Different camera angle on Pig Fumble. MUST SEE!

You say that like it is an absolute fact. I don't think that was the case, and I've backed it up. Our whole point was that it was not indisputable.

Does anyone have the exact screen shot where the tip of the ball touched the plane?

Dude I'm a big a homer as they come. I've literally been told my lack of objectivity makes it hard to watch games with me. With all that said you watch that replay once and it couldn't be more obvious he lost the ball.

I don't know why you need one of the ball touching the plane. You've posted one on the half yard where he's clearly lost it so unless it flew backwards back into his hands it doesn't matter.
 
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Nope. I don't have a screen shot. I say it because I saw him lose the ball before crossing the plane. I saw it and I don't see how you didn't. Threads like this make the UT fan base look ignorant.

Then please associate yourself with a thread worthy of your intelligence.
 
Stop with the silly video conspiracy theories. He lost the ball, and lost it well before the goal line--at about the half yard line. That's it. He lost it, and we lost.

You apparently have not viewed both vids and done your homework. If you had, you would not state that position.
 
Dude I'm a big a homer as they come. I've literally been told my lack of objectivity makes it hard to watch games with me. With all that said you watch that replay once and it couldn't be more obvious he lost the ball.

I don't know why you need one of the ball touching the plane. You've posted one on the half yard where he's clearly lost it so unless it flew backwards back into his hands it doesn't matter.

alton-howard-fumble.jpg

You are entitled to your opinion, but I ABSOLUTELY DISAGREE that this screenshot "clearly" showed he lost the ball on the 1/2 (especially once you see the other video again posted below).

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10101730034997885&l=8763749815101661955
 
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how are you going to argue that a end zone view is better than a side line view when dealing with distance? do you understand the concept of angles? It was a fumble. It sucks, but it was a fumble

Take it step by step ...

You need both vids to see what happened when. Between them their is not only enough evidence to say it is "inconclusive" which makes it a TD, but enough evidence to prove it actually was a TD without doubt.

#1 The ez view shows conclusively that Pig actually gripped the tip of the ball when he shifted hands. It was NOT coming out at the 1/2YL like the side view seemed to show. He had control with one hand.

#2 Go back to the side view. You'll see him switch hands and appear to "push" the ball into the EZ from @ the 1/2 YL as soon as it left 2 hands. Remember the other view proves he was NOT pushing but controlling the tip originally.

#3 Look at ez view and see when left hand actually lost control and it squirts out of left hand. It happens when the ball is shaken loose by the defenders hit on Pigs swinging feet. That is the moment where control is lost.

#4 Go back to side view and see where feet hit defender and ball shake and change trajectory down. It's PAST the plane of the Goal Line. It's a TD. Pig had control to the plane and maybe 1/4-1/2 yd past before losing control.

It WAS a TD, it was a proper on-field call, it was overturned improperly and furthermore, the debate raging on is proof of itself that this is not conclusive enough to overturn.

The replay booth sent back a very quick reversal. I thougth the same thing at the time, but made a mental note at the time that I would watch it again. When I did it is hard to tell until the endzone view on FB came available.

Now, if anyone wants to actually go through these logical steps, then they can see this for what it is. Unfortunately, it was not important enough for the replay crew who made a knee-jerk decision like I and most others did.
 
Take it step by step ...

You need both vids to see what happened when. Between them their is not only enough evidence to say it is "inconclusive" which makes it a TD, but enough evidence to prove it actually was a TD without doubt.

#1 The ez view shows conclusively that Pig actually gripped the tip of the ball when he shifted hands. It was NOT coming out at the 1/2YL like the side view seemed to show. He had control with one hand.

#2 Go back to the side view. You'll see him switch hands and appear to "push" the ball into the EZ from @ the 1/2 YL as soon as it left 2 hands. Remember the other view proves he was NOT pushing but controlling the tip originally.

#3 Look at ez view and see when left hand actually lost control and it squirts out of left hand. It happens when the ball is shaken loose by the defenders hit on Pigs swinging feet. That is the moment where control is lost.

#4 Go back to side view and see where feet hit defender and ball shake and change trajectory down. It's PAST the plane of the Goal Line. It's a TD. Pig had control to the plane and maybe 1/4-1/2 yd past before losing control.

It WAS a TD, it was a proper on-field call, it was overturned improperly and furthermore, the debate raging on is proof of itself that this is not inconclusive.

The replay booth sent back a very quick reversal. I thougth the same thing at the time, but made a mental note at the time that I would watch it again. When I did it is hard to tell until the endzone view on FB came available.

Now, if anyone wants to actually go through these logical steps, then they can see this for what it is. Unfortunately, it was not important enough for the replay crew who made a knee-jerk decision like I and most others did.

I'm sorry but this is silly; because a minority of Vol fans are complaining on a messageboard doesn't prove it's inconclusive, it just proves there are some Vol fans who can't accept the ruling.
 
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Unless he did view them all, and still thinks it's clear it was a fumble.

I hope they did that, but I wonder sometimes. That ruling came really quick. Obviously, I looked into this b/c I'm a Vol. But, this replay problem gets under my skin a lot watching other games too.

Replay officials have a bit too much power IMO to overturn calls. I think they are too liberal in fulfilling the burden of "conclusive". Calls that are "fuzzy" get reversed a lot in the SEC. One example is that pic by that great Safety LSU had a few years back, Peterson iirc. He picked UA to seal the game and the call got reversed by the possibility of one vid shot that showed his toe may have touched out of bounds. It was truly inconclusive, but got reversed. UA gets new life and wins.

I would love to see other angles. More info helps. Where was that overhead cam CBS was using all game anyway?
 
I'm sorry but this is silly; because a minority of Vol fans are complaining on a messageboard doesn't prove it's inconclusive, it just proves there are some Vol fans who can't accept the ruling.

OK, I'll give you that. It's not proof, but it is an indicator of a question IMO. :good!:
 
OK, I'll give you that. It's not proof, but it is an indicator of a question IMO. :good!:

Yes but you have to be careful with that logic. By that logic, Vandy fans have an argument for anything, and we all know Vandy fans never have a good argument for anything.
 
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You are entitled to your opinion, but I ABSOLUTELY DISAGREE that this screenshot "clearly" showed he lost the ball on the 1/2 (especially once you see the other video again posted below).

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10101730034997885&l=8763749815101661955

In that shot his thumb has come off the ball. Once that happens unless he has super glue on his finger tips then he's lost control. Either way I'm not gonna change your mind so it's irrelevant.

With all that said I doubt there's a a single UT fan on the planet that wanted that to be a TD more then I did (maybe many that wanted equal but I doubt a single one more). Once I saw the replay ONCE (all it took to see he lost it into the end zone) I told my wife "lets hope the refs somehow screw this up cause that was clearly a fumble"
 
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I also thought it was a fumble, but this shot makes me wonder. He is clearly at least touching the ball when it crossed the goal line, but he doesn't have possession IMO. Idk how you decide that, but I no longer think it was clearly a fumble as I did before.
 

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I also thought it was a fumble, but this shot makes me wonder. He is clearly at least touching the ball when it crossed the goal line, but he doesn't have possession IMO. Idk how you decide that, but I no longer think it was clearly a fumble as I did before.

And his thumb is on the ball.
 
And his thumb is on the ball.

Yes, but is that enough to say he has possession? I don't think so.

Either way, it's going to take me a while to get past that one. The only thing that would make it better is if we beat South Carolina. (or Bama). I wanted that game so badly. I can't stop thinking about the positive reaction across the country for Butch and the entire program. Really really tough to swallow.
 
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Like I said I'd gladly be wrong (not that it would matter at this point) but I've watched it 100+ times and not once have I thought that maybe it wasn't a fumble. It's been been fairly obvious every time.
 
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This is probably the worst possible angle to see whether it was a fumble or not... side view shows that pig lost control of the ball well before the goal line.
 
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From the head on position, you can't tell if he was in control of the ball. The side view video shows separation between his hand and the ball before the goal line.

Sad, but true.
 
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This is probably the worst possible angle to see whether it was a fumble or not... side view shows that pig lost control of the ball well before the goal line.

I don't know how many times I have to say it. Of course it is a bad angle to see when it broke the plain. It only shows he had control of the ball with his left hand till right when the ball came out.
 
From the head on position, you can't tell if he was in control of the ball. The side view video shows separation between his hand and the ball before the goal line.

Sad, but true.

That's a fair opinion and you are entitled to it. I think it does show he had control though.
 
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I don't know how many times I have to say it. Of course it is a bad angle to see when it broke the plain. It only shows he had control of the ball with his left hand till right when the ball came out.

I wish you would quit saying it though... and one usually does have control of the ball until it comes out of their hand,in this case the 1/2 yard line...you gave it a good try,but the call has been made,it doesn't matter anymore...just ask Iowa St...
 
That's a fair opinion and you are entitled to it. I think it does show he had control though.

I'm with you. Not gonna convince these others. I don't think we win anyway. Refs were not gonna let GA out of there without a win. Too much money at stake for them To let a national title contender lose to lil ole TN.
 

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