Edward Snowden: American Hero

#626
#626
GoBigOrangeUT said:
While I understand where you and Bur come from on this, I think you are so blinded by your undying devotion to personal freedom that you cannot see that this man, no matter if his intentions were good, and no matter if he exposed domestic spying, without a doubt committed an act of treason.
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If what he did was treason, maybe we need some more people like him. He ratted our Government out for the lying rats they are to both her people and her allies. If the President really cared about being transparent with the people, Snowden wouldn't have to seek asylum in Russia. He would have already gotten a presidential pardon for being a Patriot.
 
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#629
#629
GoBigOrangeUT said:
While I understand where you and Bur come from on this, I think you are so blinded by your undying devotion to personal freedom that you cannot see that this man, no matter if his intentions were good, and no matter if he exposed domestic spying, without a doubt committed an act of treason.
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Wow. No offense but this has to be one of the dumbest comments. Obama has committed treason and nothing has been done about it. Treason is extremely difficult to prove. It takes at least 2 eye witnesses to an overt act or an admission of guilt in open court.

If Julius Rosenberg wasn't convicted of treason then Snowden hasn't committed treason.
 
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#630
#630
BigOrangeTrain said:
Wow. No offense but this has to be one of the dumbest comments. Obama has committed treason and nothing has been done about it. Treason is extremely difficult to prove. It takes at least 2 eye witnesses to an overt act or an admission of guilt in open court.

If Julius Rosenberg wasn't convicted of treason then Snowden hasn't committed treason.
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Wouldn't be convicted of or hasn't committed?
 
#632
#632
GoBigOrangeUT said:
While I understand where you and Bur come from on this, I think you are so blinded by your undying devotion to personal freedom that you cannot see that this man, no matter if his intentions were good, and no matter if he exposed domestic spying, without a doubt committed an act of treason.
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Being "illegal" doesn't always make something wrong.

Why is it you are alright with the US government violating the 4th amendment rights of all citizens?

This wasn't an act of treason, this nation belongs to the people and if our government has been violating the 4th amendment rights of the entire nation, then we have a right to know about it.

I consider our nations constitution to be a bit more important than some non disclosure agreement.
 
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#633
#633
GoBigOrangeUT said:
While I understand where you and Bur come from on this, I think you are so blinded by your undying devotion to personal freedom that you cannot see that this man, no matter if his intentions were good, and no matter if he exposed domestic spying, without a doubt committed an act of treason.
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I'm ok with calling it treason and prosecuting Snowden but the trials need to run in order of when the crimes were committed. Once all those responsible for the violating the constitution are given their day in court then it will be Snowden's turn. Deal?
 
#635
#635
SamRebel35 said:
CIA employee

Anybody still think Snowden should have used "proper internal procedures" to blow the whistle on these thugs?
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I have said and still say Snowden should have used proper channels. The guy in the article you linked was forced to "retire" from the CIA with a nice pension and has landed a consulting job making 6 figures while Snowden ran to China and Russia. Snowden is a traitor, Scudder is not.
 
#636
#636
Gramps said:
I have said and still say Snowden should have used proper channels. The guy in the article you linked was forced to "retire" from the CIA with a nice pension and has landed a consulting job making 6 figures while Snowden ran to China and Russia. Snowden is a traitor, Scudder is not.
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Don't forget his house was raided and he was treated like a terrorist. And the things he was divulging were things that were required to be divulged! He was treated this way for simply doing his job. He went through proper channels not to whistle blow, but just to do what the definition of his job required, and this is how he was treated. By extrapolation, we can assume the reaction of the agency to an actual Whistleblower would be quite severe.
 
#637
#637
Ahh that's what you do when you live in DC and work for the govt. You work 4 days a week and when you "retire", you get a sick pension and then you become a consultant. EVERYBODY in DC is working the system
 
#638
#638
Anyone who thinks Snowden, whether going through proper channels or not, wouldn't be assassinated in the USA is naive at best. I'm kinda surprised he hasn't been assassinated yet anyway.
 
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#639
#639
SamRebel35 said:
Don't forget his house was raided and he was treated like a terrorist. And the things he was divulging were things that were required to be divulged! He was treated this way for simply doing his job. He went through proper channels not to whistle blow, but just to do what the definition of his job required, and this is how he was treated. By extrapolation, we can assume the reaction of the agency to an actual Whistleblower would be quite severe.
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He also had classified information that hadn't been released yet on his home computer.

This is an apples and oranges case here.
 
#640
#640
Gramps said:
I have said and still say Snowden should have used proper channels. The guy in the article you linked was forced to "retire" from the CIA with a nice pension and has landed a consulting job making 6 figures while Snowden ran to China and Russia. Snowden is a traitor, Scudder is not.
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Claiming he ran to China and Russia is a bit inaccurate. He had his passport revoked enroute to South America
 
#644
#644
Grand Vol said:
He also had classified information that hadn't been released yet on his home computer.

This is an apples and oranges case here.
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Yes apples and oranges, but I still think it is safe to assume by their harsh and swift action against a guy that was trying to do his job, that they would have looked even more unfavorably and acted more harsh against a whistle-blower even if he sought out proper channels.
 
#645
#645
Vol8188 said:
Claiming he ran to China and Russia is a bit inaccurate. He had his passport revoked enroute to South America
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He first went to China. He then decided to go to Cuba and chose a flight that had a transfer in Russia where the US did revolk his passport.
Do you not find it odd that a man releasing government information chose those countries to run/travel through?
 
#646
#646
Gramps said:
He first went to China. He then decided to go to Cuba and chose a flight that had a transfer in Russia where the US did revolk his passport.
Do you not find it odd that a man releasing government information chose those countries to run/travel through?
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You make it sound as if US allies would have accepted him with open arms. He went where he could.
 
#647
#647
SamRebel35 said:
Yes apples and oranges, but I still think it is safe to assume by their harsh and swift action against a guy that was trying to do his job, that they would have looked even more unfavorably and acted more harsh against a whistle-blower even if he sought out proper channels.
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Being that Snowden is out of reach for the most part and was in the news, it's a big assumption. Hard to take action against someone when they are in China or Russia and if he had an "accident" everyone would know where it came from.

I'm split on the Snowden thing as I've stated before. I think it was good that he brought a lot of things to light, specifically the domestic spying, but he started grandstanding after a while and lost the ability to be a martyr for the cause. And being that he pops up with "I've got more information!" from time to time is an attention grabbing tactic more than a whistle blower.
 
#648
#648
Grand Vol said:
Being that Snowden is out of reach for the most part and was in the news, it's a big assumption. Hard to take action against someone when they are in China or Russia and if he had an "accident" everyone would know where it came from.

I'm split on the Snowden thing as I've stated before. I think it was good that he brought a lot of things to light, specifically the domestic spying, but he started grandstanding after a while and lost the ability to be a martyr for the cause. And being that he pops up with "I've got more information!" from time to time is an attention grabbing tactic more than a whistle blower.
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I'm with you on this one, though I tend to be more in the "he's a narcissist" camp than anything else.
 
#649
#649
I'm always impressed that nearly every single person on VN who claims to support the 2nd amendment "to protect ourselves from the government", can at the same time refer to this man who literally protected millions from the government, as a traitor.

How can those two feelings coexist? Would you guys like him more if he had shot a couple of people?
 
#650
#650
Vol8188 said:
I'm always impressed that nearly every single person on VN who claims to support the 2nd amendment "to protect ourselves from the government", can at the same time refer to this man who literally protected millions from the government, as a traitor.

How can those two feelings coexist? Would you guys like him more if he had shot a couple of people?
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I don't recall saying the 2nd was specifically meant for the government...but I'll bite.

If Snowden had come out and said "I have information about domestic spying by the Federal Government and here it is" in one fail swoop, I'd be okay with that. But when he continues to pop up in the news to include things like this:

http://www.volnation.com/forum/politics/218963-troubling-more-wikileaks.html

It's pure attention grabbing tactics. There comes a point where he crossed the line between concerned whistle blower and (God I hate to say I agree with LG) a narcissist. If he had just dropped the info at once and let the chips fall, I'd be good with it. But he continues to pop up from time to time and one has to ask the question of "why?"
 
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