Don Zimmer "I've Seen It All"

#76
#76
NYYVol said:
Just pointing out your bias.

It should be obvious to you, but guess it's not.
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Your way off...it has nothing to do with being bias...my feeling towards players who use PED"s somehow got turned into Boston's WS titles.

Not what I was talking about...The Yankees titles still count, even though Roger was juicing, Andy was juicing, Giambi was juicing, A-Rod was juicing.

It still counts. A TEAM achievement.

Now Roger being considered an all-time great is up to the person and their opinion, to me he is an all-time great but he is also a cheater and therefore when I think of the best ever, his name will not come up.

You can try and make this about me or where my loyalties reside..not bias about PED's at all, like I said, I have lost a ton of respect for Ortiz, I had lost most of my respect for Manny before he got caught.

If Pedrioa was to get caught, I may just give up on baseball, that would be like Jeter getting caught for you guys, totally demoralizing.
 
#77
#77
GahLee said:
Your way off...it has nothing to do with being bias...my feeling towards players who use PED"s somehow got turned into Boston's WS titles.

Not what I was talking about...The Yankees titles still count, even though Roger was juicing, Andy was juicing, Giambi was juicing, A-Rod was juicing.

It still counts. A TEAM achievement.

Now Roger being considered an all-time great is up to the person and their opinion, to me he is an all-time great but he is also a cheater and therefore when I think of the best ever, his name will not come up.

You can try and make this about me or where my loyalties reside..not bias about PED's at all, like I said, I have lost a ton of respect for Ortiz, I had lost most of my respect for Manny before he got caught.

If Pedrioa was to get caught, I may just give up on baseball, that would be like Jeter getting caught for you guys, totally demoralizing.
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It wouldn't demoralize me a bit.

And you can say the Yankees have had more cheaters... Yada, yada, yada.

I'm telling you that the total number across baseball will never be known. That's why your all-time great and greatest ever doesn't mean jack.

And like I've said before, the biggest majority of the ones on PED's never sniffed a big league field.
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#78
#78
NYYVol said:
It wouldn't demoralize me a bit.

And you can say the Yankees have had more cheaters... Yada, yada, yada.

I'm telling you that the total number across baseball will never be known. That's why your all-time great and greatest ever doesn't mean jack.

And like I've said before, the biggest majority of the ones on PED's never sniffed a big league field.
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The Yankees have had more players caught cheating, it's a fact.

Not the point, the point you obviously aren't smart enough to understand so I'm going to stop trying to explain it to you.

Everyone knows that most of the cheating is done at the minor league level...thanks for the breaking news Hyams.
 
#79
#79
GahLee said:
The Yankees have had more players caught cheating, it's a fact.

Not the point, the point you obviously aren't smart enough to understand so I'm going to stop trying to explain it to you.

Everyone knows that most of the cheating is done at the minor league level...thanks for the breaking news Hyams.
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Then why didn't those guys make it to the show and put up astronomical numbers?

Obviously that's what should happen since it made guys like Bonds and Clemens good.

And don't make a fool of yourself trying to compare intelligences.

Your track record for moronic posts certainly will not help.
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#80
#80
GahLee said:
Your way off...it has nothing to do with being bias...my feeling towards players who use PED"s somehow got turned into Boston's WS titles.

Not what I was talking about...The Yankees titles still count, even though Roger was juicing, Andy was juicing, Giambi was juicing, A-Rod was juicing.

It still counts. A TEAM achievement.

Now Roger being considered an all-time great is up to the person and their opinion, to me he is an all-time great but he is also a cheater and therefore when I think of the best ever, his name will not come up.

You can try and make this about me or where my loyalties reside..not bias about PED's at all, like I said, I have lost a ton of respect for Ortiz, I had lost most of my respect for Manny before he got caught.

If Pedrioa was to get caught, I may just give up on baseball, that would be like Jeter getting caught for you guys, totally demoralizing.
Click to expand...

Giambi never won a title with the Yankees. Pettite was not juicing in the '90s and certainly not last season. A-Rod was not juicing last season when they won the title.

So really all you are left with is Clemens in 99 and 2000, good work though.
 
#81
#81
GahLee said:
Because it is different.

An individual using PED's the way that Bonds, McGwire, Sosa, Clemons did to further their careers and have legendary seasons/careers is completely different then a team accomplishment.

Not everyone on those teams was juicing and it is still something to behold whether or not Manny/Ortiz were juicing.

2 players on a 25 man roster being found guilty does not lessen what the Sox did in any way.

I would be stupid to dismiss it because of that, just like you, do you not count the WS titles the Yanks won with players caught cheating?

Of course you count them, just like everyone else would.

So why try and single me out as if I should be any different?
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Again Roger Clemens is the only one.
 
#83
#83
GahLee said:
The Yankees have had more players caught cheating, it's a fact.
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Do you think that has anything to do with the fact that their always loaded with superstars? Those are the names that get reported and make the headlines. I would be willing to bet that at the height of the steroid era 80% of players in the league were using them. To villify players as you are is quite naive to the big picture.
 
#84
#84
VOLinthaATL said:
Do you think that has anything to do with the fact that their always loaded with superstars? Those are the names that get reported and make the headlines. I would be willing to bet that at the height of the steroid era 80% of players in the league were using them. To villify players as you are is quite naive to the big picture.
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And also he so conveniently decides not to consider NY is the largest media market in the country.

The chances of test results leaking are far greater in NY compared to other smaller markets.
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#85
#85
NYYVol said:
And also he so conveniently decides not to consider NY is the largest media market in the country.

The chances of test results leaking are far greater in NY compared to other smaller markets.
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Or the fact that the Yanks have long been considered the team that everyone loved to hate...
 
#87
#87
VOLinthaATL said:
I would be willing to bet that at the height of the steroid era 80% of players in the league were using them.
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. . . and the other 20% were probably on amphetamines. It was just the culture in the 90s in baseball just like it was in the 70s and 80s in football.
 
#90
#90
NYYVol said:
Then why didn't those guys make it to the show and put up astronomical numbers?

Obviously that's what should happen since it made guys like Bonds and Clemens good.

And don't make a fool of yourself trying to compare intelligences.

Your track record for moronic posts certainly will not help.
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Cause they didn't have it...Clemons was a HOF player before the roids, he merely sustained his career for another 5 years using the juice.

I'll try not to make a fool out of myself on an internet board arguing about PED's.

You're well on your way to becoming this sites baseball version of Hat, that is not a compliment.
 
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#91
#91
JZVOL said:
Giambi never won a title with the Yankees. Pettite was not juicing in the '90s and certainly not last season. A-Rod was not juicing last season when they won the title.

So really all you are left with is Clemens in 99 and 2000, good work though.
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You don't know for certain that they weren't juicing, not saying they were, I'm just saying.
 
#92
#92
VOLinthaATL said:
Do you think that has anything to do with the fact that their always loaded with superstars? Those are the names that get reported and make the headlines. I would be willing to bet that at the height of the steroid era 80% of players in the league were using them. To villify players as you are is quite naive to the big picture.
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Not trying to make villains out of anyone, I really feel like what I was saying has been contorted a bit.

So for the last time I will state my original argument.

Clemons/Bonds were first ballot HOF players before the PED's.

Since they used them, I have no respect for them, I know as well as any true baseball fan knows that most of the league did or still uses some sort of PED.

I try as a fan to believe that certain players are clean, not really being naive, I just want to believe it for the love of the game.

Anyway, how this got turned into Boston's WS titles being negated because of Ortiz/Manny I don't know.
 
#93
#93
GahLee said:
Not trying to make villains out of anyone, I really feel like what I was saying has been contorted a bit.

So for the last time I will state my original argument.

Clemons/Bonds were first ballot HOF players before the PED's.

Since they used them, I have no respect for them, I know as well as any true baseball fan knows that most of the league did or still uses some sort of PED.

I try as a fan to believe that certain players are clean, not really being naive, I just want to believe it for the love of the game.

Anyway, how this got turned into Boston's WS titles being negated because of Ortiz/Manny I don't know.
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I was going to say that you can't be dumb enough to forget how this thread got to WS titles considering you were very instrumental in it.

But I remembered who was typing to, and realized you are.
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#94
#94
GahLee said:
Cause they didn't have it...Clemons was a HOF player before the roids, he merely sustained his career for another 5 years using the juice.

I'll try not to make a fool out of myself on an internet board arguing about PED's.

You're well on your way to becoming this sites baseball version of Hat, that is not a compliment.
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More ignorance. Rather than admit you're biased and clueless, you throw out comparisons to other posters.

Can't say I'm shocked.
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#95
#95
GahLee said:
Not trying to make villains out of anyone, I really feel like what I was saying has been contorted a bit.

So for the last time I will state my original argument.

Clemons/Bonds were first ballot HOF players before the PED's.

Since they used them, I have no respect for them, I know as well as any true baseball fan knows that most of the league did or still uses some sort of PED.

I try as a fan to believe that certain players are clean, not really being naive, I just want to believe it for the love of the game.

Anyway, how this got turned into Boston's WS titles being negated because of Ortiz/Manny I don't know.
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I bet you're the kind of fan who was furious with Jim Bouton for exposing the players of the '60s as a bunch of greenie eating drunks.
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#96
#96
It got started because of the other Yankee fan in this mess, that is how. Not sure where he was coming form, maybe you could go back and read it.

Your insults are a reflection on you, not me.

Makes you look immature and rather pathetic.
 
#97
#97
NYYVol said:
More ignorance. Rather than admit you're biased and clueless, you throw out comparisons to other posters.

Can't say I'm shocked.
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Rather than say anything worthy, you throw out more insults.

Where is the bias in the comment that you quoted?
 
#98
#98
hatvol96 said:
I bet you're the kind of fan who was furious with Jim Bouton for exposing the players of the '60s as a bunch of greenie eating drunks.
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But that doesn't count because Bouton was obviously just cuckoo.

No need to pull his head out of the sand. PED's started when Jose Canseco said they did.
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#99
#99
hatvol96 said:
I bet you're the kind of fan who was furious with Jim Bouton for exposing the players of the '60s as a bunch of greenie eating drunks.
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I have respect for the game and there is something to be said for doing it the right way...not just sports but in life.
 
#100
#100
GahLee said:
It got started because of the other Yankee fan in this mess, that is how. Not sure where he was coming form, maybe you could go back and read it.

Your insults are a reflection on you, not me.

Makes you look immature and rather pathetic.
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Doesn't matter if you're a Yankee fan, Sox fan or a Seattle Pilots fan. Either way you're little view of PED's is asinine.
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