Don't ask, Don't tell repealed

#177
#177
fl0at said:
You don't sound like you've been in long. Have you tried failure to adapt?

Inside 180 or so, you can claim such and be on your way.

Later, when you are in a bar with your buddy, talking about that long future you had in the military and what a badass you could have been, if not for them gays... just remember, even the gay guys stuck it out and didn't run away...
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When did I ever say that I wanted a way out of the military?
 
#185
#185
BearCat204 said:
There is a big problem with that though, article 1 section 8 of the Constitution says otherwise.
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Make the rules or change the rules?

The previous rules have been working just fine
for quite a long time.

The change isn't made to enhance the military, it
is made to appease a very influential special
interest group and this won't be the end of it,
they will keep on whining about something or
another until the end of time.

DinkinFlicka said:
How do you define 'openly straight?'

Your problem (well, one of your problems) is that you put them on a separate plane from straight folk.
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No actually I asked because the stated goal of the
repeal of DADT is so that people who are 'openly
gay' can serve, hence my question, what do you
mean by 'openly gay?'

Also you scoffed when I mentioned the nazi party
was made up of homosexuals, more on that:

The PinkSwastika 4th Edition - Final

It was no coincidence that homosexuals were among those who founded the Nazi Party. In fact, the party grew out of a number of groups in Germany which were centers of homosexual activity and activism.
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The extended-arm “Sieg Heil” salute, for example, was a ritual of the Wandervoegel (“Wandering Birds” or “Rovers”), a male youth society which became the German equivalent of the Boy Scouts. The Wandervoegel was started in the late 1800s by a group of homosexual teenagers. Its first adult leader, Karl Fischer, called himself “der Fuehrer” (“the Leader”) (Koch:25f). Hans Blueher, a homosexual Nazi philosopher and important early member of the Wandervoegel, incited a sensation in 1912 with publication of The German Wandervoegel Movement as an Erotic Phenomenon, which told how the movement had become one in which young boys could be introduced into the homosexual lifestyle (Rector:39f). The Wandervoegel and other youth organizations were later merged into the Hitler Youth (which itself became known among the populace as the “Homo Youth” because of rampant homosexuality. - Rector:52).
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In 1907, Jorg Lanz Von Liebenfels, a former Cistercian monk whom the church excommunicated because of his homosexual activities (Sklar:19), flew the swastika flag above his castle in Austria (Goodrick-Clarke:109).
After his expulsion from the church Lanz founded the Ordo Novi Templi (“Order of the New Temple”) which merged occultism with violent anti-Semitism. A 1958 study of Lanz, Der Mann der Hitler die Ideen gab (“The Man Who Gave Hitler His Ideas”), by Austrian psychologist Wilhelm Daim, called Lanz the true “father” of National Socialism.
--------------------

The Nazi dream of an Aryan super-race was adopted from an occult group called the Thule Society, founded in 1917 by followers of Lanz and List. The occult doctrine of the Thule Society held that the survivors of an ancient and highly developed lost civilization could endow Thule initiates with esoteric powers and wisdom. The initiates would use these powers to create a new race of Aryan supermen who would eliminate all “inferior” races. Hitler dedicated his book, Mein Kampf, to Dietrich Eckart, one of the Thule Society inner circle and a former leading figure in the German Worker’s Party. (Schwarzwaller:67). The various occult groups mentioned above were outgrowths of the Theosophical Society, whose founder, Helena Petrovna Blavatsky, is thought by some to have been a lesbian (Webb:94), and whose “bishop” was a notorious pederast named Charles Leadbeater.

The SA Brownshirts or Stuermabteilung (“Storm Troopers”) were largely the creation of another homosexual, Gerhard Rossbach (Waite, 1969:209). Rossbach formed the Rossbachbund (“Rossbach Brotherhood”), a homosexual unit of the Freikorps (“Free Corps”). The Freikorps were independent inactive military reserve units which became home to the hundreds of thousands of unemployed World War I veterans in Germany. Rossbach also formed a youth organization under the Rossbachbund, calling it the Schilljugend (“Schill Youth”) (ibid.:210). Rossbach’s staff assistant, Lieutenant Edmund Heines, a pederast and murderer, was put in charge of the Schilljugend. The Rossbachbund later changed its name to Storm Troopers (in honor of Wotan, the ancient German god of storms. - Graber:33). Rossbach seduced Hitler’s mentor, Ernst Roehm, into homosexuality. It was under Roehm’s leadership that the Brownshirts became notorious for brutality.
--------------------------

This was not the last time homosexual leadership of the Nazis would attack other ideologically dissimilar homosexuals. Later in this discussion we will examine the so-called “pink triangle” homosexuals who were interned in concentration camps. The pink triangle, part of a scheme of variously-colored triangles used by the Nazis to identify specific classes of prisoners, was applied to those convicted under Paragraph 175 of the German Penal Code. Homosexuals were one of these classes, but according to Johansson,

Many of those convicted under Paragraph 175 were not homosexual: some were opponents of the regime such as Catholic priests or leaders of youth groups who were prosecuted on the basis of perjured testimony, while others were street hustlers from Berlin or Hamburg who had been caught up in a police dragnet (Johansson in Dynes:997).
---------------------------

This, then, is the explanation for the paradox of the Nazi persecution of homosexuals. It is found in the history of two irreconcilable philosophies linked by a common sexual dysfunction. The roots of this conflict extend back into the eighteenth century and span a 70-year period which saw the rise of homosexual militancy in the movement that gave Nazism to the world.

One final item before we move to the next section. It should by this time be apparent to the reader that lesbians did not have a major part to play in Nazism, but they were not completely absent from the Party. Herzer writes that “Claudia Schoppmann has recently shown that prior to 1933, there were Nazi adherents among the leading lesbians in the homosexual emancipation movement. As an example she names the case of Elsbeth Killmer, a leading editor of the most important lesbian periodical of that time, Die Freundin, who was active in the Nazi organization NS-Frauenschaft early on” (Herzer:221f).
---------------------------------

The “grandfather” of the world “gay rights” movement was a homosexual German lawyer named Karl Heinrich Ulrichs (1825-1895). At the age of 14, Ulrichs was seduced by his riding instructor, a homosexual man about 30 years old (Kennedy in Pascal:15). Observers familiar with the apparently high correlation between childhood sexual molestation and adult homosexuality might conclude that this youthful experience caused Ulrichs to become a homosexual. Ulrichs himself, however, arrived at a hereditary rather than an environmental explanation for his condition. In the 1860s Ulrichs began advancing a theory that defined homosexuals as a third sex. He proposed that male homosexuality could be attributed to a psycho-spiritual mix-up in which a man’s body came to be inhabited by a woman’s soul (and vice-versa for females). He called members of this third sex “Urnings” (male) and “Dailings” (female). Since homosexuality was an inborn condition, he reasoned, it should not be criminalized.
------------------------------

This distinction between mature and immature boys was lost on many who followed the rise of the homosexual movement in Germany. For example, Friedrich Engels, in a letter to Karl Marx about a book Ulrichs had written, said, “The pederasts start counting their numbers and discover they are a powerful group in our state. The only thing missing is an organization, but it seems to exist already, though it is hidden” (Plant:38).
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Barely a quarter of a century after his death in 1895, homosexuality would become openly widespread in the Germany of the Weimar Republic era. Cities such as Munich and Berlin would become international Meccas for the practitioners of all forms of sexual perversion. As William Manchester observed in The Arms of Krupp “Wilhelmine Kulture's emphasis on masculinity had produced a generation of perverts. Abroad, sodomy was delicately known as ‘the German vice’” (Manchester, 1968:232).
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It is possible that the term “gay” is derived from this mythical Greek figure, Ganymede, cup-bearer of the gods, who exemplified the concept of man/boy sex to the masculine homosexuals.
--------------------------------

As we will see, the revival of Hellenic paganism became a fundamental aspect of the Nazi identity. In Nationalism and Sexuality, historian George L. Mosse notes its significance: “The Greek youth, an important national symbol in the past, reigned supreme during the Third Reich. Hitler’s own taste was influenced by the neo-classical revival...[which often included] pictures of nude youth...not unlike those of boys bathing” (Mosse:172). But the Nazis adopted more than just symbolism from the “boy-lovers” who reasserted the Greek ideal; their ideas and philosophies are indelibly stamped on the Nazi regime.

The influence of the Greek homosexuals on Nazi culture is perhaps explained best by contemporary German psychoanalyst, Wilhelm Reich in his 1933 classic, The Mass Psychology of Fascism:
------------------------------


A key to understanding the cause of the German social collapse, which culminated in the atrocities of the Third Reich, is found in the conflict of Hellenic and Hebrew (Judeo-Christian) value systems. This war of philosophies, as old as Western civilization itself, pits the homoeroticism of the Greeks against the marriage-and-family-centered heterosexuality of the Jews.
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Now you can revert to your stupid, immature attempts at insult and character assassination. :whistling:
 
#187
#187
Ernst Rohm was the gay leader of the sturmabterlung(sp) better known as the SA or the 'brown shirts'. He was also affiliated with the Hilter youth. Rohm was an influential person in regards to Hilter; however, other Nazi leaders hated him and tried to convince Hitler that he was not a worthy party member. Eventually Rohm's influence wained in favor of the more fanatical and 'more pure' Aryian group the Shutzstaffel (SS). In the early Nazi movement, the SA was the hammer. Himmler later took over this influence with his SS. Nazi leaders convinced Hitler to have Rohm arrested and executed several of his associates. Rohm was given the option of suicide but refused. He too was executed. His biggest crime against the Reich was being gay. Jealousy from the SS was a part of it. IMO, it is not a stretch to say that gays were a targeted group especially after Himmler's rise to power.
I have stated my support of the repeal. I just wanted to add a bit of historical context to the issue at hand. Carry on.....

Ernst Rohm The Gay Nazi
Posted via VolNation Mobile
 
#188
#188
VOLatile said:
Immaturity: when you can't accept that it's okay to be gay.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
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It's a choice one makes.

Here are the unanswered questions; why couldn't the homosexuals be happy with everyone keeping their business to themselves and what do they mean by the term 'openly homosexual?'


JayVols said:
Ernst Rohm was the gay leader of the sturmabterlung(sp) better known as the SA or the 'brown shirts'. He was also affiliated with the Hilter youth. Rohm was an influential person in regards to Hilter; however, other Nazi leaders hated him and tried to convince Hitler that he was not a worthy party member. Eventually Rohm's influence wained in favor of the more fanatical and 'more pure' Aryian group the Shutzstaffel (SS). In the early Nazi movement, the SA was the hammer. Himmler later took over this influence with his SS. Nazi leaders convinced Hitler to have Rohm arrested and executed several of his associates. Rohm was given the option of suicide but refused. He too was executed. His biggest crime against the Reich was being gay. Jealousy from the SS was a part of it. IMO, it is not a stretch to say that gays were a targeted group especially after Himmler's rise to power.
I have stated my support of the repeal. I just wanted to add a bit of historical context to the issue at hand. Carry on.....

Ernst Rohm The Gay Nazi
Posted via VolNation Mobile
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The PinkSwastika 4th Edition - Final

As we will see, almost all of the new leadership of the party were sexual deviants. But this fact raises a question that is foundational to our understanding of the Nazis. Who chose these men as Nazi leaders? Roehm, with whose lifestyle we are now quite familiar, was to some historians the true power behind Hitler’s throne. As noted above it was primarily Roehm who organized, funded and armed the terrorist military arm of the party, choosing only homosexuals as officers. And it is true that the party met frequently in the Bratwurstgloeckl (Fest, 1975:135f), a homosexual bar where Roehm kept a reserved table.

Yet, despite Roehm’s importance to the party, Adolf Hitler himself was the central figure of Nazism and increasingly it was he who determined the fate of every member of the party. Despite suggestions to the contrary, Hitler was not anti-homosexual. In fact, like Roehm, Hitler preferred homosexual companions and co-workers. In addition to Roehm and Hess, two of his closest friends, Hitler apparently chose homosexuals and other sexual deviants to fill key positions nearest to himself. Heiden reports that in fact Hitler intentionally “surrounded himself with men of... [homosexual] tendencies” (Heiden, 1935:417).
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Reportedly, Hitler Youth leader, Baldur von Schirach was bisexual; Hitler’s private attorney, Reich Legal Director, Minister of Justice, butcher Governor-General of Poland, and public gay-hater Hans Frank was said to be a homosexual; Hitler’s adjutant Wilhelm Bruckner was said to be bisexual;...Walther Funk, Reich Minister of Economics [and Hitler’s personal financial advisor] has frequently been called a “notorious” homosexual...or as a jealous predecessor in Funk’s post, Hjalmar Schacht, contemptuously claimed, Funk was a “harmless homosexual and alcoholic;”...[Hitler’s second in command] Hermann Goering liked to dress up in drag and wear campy make-up; and so on and so forth (Rector:57).

Igra, who confidently asserts that the above men were homosexuals, cites still other Hitler aides and close friends who were known homosexuals. He states that Hitler’s chauffeur and one-time personal secretary, Emile Maurice, for example, was homosexual, as well as the pornographer, Julius Streicher, whom Hitler appointed Gauleiter of Nuremberg.
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Among the homosexuals closest to Hitler, Heiden lists “Heines, Reiner, Ernst, Von Helldorf, Count Spreti [and] Count du Moulin-Eckhardt, jr” (Heiden, 1935:417).

The evidence for homosexual leanings in another leading Nazi, Joseph Goebbels, is rather thin, but adds further insight to the inner workings of the group. Goebbels, Reich propaganda leader and close aide to the Fuehrer, is reported to have had a party in 1936 that degenerated into a violent homosexual orgy. The party featured “torch-bearing page boys in tight fitting white breeches, white satin blouses with lace cuffs and powdered rococo wigs” (Grunberger:70). Grunberger writes that Nazi roughnecks “were so affected by the rococo setting that they hurled themselves upon the bewigged page boys and pulled them into the bushes. Tables collapsed, torches were dimmed, and in the ensuing fracas a number of Party old fighters and their comely victims had to be rescued from drowning” (ibid:70).
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Ralf George Reuth, in Goebbels (Harcourt Brace, New York, 1993), reports that Goebbels was accused by Roehm of pederasty. After Roehm’s homosexuality was exposed in the German press, Goebbels [a longtime rival] tried to get him dismissed from the party. “Roehm took revenge by spreading in return all sorts of rumors about Goebbels’ relationship with Magda Quandt. He went so far as to suggest that Goebbels was interested less in Magda than in her young son. So along with Roehm’s homosexual excesses, people were talking about the “cloven foot’s ‘impossible (and immoral) relationship’” (Reuth:138f). (Goebbels’ club foot apparently gave rise to the epithet.). We also know that homosexual SA figure Wolf von Helldorf escaped assassination in the Roehm purge due only to intervention by Goebbels (Reuth:137).
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Another close Hitler associate was Albert Speer. An October 30, 1995 book review in Newsweek, titled “Inside a Third Reich Insider” featured the book Albert Speer: His Battle With Truth by Gitta Sereny. The article speaks of a “homo-erotic (not sexual) relationship” between Speer and Hitler that was discussed in a previous book by a German psychoanalyst, Alexander Mitscherlich. Sereny writes that “Speer himself acknowledged that Mitscherlich ‘came closest to the truth.’” Although Sereny claims this relationship was non-sexual, he reports that Speer’s secretary said Speer gave himself to Hitler “body and soul.” Sereny also observes that Speer never told Hitler he was married because of his “romantic” feelings for Hitler. (Sereny:109).
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Langer writes in the 1940s that “[e]ven today Hitler derives sexual pleasure from looking at men’s bodies and associating with homosexuals” (Langer:179). He adds, quoting Strasser, that Hitler’s personal body-guard was “almost always 100% homosexuals” (ibid.:179).

It should be remembered that Hitler’s greatest hero was Frederick the Great, a well known homosexual (Garde:44). Clearly, Adolf Hitler was not anti-homosexual, at least not in his personal lifestyle.
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Still, during the months he was with Rudolph Hess in Landsberg, their relationship must have become very close. When Hitler left the prison he fretted about his friend who languished there, and spoke of him tenderly, using Austrian diminutives: “Ach mein Rudy, mein Hesserl, isn’t it appalling to think that he’s still there.” One of Hitler’s valets, Schneider, made no explicit statement about the relationship, but he did find it strange that whenever Hitler got a present he liked or drew an architectural sketch that particularly pleased him, he would run to Hess — who was known in homosexual circles as “Fraulein Anna” — as a little boy would run to his mother to show his prize to her.....
In Germany’s National Vice, Samuel Igra wrote that as a young man Hitler “had been a male prostitute in Vienna and Munich” (Igra:67). Lending credence to this is the fact that for quite a long time Hitler “chose to live in a Vienna flophouse known to be inhabited by many homosexuals” (Langer:192). That “flophouse” was the Meldemannstrasse Hostel. Hitler’s long-time “gay” friend Ernst Hanfstaengl identified this residence as “a place where elderly men went in search of young men for homosexual pleasures” (Machtan:56). “It was an open secret at the beginning of the 20th century,” adds Machtan, “that municipal hostels for homeless males were hubs of homosexual activity...[where many young men] kept themselves afloat by engaging in prostitution. Hitler spent over three years in this environment” (Machtan:51).
This would help to explain Hitler’s close relationships to his purportedly homosexual patrons Dietrich Eckart and Karl Haushofer. Rector writes that, as a young man, Hitler was often called “Der Schoen Adolf” (“the handsome Adolf”) and that later his looks “were also to some extent helpful in gaining big-money support from Ernst Roehm’s circle of wealthy gay friends” (Rector:52).
But Hitler was apparently not involved with homosexuality solely to survive financially. Even in his pre-Nazi years, most of Hitler’s reputed homosexual encounters were consensual meetings in which no money changed hands. Machtan suggests that each of Hitler’s longer-term relationships in his youth -- with Reinhold Hanisch, August Kubizek, Rudolf Hausler and Ernst Hanfstaengl -- were homosexual “love affairs.”

There are numerous other incidents (“one night stands”) in which Hitler was purported to have been the solicitor and not the solicited one. Eugen Dollman, former member of Himmler’s staff and one-time Hitler interpreter, cited testimonies from the files of the Munich vice squad in which a series of young men identified Hitler as the man who had “picked them up” on the streets for homosexual relations (Machtan:135ff). Dollman himself was also homosexual (ibid.).

Additional allegations addressed homosexual conduct by Hitler during the first World War. The so-called “Mend Protocol,” a document prepared by German military intelligence under Admiral Canaris, contains the testimony of Hans Mend. Considered highly credible, Mend had this to say about Hitler:

Meanwhile, we had gotten to know Hitler better. We noticed that he never looked at a woman. We suspected him of homosexuality right away, because he was known to be abnormal in any case. He was extremely eccentric and displayed womanish characteristics which tended in that direction....In 1915 we were billeted in the Le Febre brewery at Fournes. We slept in the hay. Hitler was bedded down at night with “Schmidl,” his male whore. We heard a rustling in the hay. Then someone switched on his electric flashlight and growled, “Take a look at those two nancy boys.” I myself took no further interest in the matter (Ibid:68)
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Hitler and “Schmidl” (Ernst Schmidt) were, in Schmidt’s words, “always together” during their war years. They remained very close friends and were occasional housemates for over thirty years (ibid.:89ff).
A year or so after the incident described by Mend, Hitler supposedly “posed nude for a homosexual officer named Lammers -- a Berlin artist in civilian life -- and subsequently went to bed with him” (ibid.:100). This may be the incident to which Rauschning referred when he later told U.S. Investigators “that Lance Corporal Hitler and an officer had been charged with engaging in sexual relations” (ibid.).
The homosexual connection certainly helps to explain how Hitler became involved with the nationalists generally, and Ernst Roehm specifically, after the war. It is likely that Roehm’s homosexual inclinations were the reason that Colonel Ritter von Epp, the Freikorps commander, chose Roehm as his adjutant. “There are many indications that the relationship between Roehm and Epp was homoerotic,” writes Machtan,“and Hitler once let slip in later years that Roehm’s homosexuality first became known around 1920” (ibid.:106f). Roehm, in turn, brought Hitler into the homoerotic Freikorps brotherhood.
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The PinkSwastika 4th Edition - Final

Heinrich Himmler is an extremely important figure in Nazi history. He joined the Nazis in the early years of the party and “participated in the Munich Beer-Hall Putsch of November 1923 as a standard-bearer at the side of Ernst Roehm” (Wistrich:138). After holding a number of mid-level positions in the party he was appointed “head of Hitler’s personal bodyguard, the black-shirted Schulzstaffel (SS), at that time a small body of 200 men” (ibid.:138). Over the next dozen years Himmler’s “astonishing capacity for work and irrepressible power-lust showed itself in his accumulation of official posts” (ibid.:138), eventually winning him the most powerful position in the Third Reich under Hitler himself.

The role of Himmler is also critically important to the assertions of homosexual revisionists. “Heinrich Himmler, Reichsfuehrer SS and head of the Gestapo,” writes Steakley, “richly deserves a reputation as the most fanatically anti-homosexual member of the Nazi leadership” (Steakley:111). Indeed, if one were to accept Himmler’s public pronouncements against homosexuality at face value, he would certainly deserve this distinction.
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However, as we have demonstrated, homosexuality was not the reason for the Roehm Purge. And if we look at other evidence we find that Himmler’s practice regarding homosexuals was far different than his rhetoric would imply. Grau notes in Hidden Holocaust? that

In these speculations about a supposed “final solution” to the problem of homosexuality, there is clearly a failure to differentiate what was said in Nazi programmes from what was actually carried out. If Himmler’s eradication rhetoric is thought to reflect the fate of individual homosexuals, then obviously the Nazi’s policy will be seen as a drive to exterminate them all in the literal sense of the term. But things appear in a different light once we distinguish between anti-homosexual propaganda for public consumption and the reality on the ground....what he had in his sights was the homosexual type. (Grau:6, emphasis ours).
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What the Nazis considered the “homosexual type” was the effeminate homosexual male who showed no interest in sexual relations with women. Let us recall the Friedlander distinction between “Butches” and “Fems.” Remember that Friedlander, together with the masculine homosexuals of the Community of the Elite, referred to effeminate homosexuals as “degenerates.” Clearly, in his speech, Himmler rhetorically lumped the masculine Roehm with all homosexuals, but it is probable that the distinction would have been lost on this particular audience anyway.

Himmler’s opposition to homosexuality was directly proportionate to the attitudes of homosexuals about procreation. For him, the individual’s highest duty to the state was the improvement of the race through proper breeding. Himmler was obsessed with creating a race of “supermen.” But in his view, some of the most perfect specimens of Aryan manhood were being lost to this effort due to homosexuality. Himmler felt this “loss” more keenly in light of the fact that Germany had lost two million men in World War I. He also believed there were two million homosexuals in the population. “This meant,” write Burleigh and Wippermann, “that Germany’s ‘sexual balance sheet’ had gone into deficit because ‘four million men capable of sex’ had either died or had ‘renounced their duty to procreate’ on account of their sexual proclivities” (Burleigh and Wipperman:192).

Himmler’s solution to this problem was, logically enough, not the extermination of the delinquent males. Instead he placed great hope in the use of medical “treatments” to reclaim homosexuals for the race. One experiment involved implanting artificial glands in homosexual subjects to introduce additional male hormones to the body. Other efforts paired homosexual prisoners with female prostitutes (ibid.:195f). While the idea of forced medical experiments is abhorrent, the fact that Himmler invested time and resources in such projects shows that he had a very different view of homosexuals than of other prisoners, even of those effeminate homosexuals who were held in such contempt by the Nazi “Butches.” Himmler was determined to rehabilitate rather than dispose of them.
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Himmler may himself have been a homosexual. Filmmaker Walter Frenz, who worked closely with the Nazi elite (including a stint as Hitler’s private filmmaker), is reported to have traveled to the Eastern front with Himmler “whose pederastic proclivities he captured on film” (Washington City Paper, April 4, 1995). We also know that Gauleiter Helmut Bruckner of Silesia, upon being denounced as a homosexual by a Himmler underling in the month after the Roehm Purge, sent a veiled blackmail threat via Hess and Goering to expose Himmler’s alleged homosexual tendencies (Machtan:226).

Himmler began his Nazi career as an aide to Ernst Roehm, a fact which clearly refutes the idea that he was a priggish anti-homosexual zealot. On the contrary, Himmler’s service to Roehm was not performed grudgingly. Himmler voluntarily wrote his own oath of loyalty to Roehm and repeated it ceremoniously each year in Roehm’s presence. Gallo records a portion of a letter written to Roehm by Himmler: “As a soldier and a friend, I wish you all you could desire in obedience and loyalty. It has been and always will be my greatest pride to be counted among your most faithful followers” (Gallo:57). For many years Himmler had been pleased to serve the most brazen and outspoken homosexual in the Nazi Party.
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[Even after]...the murder of Roehm and the leading SA personalities...in a certain sense the sodomite romanticism continued to assert itself. The virtually manic search for beautiful male figures perpetrated by Heinrich Himmler, for example, could not just be explained by the delusions of the breeder; it was also compensation for a repressed physical inferiority complex, which especially in people with homosexual tendencies gives rise to neuroses” (Glaser:132).

Himmler, like Hitler, was closely associated with homosexuals throughout his adult life. His path to Nazi leadership, however, was not, like that of so many others, through the German “gay rights” movement. Instead it was through the occult movement, and his Nazi career was defined by his passion for the occult. We have seen how Himmler was profoundly influenced by Guido von List and Jorg Lanz von Liebenfels, the homosexual gurus of nationalistic and anti-Semitic occultism. It was List’s dream of a hierarchical male supremacist social order which formed the blueprint for the SS. And it was from List that Himmler appropriated the “SS” symbol. From Lanz, Himmler adopted other occult themes.
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Want to PO a conservative? Lie to him.
Want to PO a liberal? Tell him the truth.
 
#190
#190
if you read any of david horowitz's stuff when he was a communist in the 50's. He specifically wrote about how to bring down America's military. it was to allow homos to serve openly. there are other well known communists that have echoed the same thing.

America it was good to know you. RIP
 
#192
#192
joevol320 said:
nothing worse than historical facts to get in the way.
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What did it say, Joe?

I did a quick search for some of the esteemed folks who wrote the rave reviews of gs' link, I wasn't surprised with what groups they fall into.

I will say this, though gs is pretty far out there, he at least can carry himself with some wit and intelligent presentation. You, on the other hand, are a mindless sheep. Get back under the porch before the neighbors see you.
 
#193
#193
img-thing.jpg


69172440.jpg
 
#195
#195
gsvol said:
why couldn't the homosexuals be happy with everyone keeping their business to themselves and what do they mean by the term 'openly homosexual?'
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Sure, as long as heterosexual soldiers do the same. Such as, not getting married(something gays cannot do), and not discussing significant others(since it would reveal that they are heterosexual)
 
#196
#196
joevol320 said:
if you read any of david horowitz's stuff when he was a communist in the 50's. He specifically wrote about how to bring down America's military. it was to allow homos to serve openly. there are other well known communists that have echoed the same thing.

America it was good to know you. RIP
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I don't think Gays will openly come out in certain units...
Specifically Combat Arm MOS's....
 
#197
#197
joevol320 said:
if you read any of david horowitz's stuff when he was a communist in the 50's. He specifically wrote about how to bring down America's military. it was to allow homos to serve openly. there are other well known communists that have echoed the same thing.

America it was good to know you. RIP
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How about you GTFO since things are so bad?
 
#200
#200
fl0at said:
Intellectual consistency.
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Would it not be intellectually consistent in your
world for the president to present his bona fides
as being qualified for the office he holds just like
everyone else has to do when they want to
interface with our government and a proof of
birth record is required??





fl0at said:
Then why did you ask what a congrit was? Why, if you knew the answer? Why, gs? Intellectual consistency.
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I suppose it was a lame attempt to introduce some
humor about your typo into this otherwise ultimately
boring exchange.

Intellectual consistency??

You are the one who interjected that congress
would be meddling if they held a hearing but they
are the ones who are responsible for seeing the
the UCMJ is followed to the letter and in this case
the judge ruled that Lakin didn't have the right to
discovery which was an error and also denied him
the right to produce expert witnesses who are
qualified to express their interpretation of certain
passages in the UCMJ.


fl0at said:
Really? Cause I have a link to one...
Terry Lakin Letter to POTUS

Hey, gs... INTELLECTUAL CONSISTENCY.
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Are you saying he didn't file two requests in the
proper manner that he testified in court of having
done???

If that were true they would have him flying from
the flagpole by his balls.

INTELLECTUAL CONSISTENCY??? Getcha some!!!

If Obama were half as true to the oath he swore
(apparently twice, one on a Bible with the words
wrong and once with the words right but without
the Bible) as Lakin is, the Barry would produce his
bona fides to hold the office that makes him CIC!



fl0at said:
No, he missed a movement. That isn't inviting a court martial, that is being punished for a crime.

Oh, as far as clueless... see the above... about the letter you say didn't happen.

Oh, hey gs... intellectual consistency?
Click to expand...

He did so because he (as stated in court) believed
this to be an unlawful order, and he yet may still be
proven to be right about that.

He has more intellectual consistency than your
whole family has for several generations, particularly
YOU.

You read the letter that I have never said didn't
happen, what can you surmise from the letter??

Do you have a link to any reply??

NO, Barry doesn't have the gonads for a reply!



fl0at said:
Where did you get anything about home grown threats? Where, gs?

My point was this: The military views that what Lakin did was wrong, WRONG and more WRONG. I agree. You said my views are more in tone with WW2 Germany and Russia. I said, no, they are more in tone with TODAY'S military. Our military.

Want to know where the evidence is? His verdict.

Nice fallacy, though. (Under "Fs" in your dictionary, again).
Click to expand...

Obama is a threat, he just isn't 'home grown.' :)

I can think of some good Fs you can look up in your
Funk and Wagnals.

I have no idea about what you are talking about here
except you say Lakin is wrong, I'm saying he may very
well be right.





fl0at said:
I will spell it out for you, again. Again gs... again.



I would like a link that proves that I am "flat out dead wrong" on the believe that the live birth certificate doesn't satisfy the legal requirement.

That is what I want a link to gs. GS... that's what I want the link to.

Where's that link that GS? Oh where or where has that little link gone?
Click to expand...

On the belief that the live birth certificate doesn't satisfiy the legal requirement??

When that fake COLB is ever produced in ANY court,
then we can procede, so far it has only been presented
on the internet and proven to be a fake!

You show me a link to where Obama has ever produced
anything in court that asserts he is qualified under the
constitution to be president.

Clue one, don't google it, he hasn't done so.

Clue two, why has he spent $2+ million to do so
on technaical grounds?




fl0at said:
Lakin's agenda is like yours; the spread of idiocy through hearsay and circumstance. His agenda, to be specific, was to question a president he does not agree with; but guess what? You get the president the nation votes for, not the one you want.

So suck it up and Ranger on Dr. Lakin.

As far as you, gs, yea... people like you are making a joke of the Constitution. People like you, who "flight for the Constitution" only when it serves your agenda.
Click to expand...

Actually I'm trying to stamp our idiocy, in your case
that is turning into a full time job.

I beg to differ.

Obama and sheeple like you are the ones making a joke
of the constitution.

Your talk about flight for the constitution is reminiscent
of tallywhackervol saying I want to segregrate airline
flights for homosexuals.

Some of you guys make quantum leaps of logic that
should someday be in the bullfrog hall of fame!


fl0at said:
For or against Patriot Act, gs? How about searches of them dang "Moslum's" belongings at airports?

People like you, gs. People like you.
Click to expand...

Against, unneccessary.

Here is a picture of a TSA agent wearing a burka.

tsa-burka.jpg


What's that tell you mister intellectual consistency??







JTrainDavis said:
What did it say, Joe?

I did a quick search for some of the esteemed folks who wrote the rave reviews of gs' link, I wasn't surprised with what groups they fall into.

I will say this, though gs is pretty far out there, he at least can carry himself with some wit and intelligent presentation. You, on the other hand, are a mindless sheep. Get back under the porch before the neighbors see you.
Click to expand...

Far out??? Thanks for the compliment.

And what do you mean SOME wit, who is funnier??
(or more intelligent for that matter) :loco:

I notice you tout your talents at pugilism in your sig,
here is a funny story for you.

During the mid-eighties, with a house full of youngins
I somehow managed to sneak off to go see a UT game,
live and in person in Neland stadium, and experience
everyone should have at least once, the more the
better, it's addictive.

So I rolled into K-town and got with a couple of old
friends of mine and we headed over for the game,
they told me don't worry about tickets, one of them
strong armed a scalper for three tickets for free and
we were in like Flynn.

We were well juiced by then.

So it was an exciting game with everybody standing
a lot and one of the guys would stand up on the back
of the seats and do a swan dive down through the
crowd and if anyone said anything his brother was
invite them to a fight.

All my efforts to get them to behave better was
met with even more outrageous behavoir and so
I was just trying to watch the game because that
was why I was there, their motives seem to be a
bit different.

Finally I looked around and there was about a twenty
foot circle around us where there was nothing but
empty seats.

So then I got a tapped on my shoulder and I turned
around slowly, keeping my jaw tucked under my shoulder
so as to prevent someone delivering a knockout punch
to said appendage and it was a nice Vol fan who asked
me; "are these guys for real?"

I replied; "the guy on my left was the 178 lb all Navy
boxing champ and would have been all service champ
and would have been all service champ except he ran
into a Marine who knew how to defend himself, he
takes your best shot then puts your lights out and
the guy on my right is the only man to be kicked out
of the Merchant Marines for fighting too much."

(for those who don't know the tradition in the
merchant marines is that if two guys can't get
along, the whole crew goes down into the hold
and make a ring and the beligerants then go bare
knuckle until one is declared the winner.)

I added; "If you want to start something, just let
me know so I can get out of the way, I really just
want to watch the game."

He replied; "No, I'm not going to start something,
I just wanted to know if they were for real."

PS: At least Joe isn't the PC sheeple many of the
others on this board are.

PPS: Letterman had a funny skit on the DADT
controversy tonight.

gaygov.jpg




rmsmith said:
Sure, as long as heterosexual soldiers do the same. Such as, not getting married(something gays cannot do), and not discussing significant others(since it would reveal that they are heterosexual)
Click to expand...

:cray:

Uh, I don't know if it has escaped your scrutiny
but repeal of DADT doesn't mean you can marry
your dignificant other.

Homos don't want equal rights they want
preferential rights and we will see how this
all plays out.
 
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