Edward Snowden: American Hero

#727
#727
We would have no idea about parallel reconstruction, without Snowden. This is about as corrupt as it gets. The American people are much better off knowing about this. Thanks to Snowden.

Among the more nefarious procedures the feds have engaged in is something called "parallel reconstruction." This procedure seeks to hide the true and original source of information about a criminal defendant when it was obtained unlawfully.
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This Is How the Feds Illegally Obtain Evidence of a Crime and Lie About It in Court - Reason.com
 
#728
#728
Here's the scariest part of all of this:

So many idiots demand Snowden be brought to justice...

How many people have demanded the officials who authorized this constitutional violation be charged with treason?
 
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#729
#729
CNCVol88 said:
Like those avenues would have done anything. The govt is aware of what they are doing. What he did needed to be done.
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It's not up to him to decide that. So, I should be able to release any TSS/Secret/classified info I have if I disagree with the way the Government is handling it? Or if I think its unfair to the citizens? Of course not, there's a reason that we safeguard our information and only certain people are cleared to be privy to that info.
 
#730
#730
Vol8188 said:
Here's the scariest part of all of this:

So many idiots demand Snowden be brought to justice...

How many people have demanded the officials who authorized this constitutional violation be charged with treason?
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I have clearly stated that the officials who authorized this should face justice as well. Doesnt absolve Snowden though.
 
#731
#731
BearCat204 said:
It's not up to him to decide that. So, I should be able to release any TSS/Secret/classified info I have if I disagree with the way the Government is handling it? Or if I think its unfair to the citizens? Of course not, there's a reason that we safeguard our information and only certain people are cleared to be privy to that info.
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So it's okay for the govt to be spying on its citizens without a warrant and with no probable cause?
 
#732
#732
BearCat204 said:
It's not up to him to decide that. So, I should be able to release any TSS/Secret/classified info I have if I disagree with the way the Government is handling it? Or if I think its unfair to the citizens? Of course not, there's a reason that we safeguard our information and only certain people are cleared to be privy to that info.
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I'm not saying you should be allowed to do it. I'm saying you should do it because it's the right thing to do. The hell with what the government deems acceptable. Be a man and stand for something.
 
#733
#733
BearCat204 said:
I have clearly stated that the officials who authorized this should face justice as well. Doesnt absolve Snowden though.
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Vol8188 said:
1. US government violates its constitutional agreement with the people.

2. The US government then asks everyone to keep quite about it and has them sign a memorandum saying they won't speak about it.

Replace "US government" with anyone and replace constitution with "law". Then tell me what court this would hold up in?
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Well you're one of the few. But I'd still like an answer to this?
 
#734
#734
BearCat204 said:
First off, you can stfu about my military background or about what I did or didnt do.

Secondly, not one bit of that means a thing and doesnt excuse Snowden of not doing exactly what he was charged with doing. Like I have said before, there are several legal avenues to report things and none of those avenues include publicly releasing information....there's no excuse for what he did.

I am in no way absolving the Government from the charge of unconstitutionally monitoring their citizens. I hope the leaders that made that call to authorize that are brought before justice as well. But, this doesnt absolve Snowden or what he did IMO.
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I like giving you a hard time. I'm sure you served honorably and I'm not making light of that. I do think that people who have served sometimes prove a little bit too trusting if government or want to follow protocol as they have been taught to do so.
 
#735
#735
BearCat204 said:
I have clearly stated that the officials who authorized this should face justice as well. Doesn't absolve Snowden though.
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Here's what should happen....

End the BS spying on Americans and shady practices (specifically parallel reconstruction and spying on allies).

Go after the people responsible for violating our rights as Americans.

President acknowledges Snowden broke law, but pardon him for being a whistleblower and informing the American people about their corrupt government.

Snowden comes home.

I just don't see how he's hurt any of us, and nobody can seem to give a decent argument that he's hurt us, let alone a satisfactory argument. Why should he face charges?
 
#736
#736
davethevol said:
I like giving you a hard time. I'm sure you served honorably and I'm not making light of that. I do think that people who have served sometimes prove a little bit too trusting if government or want to follow protocol as they have been taught to do so.
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I held a top secret clearance for all 4 years while I was in the Air Force. But it never my changed my moral values.
 
#737
#737
Vol8188 said:
I held a top secret clearance for all 4 years while I was in the Air Force. But it never my changed my moral values.
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That I can respect, just as respect Snowden, and even though Bearcat can be a real b-hole I actually respect him too.
 
#738
#738
CNCVol88 said:
So it's okay for the govt to be spying on its citizens without a warrant and with no probable cause?
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Do I have to highlight or perhaps write in crayon where I say that I think what the Government was doing was completely illegal and unconstitutional as well? You dont have to believe Snowden is a hero to also believe that what the Government was doing was very unconstitutional and heads should roll.
 
#739
#739
Vol8188 said:
I'm not saying you should be allowed to do it. I'm saying you should do it because it's the right thing to do. The hell with what the government deems acceptable. Be a man and stand for something.
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Yes, be a man and honor what you have sworn an oath to doing.
 
#741
#741
davethevol said:
I like giving you a hard time. I'm sure you served honorably and I'm not making light of that. I do think that people who have served sometimes prove a little bit too trusting if government or want to follow protocol as they have been taught to do so.
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You would be mistaken if you think I completely trust my Government. Doesnt change the fact that I have to go through certain avenues of oversight if I see something that I feel is illegal or unconstitutional with information that I am charged with.
 
#744
#744
BearCat204 said:
You would be mistaken if you think I completely trust my Government. Doesnt change the fact that I have to go through certain avenues of oversight if I see something that I feel is illegal or unconstitutional with information that I am charged with.
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Fair enough.
 
#745
#745
BearCat204 said:
We disagree with whats right then, because I dont think Snowden is right with how he went along with this. Feel free to question my manhood over that.
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I'm questioning why he is not right.

US officials committed treason. He reported it.
 
#746
#746
n_huffhines said:
Here's what should happen....

End the BS spying on Americans and shady practices (specifically parallel reconstruction and spying on allies).

Go after the people responsible for violating our rights as Americans.

President acknowledges Snowden broke law, but pardon him for being a whistleblower and informing the American people about their corrupt government.

Snowden comes home.

I just don't see how he's hurt any of us, and nobody can seem to give a decent argument that he's hurt us, let alone a satisfactory argument. Why should he face charges?
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I somewhat agree with most of that, except Snowden should face the consequences of improperly releasing information. IMO it sets a precedent and the safeguarding of all TSS/Secret/classified information is that important IMO.
 
#747
#747
Vol8188 said:
I'm questioning why he is not right.

US officials committed treason. He reported it.
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We should probably just agree to disagree. I agree with your first part, but cant agree to absolve Snowden of wrongdoing on the second part. Feel free to disagree.
 
#748
#748
BearCat204 said:
Oh, so now my moral values are changed....interesting.
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Are you on your period? Dave said service members he knows feel differently about this than other people (or at least that's how I read it). I'm saying that my service in no way influenced my opinion on this.
 
#749
#749
Vol8188 said:
Are you on your period? Dave said service members he knows feel differently about this than other people (or at least that's how I read it). I'm saying that my service in no way influenced my opinion on this.
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No, but thanks for asking. You know damn well what you were saying.
 
#750
#750
BearCat204 said:
Yes, be a man and honor what you have sworn an oath to doing.
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The oath you're probably referring to says "support and defend the constitution." You've stated you believe the government snooping is unconstitutional. There's a disconnect there.

As far as using the proper channels, my guess is these programs were greenlit all the way at the top across multiple administrations.
 
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