Edward Snowden: American Hero

#652
#652
Grand Vol said:
I don't recall saying the 2nd was specifically meant for the government...but I'll bite.

If Snowden had come out and said "I have information about domestic spying by the Federal Government and here it is" in one fail swoop, I'd be okay with that. But when he continues to pop up in the news to include things like this:

http://www.volnation.com/forum/politics/218963-troubling-more-wikileaks.html

It's pure attention grabbing tactics. There comes a point where he crossed the line between concerned whistle blower and (God I hate to say I agree with LG) a narcissist. If he had just dropped the info at once and let the chips fall, I'd be good with it. But he continues to pop up from time to time and one has to ask the question of "why?"
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I think how he released/releases the information is the least important part of this. I don't care if he plans to do a 100 part miniseries on A&E. The only thing I care about is that he did the right thing.

Can one question and motives and character based on some of his decisions? Absolutely.

Does that change the fact that he ultimately did the right thing, and protected millions? Not in my opinion.
 
#653
#653
Vol8188 said:
I think how he released/releases the information is the least important part of this. I don't care if he plans to do a 100 part miniseries on A&E. The only thing I care about is that he did the right thing.

Can one question and motives and character based on some of his decisions? Absolutely.

Does that change the fact that he ultimately did the right thing, and protected millions? Not in my opinion.
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I don't disagree, but the ultimate motives have to be taken into consideration here especially when lives might be on the line like in the link I posted. It stops being the right thing when you put lives at risk by putting up information about intelligence operations in foreign land. Sure, everyone knows we spy on them and they spy on us, but that leaked information can be used to track down sources and more importantly, intelligence operatives on the ground in said foreign countries. And in less than desirable locations, that means Americans get killed and those assets that take a long time to cultivate are cut off.

He did the right thing initially, but in my opinion is doing it now more for the attention grabbing bit rather than doing it for the right thing. And is potentially putting lives at risk.
 
#654
#654
Grand Vol said:
He also had classified information that hadn't been released yet on his home computer.

This is an apples and oranges case here.
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If it had been illegal then he would have been charged. Do you think CIA guys only deal with classified info at the office? They released that info to discredit him and he most likely can't say a thing about it if it is classified without going to jail.
 
#655
#655
Grand Vol said:
I don't recall saying the 2nd was specifically meant for the government...but I'll bite.

If Snowden had come out and said "I have information about domestic spying by the Federal Government and here it is" in one fail swoop, I'd be okay with that. But when he continues to pop up in the news to include things like this:

http://www.volnation.com/forum/politics/218963-troubling-more-wikileaks.html

It's pure attention grabbing tactics. There comes a point where he crossed the line between concerned whistle blower and (God I hate to say I agree with LG) a narcissist. If he had just dropped the info at once and let the chips fall, I'd be good with it. But he continues to pop up from time to time and one has to ask the question of "why?"
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Yeah because being in prison for the rest of your life is fun an all. I don't have any negative feelings towards this guy. None of us are smart enough to do his job and none of you can say what he should've done. We now know what they are doing now and the guy isn't dead or in jail. I'd say that's the best situation if you are him.
 
#656
#656
#VFL__ said:
Yeah because being in prison for the rest of your life is fun an all. I don't have any negative feelings towards this guy. None of us are smart enough to do his job and none of you can say what he should've done. We now know what they are doing now and the guy isn't dead or in jail. I'd say that's the best situation if you are him.
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Speak for yourself, but I'm smart enough to do his job.

Again, had he not attracted the circus like atmosphere about the whole thing, this would be a moot point. But making public statements about which country he wants to go to next isn't exactly being low key. That's called being an attention whore.
 
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#657
#657
There are two types of pure Snowden defenders -- uber liberals who want everyone to think the government is out to get them, and political opportunists.
 
#658
#658
davethevol said:
If it had been illegal then he would have been charged. Do you think CIA guys only deal with classified info at the office? They released that info to discredit him and he most likely can't say a thing about it if it is classified without going to jail.
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In accordance with the law and concerning the release of classified information, yes. Unless they happen to have a secure computer in a properly prepared storage area with electronic controls, yes, the office happens to be where this kind of stuff stays.
 
#659
#659
Grand Vol said:
In accordance with the law and concerning the release of classified information, yes. Unless they happen to have a secure computer in a properly prepared storage area with electronic controls, yes, the office happens to be where this kind of stuff stays.
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Again, if what he did was illegal then he would have been charged.
 
#660
#660
Vol8188 said:
I'm always impressed that nearly every single person on VN who claims to support the 2nd amendment "to protect ourselves from the government", can at the same time refer to this man who literally protected millions from the government, as a traitor.

How can those two feelings coexist? Would you guys like him more if he had shot a couple of people?
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Care to explain why your heart bleeds for kids when they are hungry, yet you are all for killing them, Komrade?
 
#661
#661
davethevol said:
Again, if what he did was illegal then he would have been charged.
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As absurd as it's going to sound, there very well could have been a case of common sense breaking out.

There still is a huge gap in what Snowden did especially concerning ongoing operations and having a file about Doctor Zhivago on your home PC.
 
#662
#662
#VFL__ said:
Yeah because being in prison for the rest of your life is fun an all. I don't have any negative feelings towards this guy. None of us are smart enough to do his job and none of you can say what he should've done. We now know what they are doing now and the guy isn't dead or in jail. I'd say that's the best situation if you are him.
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Best situation for him?

He is in jail, so to speak. If he continues to live in the freedom rich Russia, he will never see his family again. If a loved ones dies, he can not come home to attend the funeral. He has chosen to walk off, betray his countries secretes to foreign nations. If he comes home he will be prosecuted as he should be. He is a fugitive and a traitor on the run.
 
#663
#663
Gramps said:
Best situation for him?

He is in jail, so to speak. If he continues to live in the freedom rich Russia, he will never see his family again. If a loved ones dies, he can not come home to attend the funeral. He has chosen to walk off, betray his countries secretes to foreign nations. If he comes home he will be prosecuted as he should be. He is a fugitive and a traitor on the run.
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I would support his prosecution just as long as the leadership of the NSA, and all agencies that spy on Americans, are tried alongside him. :good!:
 
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#665
#665
Gramps said:
Best situation for him?

He is in jail, so to speak. If he continues to live in the freedom rich Russia, he will never see his family again. If a loved ones dies, he can not come home to attend the funeral. He has chosen to walk off, betray his countries secretes to foreign nations. If he comes home he will be prosecuted as he should be. He is a fugitive and a traitor on the run.
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I suppose there is a fine line between traitor and patriot. Go back and look at the founding fathers, what they risked and what many of them lost because of their beliefs.

I have heard the question asked "Is it time for a second revolution?" and while I don't agree that it is, I would say that we are quickly heading in that direction. Unfortunately I think a second revolution would look more like a civil war than a war between the government and the people.
 
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#666
#666
Gramps said:
Best situation for him?

He is in jail, so to speak. If he continues to live in the freedom rich Russia, he will never see his family again. If a loved ones dies, he can not come home to attend the funeral. He has chosen to walk off, betray his countries secretes to foreign nations. If he comes home he will be prosecuted as he should be. He is a fugitive and a traitor on the run.
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I guess what you see depends on where you sit.

One could argue that he is a patriot for casting light on the crimes the US government is committing against it's own citizens.

I'm not saying what he did was right, but I'm also finding it tough to blast the guy for his actions.
 
#667
#667
Grand Vol said:
(God I hate to say I agree with LG)"
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Ring. Ring. Ring.

Satan: "Hell-o? Haha, just a bit of humor. This is Satan. How can I help you?"

mcdad: "Uh, yeah. Good joke by the way. We've had some recent developments up here. What's the temp in Hell, right now?"

Satan: "Should be 666 degrees. It seems the thermostat has been at that temperature for an eternity."

mcdad: "That's funny."

Satan: "Thanks."

mcdad: "Do you mind checking the temp right now?"

Satan: "Do you mind holding while I check?"

mcdad: "Happy to."

[I'm on the highway to hell, highway to hell. Im on the hig-]

Satan: "You still there?"

mcdad: "Yep."

Satan: "Reading 31 degress right now. Damnest thing I ever saw."

mcdad: "Is that another joke?

Satan: "It's whatever you want it to be, pal."

mcdad: "Okay. Thanks for the info."

Satan: My pleasure. See ya soon, mcdad."

mcdad: Yep. Bye....... wait......, WHAT!??????

[Dial tone]
 
#669
#669
Gramps said:
Best situation for him?

He is in jail, so to speak. If he continues to live in the freedom rich Russia, he will never see his family again. If a loved ones dies, he can not come home to attend the funeral. He has chosen to walk off, betray his countries secretes to foreign nations. If he comes home he will be prosecuted as he should be. He is a fugitive and a traitor on the run.
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I don't necessarily trust Snowden, but I'm all for betraying our country's secrets. It's hard enough to hold our government accountable even when we are aware of the **** they do.
 
#671
#671
Vol8188 said:
I'm always impressed that nearly every single person on VN who claims to support the 2nd amendment "to protect ourselves from the government", can at the same time refer to this man who literally protected millions from the government, as a traitor.

How can those two feelings coexist? Would you guys like him more if he had shot a couple of people?
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Easy, when you are charged with information that the Government deems secret or classified, you don't have the liberty of deciding who to release that information to. If he wasn't charged with that information in an official manner, I'd be 100% ok with him releasing it.
 
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#672
#672
BearCat204 said:
Easy, when you are charged with information that the Government deems secret or classified, you don't have the liberty of deciding who to release that information to. If he wasn't charged with that information in an official manner, I'd be 100% ok with him releasing it.
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I feel the same way...Good Post Bear
 
#673
#673
I don't think anybody's posted this yet, but Washington Post reported last week that 9 out of 10 people spied on online are not the intended targets.

10% success rate....90% innocents....let's let that sink in a minute.
 
#674
#674
n_huffhines said:
I don't think anybody's posted this yet, but Washington Post reported last week that 9 out of 10 people spied on online are not the intended targets.

10% success rate....90% innocents....let's let that sink in a minute.
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Washington Compost, real credible source there.
 
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