Derrick Henry...New Car.....Bama shenanigans?

[bamawriter]

Oh I don't mind going there again. I said if they want to play football they should comply with the rules which include not taking cars and cash under the table. If they are not, as I clearly said, they have the choice to make other decisions. Your premise seems to be that any kid wanting to play in the NFL has a "right" to play college ball. I disagree. There are a lot of other careers I would have preferred to the one I have spent 32 years in but they either 1. did not pay enough to support my family or 2. I did not have the skills for or 3. I was not willing to spend the time and make the financial sacrifices to qualify for. I don't see athletes as being any different. No one OWES them the opportunity to play ball. They don't have any special RIGHT that mandates they must have a shot at the NFL. Nearly 40 years ago I was being recruited by UT to play BAsketball. Then I blew a knee out and had to go another direction. My parents and I would have been ecstatic to have had a scholarship. Just as they were when my brother got a football scholly. (Though he had a mental problem and turned down both Johnny Majors and Bear Bryant and chose Old Miss). No one screams louder for the Vols than I do, but it is a sport, and a privilege. And if a player actually chooses a legitimate major and applies himself, the payoff come throughout life in the form of pay checks.

Sorry if you don't agree but I'm old school all the way. You only have the right to:
1. What the Constitution says is your right as an American citizen
2. What you EARN
Playing in the NFL is only in the 2nd category.

But the law of the land is opposed to monopolies. The NFL benefits from an anti-trust exemption which they, for all practical purposes, pass along to the colleges via the three year rule. They tell capable, legal citizens of working age that they are not allowed to enter a market for the services that they are otherwise qualified to perform.

A college scholarship is no small item, but it does not cost the school the sticker price to waive it for athletes, or anyone else. And the athletes are prohibited from negotiating for their compensation packages, unlinke any other marketplace.

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

To say athletes do not have enough time to work 15-20 hours a week is insane.

 

[VolSteve]

But the law of the land is opposed to monopolies. The NFL benefits from an anti-trust exemption which they, for all practical purposes, pass along to the colleges via the three year rule. They tell capable, legal citizens of working age that they are not allowed to enter a market for the services that they are otherwise qualified to perform.

A college scholarship is no small item, but it does not cost the school the sticker price to waive it for athletes, or anyone else. And the athletes are prohibited from negotiating for their compensation packages, unlinke any other marketplace.

We all get it now. Alabama and LSU fans think it is not only acceptable but a God given right to pay their football players. That's a shocker...or not.

 

[bamawriter]

We all get it now. Alabama and LSU fans think it is not only acceptable but a God given right to pay their football players. That's a shocker...or not.

Not at all. But it's morally bankrupt to argue that poor kids should just stay broke for three years becuse they might get to opportunity to make big money at the end. And all the while the school makes millions.

 

[LSU-SIU]

See previous post. And don't use meatballs to argue with Vols. We eat BBQ. You LSU fans can keep the meatballs; I'll take ribs.

Tell you what, have UT tell Butch Jones he is going to be paid in ribs and he can't get ribs from a 3rd party and see what happens.

 

[LSU-SIU]

We all get it now. Alabama and LSU fans think it is not only acceptable but a God given right to pay their football players. That's a shocker...or not.

It's a God given Right for EVERYONE to be employed or to be given Gifts, if someone is willing to be on the other side doing the employing or giving. The rest of the United States works like this and probably the vast majority of the world. You seriously don't know this?

 

[VolSteve]

It's a God given Right for EVERYONE to be employed or to be given Gifts, if someone is willing to be on the other side doing the employing or giving. The rest of the United States works like this and probably the vast majority of the world. You seriously don't know this?

:loco:

It is a GAME not employment though the value of that scholarship is greater than what most any 18-22 year could make in a job with only a HS education. I sure wish my son was getting one.

And your Bible apparently reads different from mine. But I've read mine a few times. Good night and go eat some grass with your coach.

 

[VolSteve]

Tell you what, have UT tell Butch Jones he is going to be paid in ribs and he can't get ribs from a 3rd party and see what happens.

:cray:

Butch Jones isn't 18 with a HS education. He's paid his dues and earned himself a salary. That's how it works.

 

[Burger]

It's a God given Right for EVERYONE to be employed or to be given Gifts, if someone is willing to be on the other side doing the employing or giving. The rest of the United States works like this and probably the vast majority of the world. You seriously don't know this?

Like free food, no bills, no rent, and no liability from getting their education. I'd appreciate those gifts.

 

[VolunteerHillbilly]

It's a God given Right for EVERYONE to be employed or to be given Gifts, if someone is willing to be on the other side doing the employing or giving. The rest of the United States works like this and probably the vast majority of the world. You seriously don't know this?

Not actually true. There are laws that require equal employment opportunities and you can create a contractual right to employment but there's no fundamental right to work or receive gifts. If college players don't like the NCAA rules and don't want to wait 3 years for the NFL they can create their own league and try to compete with the NFL. There's obviously a lot more blind eyes being turned. 30 years ago Boz's corvette was a front page news item and now it's fairly commonplace for student athlete of limited means to drive cars that they or their families cannot possibly afford. I understand the concept of a loan against future potential income but who is the guarantor if the borrower gets hurt or just flames out and doesn't make the NFL? Does the local auto dealer offer the same financing option to other potential high income earners like pre-med students? This stuff is going on at a lot of places but it's going to draw more attention at programs that have had recent success.

 

[LSU-SIU]

:loco:
It is a GAME not employment though the value of that scholarship is greater than what most any 18-22 year could make in a job with only a HS education. I sure wish my son was getting one.

If you are say they are being "compensated" for service, you are then saying they are an "employee". If they are an "employee" then, in general, they will fall into the labor laws of the State. Look in your State code, I would be very surprised, if someone can pay employees with scholarships or meatballs, for obvious reasons. Now I am not saying they all do (are employees) currently, but I would say the majority of them do. However, all is irrelevant to me because... whether they are employees or just students, in general, it's none of their business what they receive from 3rd parties.

And your Bible apparently reads different from mine. But I've read mine a few times. Good night and go eat some grass with your coach.

The Bible has nothing to do with it. I have God given Rights and you could burn all the bibles up, what is in the bible is irrelevant.

 

[VolSteve]

Not at all. But it's morally bankrupt to argue that poor kids should just stay broke for three years becuse they might get to opportunity to make big money at the end. And all the while the school makes millions.

So "poor" kids with athletic skills have special rights in your opinion not to have to stay poor? While it is ok for a poor kid like I was who had blown out knees or who are not athletes to stay poor until they graduate and get a job? Hell I lived on PB & jelly and onion sandwiches on weekends. Thank God I had some fishing and hunting skills. Lots of college kids are poor man but athletes on scholarship don't have to worry about food.

 

[LSU-SIU]

Not actually true. There are laws that require equal employment opportunities and you can create a contractual right to employment but there's no fundamental right to work or receive gifts.

Not sure what this means. No you do not have Right to receive gifts and work, but you do have a God Given Right to work and to gifts if someone is on the other side.

If college players don't like the NCAA rules and don't want to wait 3 years for the NFL they can create their own league and try to compete with the NFL.

More like the NCAA can go to the North Pole, if they don't like the laws here. According to you, if the mob wants to make their own rules, and if you don't want to play by those rules, your problem. That is not how works... welcome to the world of injunctions.

 

[bamawriter]

So "poor" kids with athletic skills have special rights in your opinion not to have to stay poor? While it is ok for a poor kid like I was who had blown out knees or who are not athletes to stay poor until they graduate and get a job? Hell I lived on PB & jelly and onion sandwiches on weekends. Thank God I had some fishing and hunting skills. Lots of college kids are poor man but athletes on scholarship don't have to worry about food.

Would you be willing to be paid in food for life? Or how about being paid with perpetual education?

 

[LSU-SIU]

Like free food, no bills, no rent, and no liability from getting their education. I'd appreciate those gifts.

I see nothing wrong with them getting scholarships. It seems to be an attempt at some backwards logic going on here.

 

[VolSteve]

Would you be willing to be paid in food for life? Or how about being paid with perpetual education?

Where the heck did you pull that from? I was talking about while students are in college. The purpose of college is to obtain a degree and subsequently use that degree to obtain employment. The purpose of college is not to provide "poor kids" an avenue to play in the NFL. That may be the outcome for some but not a right. Let's try your argument in another field. If a kid wants to be a nuclear physicist should he be given cash and cars? Because those jobs pretty much require a degree(s). So the NFL requires 3 years of college. Try getting a job with NASA with just 3 years of college. My point is the pay in all fields generally starts AFTER college. I don't get your argument or LSU-SIU's that somehow being poor or being an athlete gives someone additional "God given" rights to start earning their pay while still in college. I don't know your background but my experience in college was that most students were struggling to meet expenses; much more so than the athletes were.

 

[VolunteerHillbilly]

Not sure what this means. No you do not have Right to receive gifts and work, but you do have a God Given Right to work and to gifts if someone is on the other side.



More like the NCAA can go to the North Pole, if they don't like the laws here. According to you, if the mob wants to make their own rules, and if you don't want to play by those rules, your problem. That is not how works... welcome to the world of injunctions.

The laws of God don't mean much in the land separation between church and state. I assume you're located here.

 

[LSU-SIU]

The laws of God don't mean much in the land separation between church and state. I assume you're located here.

It has nothing to do with separation of church and State, my Rights do not come from the State or a church. The Supreme Court has says it differently... the Rights existed before they were even created.

Which is why I laugh at the 2nd amendment people, for your Rights to bear arms existed before there was a Constitution, a United States, and a one Supreme Court. Which is exactly what the Supreme Court says over and over, but nobody listens.

Either way, pretty irrelevant to the discussion, nor is this a separates of church and State issue.

I mean it's pretty simple, if they (schools) think they are correct, they should impose the same thing on coaches, staff, professors, etc.

Good luck with that.

 

[LSU-SIU]

Try getting a job with NASA with just 3 years of college. My point is the pay in all fields generally starts AFTER college. I don't get your argument or LSU-SIU's that somehow being poor or being an athlete gives someone additional "God given" rights to start earning their pay while still in college. I don't know your background but my experience in college was that most students were struggling to meet expenses; much more so than the athletes were.

1. I never said or implied what you said I said.
2. Most of what you writing is really irrelevant.

If you are correct and the schools are correct, they should do the same thing to all school personnel and see how long it takes Butch Jones to have them served.

I kind of feel like this discussion is beating a dead horse. The schools are about to be in a nightmare, if they don't get ahead of this, the NCAA isn't going to be able help them and will probably be the first to throw the schools under the bus.

 

[bamawriter]

Where the heck did you pull that from? I was talking about while students are in college. The purpose of college is to obtain a degree and subsequently use that degree to obtain employment. The purpose of college is not to provide "poor kids" an avenue to play in the NFL. That may be the outcome for some but not a right. Let's try your argument in another field. If a kid wants to be a nuclear physicist should he be given cash and cars? Because those jobs pretty much require a degree(s). So the NFL requires 3 years of college. Try getting a job with NASA with just 3 years of college. My point is the pay in all fields generally starts AFTER college. I don't get your argument or LSU-SIU's that somehow being poor or being an athlete gives someone additional "God given" rights to start earning their pay while still in college. I don't know your background but my experience in college was that most students were struggling to meet expenses; much more so than the athletes were.

If a kid were on a nuclear physics schollie, no one would give a crap if a third party gave him a car. Heck, a "booster" could give him a car, a house, and a monkey butler and no one would raise an eyebrow. So, why are athletes different?

 

[IBlvNTmWrk]

If a kid were on a nuclear physics schollie, no one would give a crap if a third party gave him a car. Heck, a "booster" could give him a car, a house, and a monkey butler and no one would raise an eyebrow. So, why are athletes different?

Because physicists don't play football every Saturday in the fall.

If this is your argument, then the solution is simple... change the name from "collegiate" sports to "semi-pro" sports and don't even offer scholarships or an education. You should know as well as anyone that the scenario you're describing above will lead to whichever university (or booster) is willing to pay the most will get the best athletes. And at that point, just watch how attendance will drop. I thoroughly enjoy watching amateur sports... athletes, at least whom somewhat, want to play the game because they love the game. I care much less about watching a bunch of millionaires go at it on Sunday afternoons.

And then, by the way, wouldn't it also be appropriate to extend this same logic to high school sports? Some schools make a lot of money off of their football programs. Isn't that also taking advantage of the kids since they don't get anything in return except an education?

 

[onevol74]

1. I never said or implied what you said I said.
2. Most of what you writing is really irrelevant.

If you are correct and the schools are correct, they should do the same thing to all school personnel and see how long it takes Butch Jones to have them served.

I kind of feel like this discussion is beating a dead horse. The schools are about to be in a nightmare, if they don't get ahead of this, the NCAA isn't going to be able help them and will probably be the first to throw the schools under the bus.

Beating a dead horse? You seem to be the only one thinking what we post is irrelevant. In the grand scheme of things college athletics are not relevant and these privileged players can go join a farm league and get paid. Otherwise, they can enjoy their free ride and receive fair and just benefits. The NCAA and colleges in no way control their hopes and well being. They are not forced into the college systems. They are privileged to have the opportunity they have.

 

[LSU-SIU]

Beating a dead horse? You seem to be the only one thinking what we post is irrelevant.

Most of the stuff being brought up is people in this thread are irrelevant to the topic I have commented on.

In the grand scheme of things college athletics are not relevant and these privileged players can go join a farm league and get paid.

Those are not the only choices available to them, which is why the lawsuits are only beginning.

Otherwise, they can enjoy their free ride and receive fair and just benefits.

There is no such thing as a free ride, matter of fact, you are basically admitting that there is no free ride as the player must somehow give up there revenue. Sorry, it doesn't work that way in the rest of the world, which the colleges are finding out.

The NCAA and colleges in no way control their hopes and well being. They are not forced into the college systems. They are privileged to have the opportunity they have.

Try that on Butch Jones and see what happens. Corporate entities exist at the privilege of the State... you are confused.

I'm sorry to inform you but the limited choices you present are not all the choices, which are being worked out right now. The lawsuits which are in progress are only the beginning of the crap storm that is coming.

Your strawman argument is to present limited choices and say that is the way it is... yet if you were right the NW players would have not even been allowed to vote on their union status.

It's like a Nazi guard saying, you can get into the gas chamber or be shot outside of the chamber.... well there is a third choice... try and take out the guard.. .of course the guard is not going to tell you that is a choice.

The colleges are going to be sued for so many different things your head is going to spin, trying to defend their actions seems futile. NW couldn't even handle a freaking labor union determination, wait till the bigger suits are served.

Under your strange theory of privilege I could employ a person, pay them 1 meatball a week, tell them any 3rd party funds they receive have to come to me, I could then put them in a shack, and work them as long as I want... maybe send them to a basket weaving class, oh then I can get with all the employers and come up with a contract to where if you leave... we blacklist you.

I assure you, you set up a business like the colleges and NCAA are doing... you would be in jail.

 

[VolSteve]

Most of the stuff being brought up is people in this thread are irrelevant to the topic I have commented on.



Those are not the only choices available to them, which is why the lawsuits are only beginning.


There is no such thing as a free ride, matter of fact, you are basically admitting that there is no free ride as the player must somehow give up there revenue. Sorry, it doesn't work that way in the rest of the world, which the colleges are finding out.



Try that on Butch Jones and see what happens. Corporate entities exist at the privilege of the State... you are confused.

I'm sorry to inform you but the limited choices you present are not all the choices, which are being worked out right now. The lawsuits which are in progress are only the beginning of the crap storm that is coming.

Your strawman argument is to present limited choices and say that is the way it is... yet if you were right the NW players would have not even been allowed to vote on their union status.

It's like a Nazi guard saying, you can get into the gas chamber or be shot outside of the chamber.... well there is a third choice... try and take out the guard.. .of course the guard is not going to tell you that is a choice.

The colleges are going to be sued for so many different things your head is going to spin, trying to defend their actions seems futile. NW couldn't even handle a freaking labor union determination, wait till the bigger suits are served.

You sound like you must be an ACLU lawyer.

 

[LSU-SIU]

You sound like you must be an ACLU lawyer.

Not at all. All of this is common sense.

1. I don't necessarily think all colleges sport players are "employees", some probably are, some are probably not.
2. I don't necessarily think all college sport players need to receive "compensation", but some probably do.
3. I think colleges can setup their programs to avoid "employees" and "compensation" requirements.
4. I think, if schools want to run a business, like many of them are doing then they should comply with existing law, which they are not.
5. Either way, in general, it's none of the colleges business whether players are receiving funds from 3rd parties.
6. Colleges should not be trying to stop goods and services and a free market.

If it's such a "privilege" then the schools would have never had to form a cartel to start with.

No other business that I know of is or would be allowed to run like a sub-section of college sports. Which is why the lawsuits are in progress and many more are to come.

Well, I think this subject is dead for me. good luck, please let me know when Butch Jones, Les Miles and Nick Saban agree to work for meatballs or ribs. Haha.