Doyel says Kiffin not a jerk

[tvolsfan]

the opposite

Elaborate? Surely you don't think the right thing to do was just not tell anyone and let the players go to class, right?

 

[OrangeBalls]

That is another red flag to me.
Worley is Dooley's recruit, the guy he recruited to be the helm when Bray graduates. Lets hope Peterman looks a lot better this fall then Worley.

Worley was having to play against 4 Top 10 teams with 3 of the defenses being the toughest in the nation. I'll give Worley a pass. You can't expect a true freshman to come in and light it up against those teams.

 

[King Webbsticles]

No, I didn't bring the freshmen and sophomore caveat in to the equation about a team not progressing. JayVols did. I responded in kind asking if he didn't think Maggitt or Johnson got better as the season went along after he made the post below.

Really? The fact is, JV was referencing the entire team regressing/progressing. You are the one that started throwing the FR/SO thing into it.

I didn't say that at all. I said it takes no talent to hustle. I was trying to say that I wasn't necessarily looking for us to set the world on fire with our sheer natural ability. I do expect the lesser talented players to improve and become more able to do their job through hard work, utilizing proper technique, making smarter decisions, and aggressiveness. We didn't improve at an adequate level as the season progressed. In fact, there's some pretty damning evidence that we regressed in several areas.

So again, I wasn't referencing high talent level. In fact I was referring to the fact that we weren't blessed with awe inspiring talent, and the improvment or rather lack thereof based on the talent level we were at last year.

And a lot of that has to do with them having to play freshmen and sophomores all over the field and having to play a bunch of guys that wouldn't otherwise even see the field. How many of those players on that roster would've even seen the field in the 90's with the talent we had? Very few. Sometimes it doesn't matter how hard you try. If you don't have any talent, it doesn't matter going up against elite athletes in the SEC because they'll make you look foolish.

I'm not following. Are you saying that freshmen and sophomores can't improve throughout the season? Improvement from where one starts has nothing to do with talent or your competition.

No, I'm saying that freshmen and sophomores are more inclined to be up and down and less consistent than a more experienced team with juniors and seniors.

Do you think Maggitt or AJ Johnson didn't get better as the season went along? They were both freshmen.

AJ and Curt did improve. The team as a whole didn't. They learned how to lay down and get kicked while they were down.

Players of any age will get by with as much as they are allowed to get by with.

Some individuals did improve. Unfortunately, it's a team game. The team regressed, imo.

 

[Vol2424]

I'm not saying they weren't acting in their best interest. I'm saying that calling the players wasn't some attempt to sabotage Tennessee.

So telling our recruits not to go class the next morning was not sabotage? Might want to read the definition of that word.

Sabotage - An act or process tending to hamper or hurt.

Tennessee lost players because of this. It did hurt our team and our recruiting class. I know you believe it wasn't on purpose , but this is Ed Orgeron you are talking about. Why did they hesitate to acknowledge what they did if it was for the good of a recruit. When questioned , Lane used the excuse of being too busy and he wasn't sure if that was what happend. Then Ed finally said he called the players , but wouldn't even get into the fact that he told them not to attend class. It was obviously shady or he would have been upfront and honest about his actions.

If you think what Ed did was aboveboard you would be mistaken. His reputation precedes him. Read that espn article again and see how the players took his call. Bottom line it was unethical and he knew damn well it was.

 

[Spartacavolus]

Elaborate? Surely you don't think the right thing to do was just not tell anyone and let the players go to class, right?

team meeting or captain meeting with the AD present would be a good move. Maybe even address it with someone with the University, a parent or someone, before you start dialing up 18 yr olds whose heads are spinning. You haven't told the team you are leaving, but the asst coach is already texting kids about transferring?

Trying to rationalize what they did as being in the "best interest" of the kids is a joke. Trying to rationalize a single text of phone call to a player or recruit at that time is a joke.

 

[tvolsfan]

The recruits had to be told. I'm not saying Orgeron didn't want the kids to come to USC. The fact is the recruits, without question, needed to be told not to go to class if a coaching change affected their college decision.

 

[Vol2424]

The recruits had to be told. I'm not saying Orgeron didn't want the kids to come to USC. The fact is the recruits, without question, needed to be told not to go to class if a coaching change affected their college decision.

I'm sure Ed left out the part where they would have to sit out a year. Our AD had to clear that up for them.

 

[tvolsfan]

What? Please clarify that.

 

[Vol2424]

What? Please clarify that.

They were already enrolled at Tennessee. If they followed Captain Caveman to SC , they had to sit out a year. That is the rule. Look at Thompkins who went to Cincinnati. He had to sit out because he didn't stick with Tennessee.

 

[tvolsfan]

They were already enrolled at Tennessee. If they followed Captain Caveman to SC , they had to sit out a year. That is the rule. Look at Thompkins who went to Cincinnati. He had to sit out because he didn't stick with Tennessee.

Okay that makes sense.

I thought they only needed to sit out if they went to class?

 

[Vol2424]

Okay that makes sense.

I thought they only needed to sit out if they went to class?

Nope. That is why most of them didn't leave.

 

[Spartacavolus]

Nope. That is why most of them didn't leave.

Such an easy situation to walk into as a new head coach. Convince fulmers recruits that feel screwed its all good. Convince kiffins recruits that feel screwed its all good. And convince the new young crew that the team chemistry problem of having players from 3 different coaches on the team isn't going to be an issue.

 

[OrangeBalls]

Really? The fact is, JV was referencing the entire team regressing/progressing. You are the one that started throwing the FR/SO thing into it.

And then he asked if freshmen can't improve in which I asked did he think that Johnson, Maggitt or even Randolph didn't improve.

The freshmen/sophomore thing was thrown into it because that was essentially our team last year. It was made up of them and you can't expect a team that is that young to be consistent throughout the year. Hell, even Fulmer's Sr laden NFL teams would lay an egg at least once a year.

 

[Vol2424]

Such an easy situation to walk into as a new head coach. Convince fulmers recruits that feel screwed its all good. Convince kiffins recruits that feel screwed its all good. And convince the new young crew that the team chemistry problem of having players from 3 different coaches on the team isn't going to be an issue.

No matter what anyone thinks of Dooley , people can't deny that it was a really tough situation. Where one walks into his dream job , the other walked into a nightmare.

 

[WA_Vol]

No matter what anyone thinks of Dooley , people can't deny that it was a really tough situation. Where one walks into his dream job , the other walked into a nightmare.

Dooley's situation at La Tech wasn't particularly rosey either. LA Tech previous coach got fired for going 16-20 in his last 3 seasons, Dooley was 17-20 when UT hired him.

UT threw him a lifeline plus tripled his salary. Another losing or mediocre season at LA Tech he was most likely out.

 

[JayVols]

Apologies. I thought you or someone had said that there was no improvement with freshmen throughout the year.

No. It's clear that AJ and Curt got better. They are going to be good ones. I think they'll be even better this year with Herman out there.

Individual growth is good, but team growth is what counts, imo. There'll be some individuals on the field this year that will make us better simply by their presence. The individual I think that's had the most impact on the team in the last 15-20 years is Al Wilson. The guy was a 3 star FB recruit that became an AA LB and the glue that held those teams together. Al had talent, but his biggest asset was his burning passion for the game and his hatred of losing. There were more talented players on his teams from a pure talent standpoint, but no one could match his passion. He's a prime example of what can happen when you mix some talent with a refusal to accecpt anything other than excellence and a searing desire to do whatever it takes to get there. He will forever be the model Vol for me.

 

[Vol2424]

LA Tech previous coach got fired for going 16-20 in his last 3 seasons, Dooley was 17-20 when UT hired him.

UT threw him a lifeline plus tripled his salary. Another losing or mediocre season at LA Tech he was most likely out.

Yes , the same stuff I have read a thousand times here. And you are probably right. The guy got lucky. More money at a better university. It still doesn't take away the fact that is was a tough job for anyone to walk into and expect success. The pressure here is nothing compared to Tech. And no , I do not blindly support him. Going into this season he has my support , but it's time to prove something.

 

[JayVols]

He did and then changed it to a team regression.

I never meant to imply that there was no individual improvement. If I gave that impression, I apologize.

 

[JayVols]

this is the post. Doesn't say anything about team. You question the lack of freshmen improvement

I was working off of his statement about freshmen and sophomores not my words. I was saying that freshmen and sophomores can improve. I said nothing about whether any individual did or didn't.

 

[JayVols]

JayVols actually was talking about team progression. OrangeBalls brought the freshman and sophomore caveat into the equation.

Yes.

 

[JayVols]

No, I said that was one of the reasons the team was stunted, but players still improved. I responded in kind asking if he didn't think Maggitt or Johnson got better as the season went along after he made the post below.

Perhaps I should have bolded the specific parts I was referring to. You're looking for something that isn't there.

 

[JayVols]

Worley was having to play against 4 Top 10 teams with 3 of the defenses being the toughest in the nation. I'll give Worley a pass. You can't expect a true freshman to come in and light it up against those teams.

I tend to feel this way, too.

 

[Spartacavolus]

Dooley's situation at La Tech wasn't particularly rosey either. LA Tech previous coach got fired for going 16-20 in his last 3 seasons, Dooley was 17-20 when UT hired him.

UT threw him a lifeline plus tripled his salary. Another losing or mediocre season at LA Tech he was most likely out.

Yeah, they won a bowl game in '08 for the first time in decades. I'm sure they were about to get rid of him.
And Sonny Dykes won a conference championship last year with upperclassmen that DD recruited, btw.

 

[JayVols]

Really? The fact is, JV was referencing the entire team regressing/progressing. You are the one that started throwing the FR/SO thing into it.

Exactly KW. Appreciate it.

As I said, I didn't bring the freshman/sophomore argument up. I also never said that no one improved. In fact, I agreed that some had improved. I hope that there was just misunderstanding rather than an attempt to twist my words. If the former is the case, that's not cool at all.

 

[WA_Vol]

Yes , the same stuff I have read a thousand times here. And you are probably right. The guy got lucky. More money at a better university. It still doesn't take away the fact that is was a tough job for anyone to walk into and expect success. The pressure here is nothing compared to Tech. And no , I do not blindly support him. Going into this season he has my support , but it's time to prove something.

There is no question he inherited a tough situation.
That's the reason a half a dozen coaches turned it down.