is not answering their phone.

all of that is present in the office too. I am entirely work in the office, and am terrible at picking on the Teams thing. mostly because its just another thing to keep track of instead of focusing on doing work.

at work you also have the innumerable side conversations, coworkers chatting with you, being on the phone themselves, including the managers who think its appropriate to have conversations on speaker phone. then you have whatever "office culture" bs your employer pushes.

at least anecdotally I am far less interrupted when I work from home. like pretty much never, vs almost constantly/once an hour in the office.

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

Plenty. Once you've done it you understand the difficulties like I listed before. But I'm sure you know best

Are those “difficulties” so severe that equally competent engineers based in India costing $50k/year can’t do the job and they need to go to $150k/year US citizens?

 

[Orange_Crush]

all of that is present in the office too. I am entirely work in the office, and am terrible at picking on the Teams thing. mostly because its just another thing to keep track of instead of focusing on doing work.

at work you also have the innumerable side conversations, coworkers chatting with you, being on the phone themselves, including the managers who think its appropriate to have conversations on speaker phone. then you have whatever "office culture" bs your employer pushes.

at least anecdotally I am far less interrupted when I work from home. like pretty much never, vs almost constantly/once an hour in the office.

The down side of that is with less face time with your boss and teammates, you often have to follow intuition per everyone's appraisal of you. WFT often necessitates some purposeful sections of 1x1s with leadership.

 

[Swiftybaby]

DOGE feels more like political theater than political reformation to me.

I am not expecting much in results. I expect a whole lot of noise.

Anything involving mtg is theater at this point

 

[utvolpj]

Are those “difficulties” so severe that equally competent engineers based in India costing $50k/year can’t do the job and they need to go to $150k/year US citizens?

I said people in the us but not necessarily a citizen. But yes, there is a certain understanding to software work that doesn't really happen when the devs are not familiar with the us. They just interpret requirements differently

 

[ButchPlz]

No, I wouldn’t imagine remote firms/owners would cut remote workers.

I don’t have a lot of experience (hardly any) in small/boutique orgs.

I spent 10 years at a blue blood fortune 100.
Then did a 3 year stint with Big Tech.
Then a few years with an international conglomerate.
Now I’m back at a more traditional fortune 100.

All adopted remote/hybrid during Covid.
All have, or have started, paring it back.

There is no stalemate or power split in Big Corporate America.

They want them back in office. So they will come back to office, or they won’t work there. And there are fewer remote options to go to if they leave.

And they’re not “firing” the remote workers - they’re requiring their return and accepting the 10-20% attrition that comes with it.

The big 4 firm I work with was having way more attrition than 10-20% when they tried to force return to office. It got so bad they totally rescinded it and "left it up to individual projects", i.e., kicked the can down the road. The attrition they did got they've been struggling to fill.

Like I said, it really depends on the company and the culture.

 

[Vol8188]

The government employs lawyers who work from home, yes. Can’t just replace them with some random person in China

Feels racist to me. Chinese attorneys are just as capable and just as trustworthy as American attorneys

 

[82_VOL_83]

So putting money into the hands of “already struggling families” is bad?

The bulk buying power doesn’t make up for the excessive waste in the system. You can’t pay feds to send money to paid local officials, who then pay people to buy food with that money, and then pay people to cook that food, serve that food, and clean up. You can’t do all that cheaper than you can simply send money directly to the end user.

Not sure why you think nutritional value will be 15-20% of what it previously was

3.75 seems to be a number you made up. School lunches are cheap to the end user because the rest of us pay for it. So no, they’re not actually supplying meals that cheap.

I don’t even know what you mean by a higher tier of food. But no, sending money to a federal agency to then send it to a local agency that will then hire numerous people to cook/clean/serve these kids is in no way more efficient than directly giving the money to the families.

One of your biggest things you seem to be missing too in your argument that you seem to see as more caring and virtuous than our counter argument, is that if what you’re saying is true….and these children are truly being neglected…then putting a bandaid on the problem (giving them one to two meals a day some days) is obviously not the optimal approach. And is only exposing these children to further harm. If your parents are too sorry to feed you, there’s going to be a giant overlap between that group of children and children who are being sexually abused, physically abused, etc.

So why hide the problem and allow further harm to the child?

I wonder how many tat's, smokes and bags of weed that extra money would buy?