Does this hurt recruitment?

#126
#126
EricberryFAN said:
The only thing they could say is, "See, even though he was projected to be the Heisman winner during a part of the season, NFL teams don't like the system he runs and that's why he fell to the 3rd". Obviously, Heupel would say, he got injured and his age effected him slipping in the draft. I don't understand how any of yall don't see that point, but I agree with everything else. There's way more positives in the draft than Hendon falling to the 3rd round.
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I just don't think it's a very valid point
 
#127
#127
Not too long ago we weren't getting anyone drafted....Now we are getting players drafted and it's hurting us?

There was a small NAIA football program here that played in a small Middle School type stadium.....They played good football and had players drafted over the years.....If you can play they will find you.
 
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#128
#128
Dougie_D said:
I’m wondering if our offense scheme is too simplified for NFL teams and it doesn’t give a player the development they need for the next level. If that’s true, will TN recruitment take a downfall?
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It is a false narrative. False narratives have to be opposed by words but beaten by facts. No college system has NFL complexity. What AR ran at UF wasn't. What Levis ran at UK wasn't. So that notion is MASSIVELY overstated.

Hooker who was basically dead on arrival RE the draft two years ago was selected in the 3rd round while recovering from an ACL. The write up someone posted here from a writer in Michigan was the tone you would use of a 1st rounder or at least someone you fully expect to become the starter. He dissed UT's system a bit too but overall recognized the skill the system allowed Hooker to demonstrate.

How long had it been since UT placed a QB this high? Dobbs was taken in the 4th round. JG undrafted. Bray undrafted. Ainge 5th round. Clausen undrafted. Worley undrafted. Crompton 5th round. Martin 5th round.

To the best of my knowledge... Hooker was just the highest UT QB draft pick since Manning.
 
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#129
#129
EricberryFAN said:
Yes he was. Depends on the week obviously but you can Google Hendon Hooker Heisman odds and find multiple projections naming him the favorite during the season when he was healthy. Particularly after beating Bama.
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None of the ones I had seen ... but there were obviously dozens of them.

I guess you are right... Hendon Hooker being a Heisman candidate at one point but then being drafted in the 3rd round is going to absolutely devastate our ability to recruit. How shall we ever recover from this calamity?

How will Georgia for that matter? Can't you say the same thing about Stetson Bennett?

Your argument was brain dead stupid.
 
#132
#132
BowlBrother85 said:
Hendon Hooker was never projected as the favorite for the Heisman Trophy.
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https://www.si.com/college/usc/football/2022-heisman-odds-hendon-hooker-new-favorite

Ohio State's C.J. Stroud has been the favorite to win this year's Heisman Trophy since the preseason, but Hendon Hooker has now replaced Stroud as the new favorite following a four-touchdown performance in Tennessee's 44-6 win over Kentucky.

According to multiple sources, Hooker now has -110 odds to win the Heisman, with Stroud now behind him at +190.
 
#133
#133
Dougie_D said:
I’m wondering if our offense scheme is too simplified for NFL teams and it doesn’t give a player the development they need for the next level. If that’s true, will TN recruitment take a downfall?
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If it was that simple, everyone would be doing it.
 
#134
#134
BowlBrother85 said:
None of the ones I had seen ... but there were obviously dozens of them.

I guess you are right... Hendon Hooker being a Heisman candidate at one point but then being drafted in the 3rd round is going to absolutely devastate our ability to recruit. How shall we ever recover from this calamity?

How will Georgia for that matter? Can't you say the same thing about Stetson Bennett?

Your argument was brain dead stupid.
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You got issues man. Go take your medicine. You're all riled up for no reason.

"My argument" is me saying this is the only thing I can see our rivals trying to negatively recruit against us, which isn't a very strong case. Those are the facts though. Hopefully the 17 year olds understand and see your points. Which I wasn't disagreeing with except Hendon was a front runner for the Heisman at some point(facts).
 
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#135
#135
EricberryFAN said:
You got issues man. Go take your medicine.

"My argument" is me saying this is the only thing I can see our rivals trying to negatively recruit against us, which isn't a very strong case. Those are the facts though. Hopefully the 17 year olds understand and see your points. Which I wasn't disagreeing with except Hendon was a front runner for the Heisman at some point(facts).
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Is it going to hurt Georgia's recruiting that Stetson Bennett was a Heisman candidate but then wasn't drafted high? It's a ridiculous notion.
 
#136
#136
WilcoVolsFan said:
https://www.si.com/college/usc/football/2022-heisman-odds-hendon-hooker-new-favorite

Ohio State's C.J. Stroud has been the favorite to win this year's Heisman Trophy since the preseason, but Hendon Hooker has now replaced Stroud as the new favorite following a four-touchdown performance in Tennessee's 44-6 win over Kentucky.

According to multiple sources, Hooker now has -110 odds to win the Heisman, with Stroud now behind him at +190.
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Yeah ... our recruiting is screwed.
 
#137
#137
Dougie_D said:
I’m wondering if our offense scheme is too simplified for NFL teams and it doesn’t give a player the development they need for the next level. If that’s true, will TN recruitment take a downfall?
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Given it's obvious success, and if it is so simplified, why isn't everyone switching to it, pros and college? Maybe because it isn't so simple?
 
#138
#138
BowlBrother85 said:
Is it going to hurt Georgia's recruiting that Stetson Bennett was a Heisman candidate but then wasn't drafted high? It's a ridiculous notion.
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You're making irrelevant points. It's not about if it will or won't. That's up to the young kid to decide. My point is they will try to sell that to kids.
 
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#139
#139
youcancallmeAl said:
Given it's obvious success, and if it is so simplified, why isn't everyone switching to it, pros and college? Maybe because it isn't so simple?
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The hashmarks in NFL would make the spacing of the offense less effective. NFL more likely to have safety’s and star/money players that can play coverage on the slot release. Less college teams run it because right now the Briles tree has less branches. Bud Elliot was saying that Huepel didn’t run this offense until the last year or so he was at mizzou when Ellarbe or one of his current assistants introduced it to him. It’s still kind of a new offense that coaches in theory could run but not as effectively and apparently they have all been very tight lipped about the detailed ins and outs. So anyone that knows enough football can explain it but they can’t necessarily execute and replicate it. As Golesh takes it and teaches guys and then they move on the tree will expand. And then teams will adjust (their recruiting or defensive scheme) to try and beat it because of its prevalences. Or hashmarks will change, or it will truly be the first unbeatable offense.
 
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#140
#140
Darnell Wright drafted at #10, was a steal who made Bama’s overall #3 pick Will Anderson disappear in their last face to face meeting. My recall could easily be faulty but I cannot recall young Anderson’s name called once by announcers.
 
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#141
#141
EricberryFAN said:
I don't disagree at all. All I was saying, is other schools will "try" to use Hendon Hookers late draft pick against us. I doubt it'll work, but they will try.
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You mean the Hendon Hooker who wasn’t even on the nfl radar when he left Virginia Tech and turned into one of the best most productive college quarterbacks in the country the last 2 seasons under Heupel. Okay, go for it!😆GBO!!!!!
 
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#142
#142
Otis1105 said:
The hashmarks in NFL would make the spacing of the offense less effective. NFL more likely to have safety’s and star/money players that can play coverage on the slot release. Less college teams run it because right now the Briles tree has less branches. Bud Elliot was saying that Huepel didn’t run this offense until the last year or so he was at mizzou when Ellarbe or one of his current assistants introduced it to him. It’s still kind of a new offense that coaches in theory could run but not as effectively and apparently they have all been very tight lipped about the detailed ins and outs. So anyone that knows enough football can explain it but they can’t necessarily execute and replicate it. As Golesh takes it and teaches guys and then they move on the tree will expand. And then teams will adjust (their recruiting or defensive scheme) to try and beat it because of its prevalences. Or hashmarks will change, or it will truly be the first unbeatable offense.
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Thanks for the in depth post, Otis.
 
#143
#143
Otis1105 said:
The hashmarks in NFL would make the spacing of the offense less effective. NFL more likely to have safety’s and star/money players that can play coverage on the slot release. Less college teams run it because right now the Briles tree has less branches. Bud Elliot was saying that Huepel didn’t run this offense until the last year or so he was at mizzou when Ellarbe or one of his current assistants introduced it to him. It’s still kind of a new offense that coaches in theory could run but not as effectively and apparently they have all been very tight lipped about the detailed ins and outs. So anyone that knows enough football can explain it but they can’t necessarily execute and replicate it. As Golesh takes it and teaches guys and then they move on the tree will expand. And then teams will adjust (their recruiting or defensive scheme) to try and beat it because of its prevalences. Or hashmarks will change, or it will truly be the first unbeatable offense.
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Ellarbee didn’t introduce it to him. After he was fired from Oklahoma, he camped out down in Waco with Art Briles and studied. He took bits and pieces and introduced them at his first post-Sooners gig with Utah State and then Mizzou. He didn’t implement his own innovations until he was THE GUY at UCF. The tempo for sure is his baby and the spacing. The use of mobility from the quarterback is markedly different than what he required at his OC employments.
 
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#145
#145
butchna said:
Ellarbee didn’t introduce it to him. After he was fired from Oklahoma, he camped out down in Waco with Art Briles and studied. He took bits and pieces and introduced them at his first post-Sooners gig with Utah State and then Mizzou. He didn’t implement his own innovations until he was THE GUY at UCF. The tempo for sure is his baby and the spacing. The use of mobility from the quarterback is markedly different than what he required at his OC employments.
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Maybe, I thought ellarbe picked it up from some Houston ties that were there with Briles. The wide splits I’ll give you, Baylor didn’t seem to spread it as much side to side. But Briles was tempo. In 2014 they ran a play every 17 seconds in the first half. And would get a lot of plays off much quicker. I don’t think he can claim the tempo as his innovation to the offense.
 
#146
#146
Otis1105 said:
Maybe, I thought ellarbe picked it up from some Houston ties that were there with Briles. The wide splits I’ll give you, Baylor didn’t seem to spread it as much side to side. But Briles was tempo. In 2014 they ran a play every 17 seconds in the first half. And would get a lot of plays off much quicker. I don’t think he can claim the tempo as his innovation to the offense.
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Not THIS level of tempo…and not throughout the game. It’s why it’s noteworthy. The college football world has never seen it’s like.
 
#147
#147
butchna said:
Not THIS level of tempo…and not throughout the game. It’s why it’s noteworthy. The college football world has never seen it’s like.
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Okay… from an oct 13th article last year. Tennessee averaged a play every 21 seconds to thag point in the season. Through atleast 6 games in 2014 Baylor was averaging a play every 16.9 seconds in the first half and 19.8 in the second. Which would average to just a little faster than UT ran through about 6 games last year.

Film Study: A guide to Tennessee's lethal, Baylor-reincarnate offense

7:20 mark of this video. I was off it was 19.8 average tempo. 16.9 first half.

 
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#148
#148
Otis1105 said:
Okay… from an oct 13th article last year. Tennessee averaged a play every 21 seconds to thag point in the season. Through atleast 6 games in 2014 Baylor was averaging a play every 16.9 seconds in the first half and 19.8 in the second. Which would average to just a little faster than UT ran through about 6 games last year.

Film Study: A guide to Tennessee's lethal, Baylor-reincarnate offense

7:20 mark of this video. I was off it was 19.8 average tempo. 16.9 first half.

Click to expand...

So you’re basing your UT observation on ONE “October 13 article”? And you have extensive film study for your Baylor argument? Never go full half-azzed bruh! I watched both offenses in real time…Heupel’s stepped it up.
 
#149
#149
NFL people didn’t develop the spread and poor mouthed it for years. Now 75% of the league runs it & RPOs. They’ll steal much of Heupel concepts but in the meantime they can’t acknowledge they’re not the ultimate authority of football.
 
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#150
#150
butchna said:
So you’re basing your UT observation on ONE “October 13 article”? And you have extensive film study for your Baylor argument? Never go full half-azzed bruh! I watched both offenses in real time…Heupel’s stepped it up.
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So.. no stats, proof or anything? Just saw it in real time and your savant level memory for 9 year old offenses that ran tempo is not to be bothered by any objective data. Provide some kind of stat that proves your point. I posed that the tempo isn’t new. Found sources from about the halfway point for both teams was shocked to find that with a decent data set, not the full set to your point, the baylor offense actually ran faster… but you feel differently?
 
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