Edward Snowden: American Hero

#476
#476
Gramps said:
IMO, this is not about trusting the government. There are means in place for Snowden to have reported this information in the USA. He did not have to run to China, then Russia. I don't have a problem with Snowden reporting this info. I have a problem with how he did it. IMO he is a traitor.
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So just the fact that he went to Russia makes him a traitor? I'm not understanding what exactly makes him a traitor if you have no problem with the info becoming public.
 
#478
#478
n_huffhines said:
So just the fact that he went to Russia makes him a traitor? I'm not understanding what exactly makes him a traitor if you have no problem with the info becoming public.
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I have no problem with him leaking the spying on US Citizens.
I do have a problem with him not going through the proper channels to do.

I do have a problem with him leaking information to other countries. That is what makes him a traitor , IMO.

Does he have other info to release to foreign governments ?


He is not too concerned about his liberties considering the nations he ran to.
 
#479
#479
Gramps said:
I have no problem with him leaking the spying on US Citizens.
I do have a problem with him not going through the proper channels to do.
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What are the proper channels? Didn't he just give the info to the Times?

I do have a problem with him leaking information to other countries. That is what makes him a traitor , IMO.

Does he have other info to release to foreign governments ?
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What info did he leak to other nations that wasn't made public to everyone?

He is not too concerned about his liberties considering the nations he ran to.
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Uhhh...he went to Russia because they are offering him more liberty than anybody else would. All the western powers would turn him over to us. He's not siding with Russia and making a statement that they are more free than us. He gave up his chance to live in a free country to help us ensure that it stays free.
 
#480
#480
Gramps said:
I have no problem with him leaking the spying on US Citizens.
I do have a problem with him not going through the proper channels to do.

I do have a problem with him leaking information to other countries. That is what makes him a traitor , IMO.

Does he have other info to release to foreign governments ?


He is not too concerned about his liberties considering the nations he ran to.
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If he had went through proper channels, you never would have heard of him.

Been in a unmarked shallow grave some where.
 
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#481
#481
n_huffhines said:
Uhhh...he went to Russia because they are offering him more liberty than anybody else would. All the western powers would turn him over to us. He's not siding with Russia and making a statement that they are more free than us. He gave up his chance to live in a free country to help us ensure that it stays free.
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Exactly what liberty is Russia giving him?

What info has he or will he release to Russia ?

He is up the creek without a paddle if Russia is the one nation on Earth that grants him more liberty than anyone else will.
 
#482
#482
n_huffhines said:
Uhhh...he went to Russia because they are offering him more liberty than anybody else would. All the western powers would turn him over to us. He's not siding with Russia and making a statement that they are more free than us. He gave up his chance to live in a free country to help us ensure that it stays free.
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if you believe that Snowden will be "free" under the thumb of Putin then you believe Elian Gonzalez grew up just like any other kid
 
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#483
#483
Gramps said:
Exactly what liberty is Russia giving him?

What info has he or will he release to Russia ?

He is up the creek without a paddle if Russia is the one nation on Earth that grants him more liberty than anyone else will.
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What are you asking? Isn't it clear that western powers would surrender him to us? Russia isn't as free as America, but civilian status in Russia is better than prisoner status in the US.

I am skeptical that he would release information that could harm Americans to the Russians. I think he was doing what he thinks is his patriotic duty to warn Americans of government spying. He gave up everything. Why would he just turn around and sell us out?
 
#486
#486
n_huffhines said:
What are you asking? Isn't it clear that western powers would surrender him to us? Russia isn't as free as America, but civilian status in Russia is better than prisoner status in the US.

I am skeptical that he would release information that could harm Americans to the Russians. I think he was doing what he thinks is his patriotic duty to warn Americans of government spying. He gave up everything. Why would he just turn around and sell us out?
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*No he would not release any information that would harm America. I guess It was his patrotic duty when he revealed that espionage activities conducted by US and UK*intelligence agencies*targeted not only foreign countries but also U.S. citizens as well as U.S. allies from*NATO and the*European Union.

You think releasing that info did not harm the USA with members of NATO and the EU.?
 
#487
#487
volinbham said:
Putin has officially made Obama his b**ch. From the missile shield to Iran to Syria to Snowden and numerous issues in between Putin has won and Obama has lost.

Time for another "reset" of relations?
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I think he finds a lot of joy in making BHO look like a beech
 
#488
#488
Gramps said:
*No he would not release any information that would harm America. I guess It was his patrotic duty when he revealed that espionage activities conducted by US and UK*intelligence agencies*targeted not only foreign countries but also U.S. citizens as well as U.S. allies from*NATO and the*European Union.

You think releasing that info did not harm the USA with members of NATO and the EU.?
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I think Snowden deserves to have a projectile implanted in his mind
 
#491
#491
Gramps said:
*No he would not release any information that would harm America. I guess It was his patrotic duty when he revealed that espionage activities conducted by US and UK*intelligence agencies*targeted not only foreign countries but also U.S. citizens as well as U.S. allies from*NATO and the*European Union.

You think releasing that info did not harm the USA with members of NATO and the EU.?
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I wish we had nothing to do with them, other than trading partners. The leak isn't the problem. Our foreign policy is.

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#492
#492
Exclusive: U.S. directs agents to cover up program used to investigate Americans

A secretive U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration unit is funneling information from intelligence intercepts, wiretaps, informants and a massive database of telephone records to authorities across the nation to help them launch criminal investigations of Americans.

Although these cases rarely involve national security issues, documents reviewed by Reuters show that law enforcement agents have been directed to conceal how such investigations truly begin - not only from defense lawyers but also sometimes from prosecutors and judges.

The undated documents show that federal agents are trained to "recreate" the investigative trail to effectively cover up where the information originated, a practice that some experts say violates a defendant's Constitutional right to a fair trial. If defendants don't know how an investigation began, they cannot know to ask to review potential sources of exculpatory evidence - information that could reveal entrapment, mistakes or biased witnesses.
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One current federal prosecutor learned how agents were using SOD tips after a drug agent misled him, the prosecutor told Reuters. In a Florida drug case he was handling, the prosecutor said, a DEA agent told him the investigation of a U.S. citizen began with a tip from an informant. When the prosecutor pressed for more information, he said, a DEA supervisor intervened and revealed that the tip had actually come through the SOD and from an NSA intercept
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#493
#493
one possible downside to his leaks

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/04/us/other-agencies-clamor-for-data-nsa-compiles.html?hp&_r=0

National Security Agency’s dominant role as the nation’s spy warehouse has spurred frequent tensions and turf fights with other federal intelligence agencies that want to use its surveillance tools for their own investigations, officials say.

Agencies working to curb drug trafficking, cyberattacks, money laundering, counterfeiting and even copyright infringement complain that their attempts to exploit the security agency’s vast resources have often been turned down because their own investigations are not considered a high enough priority, current and former government officials say.
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Smaller intelligence units within the Drug Enforcement Administration, the Secret Service, the Pentagon and the Department of Homeland Security have sometimes been given access to the security agency’s surveillance tools for particular cases, intelligence officials say.
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#495
#495
Interesting article by someone who did a similar act in the late 70s/early 80s. If you haven't read about or watched the movie "The Falcon and the Snowman" you should.

We should heed his warning:

Transparency, public disclosure, and open debate will be stifled as America becomes the world's first cyber-superpower. And politicians of both parties will go on fearing to resist lest they be blamed should a cyber-attack happen.
Our surveillance state is only just beginning to flex its technological muscles. We have nothing to lose but our civil liberties.
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Ex-spy 'Falcon': U.S. likes Snowden in Russia - CNN.com
 
#497
#497
it's amazing how everyone has just blown this out of proportion. By the President's own words:
"We don’t have a domestic spying program. What we do have is some mechanisms that can track a phone number or an email address that is connected to a terroritst attack...That information is useful."
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#499
#499
“I have been forced to make a difficult decision: to become complicit in crimes against the American people or walk away from nearly ten years of hard work by shutting down Lavabit. After significant soul searching, I have decided to suspend operations,” owner and operator Ladar Levison of Dallas, Texas wrote in the statement. “I wish that I could legally share with you the events that led to my decision. I cannot.”

“I feel you deserve to know what’s going on--the First Amendment is supposed to guarantee me the freedom to speak out in situations like this. Unfortunately, Congress has passed laws that say otherwise,” wrote Levison. “As things currently stand, I cannot share my experiences over the last six weeks, even though I have twice made the appropriate requests.”
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wow. The thugs in DC prevail
 
#500
#500
utvolpj said:
wow. The thugs in DC prevail
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The USA Government cannot release all the information of operations involved in National Security. Technology has drastically changed information coming out of DC and the programs the government can implement.

We know the NSA spying program started during the Bush 2 Administration. Obama has carried on and maybe expanded the program. Have these two presidents pushed the envelope farther than other presidents have, taking into consideration the technology available at the time they were in office.

I would think if we knew what our government has been doing for many many years in the name of national security we would be shocked. .
 
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