Edward Snowden: American Hero

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LouderVol said:
you were asking what else he could do besides going to work for a foreign government who is quite hostile to the US right now. I gave you options. he could have gone to work in Russia for what company and it not been as bad, thing is there Putin has his hands in every bit of business over there. you asked for possibilities and i listed them then you "defeated" my post by saying it wouldn't work in America after I said he didn't need to do that in America (except for option 3). you just refuse to admit he had other options.

he gave an interview where he talks about working for the Russian government. thats not an innocent jump.
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I'd like to see the interviews you're mentioning. But you're just assuming Russia would accept him into their country without receiving anything.
 
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#1,054
LouderVol said:
in china, who doesn't extradite.
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Exactly. If he stays on U.S. soil and willingly falls on the sword for the American people that he apparently cares so much for and faces the consequences for his actions, then he could be considered a hero. The whole situation changes. You couldn't get away with assassinating him after he'd gone public, because nobody would buy that he fell down a flight of stairs after outing the NSA and CIA in so many illegal actions.

Instead, he went to China, he's in Moscow and tried to go to Cuba. He is a self serving individual who probably felt he was being passed over and underutilized, just like Robert Hanssen and Aldrich Ames before him.

It is our Constitutional right to question our government, but it's amazing how some of you always give every country or individual the benefit of the doubt other than the United States. The United States is not perfect, but it's a helluva lot better than where Snowden is holed up right now.
 
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Vol8188 said:
I'd like to see the interviews you're mentioning. But you're just assuming Russia would accept him into their country without receiving anything.
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uh, no I am saying Russia only accepted him because he gave them something on the US. just google RT and snowden, he is apparently a font of information on what the NSA has done beyond spying on us.

and for the interview. it mentions specifically that he is working for Russian intelligence (now).

Snowden's life in Russia: ?Much happier than be unfairly tried in US? ? RT News

Edward Snowden interview - the edited transcript | US news | The Guardian
 
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RDU VOL#14 said:
Exactly. If he stays on U.S. soil and willingly falls on the sword for the American people that he apparently cares so much for and faces the consequences for his actions, then he could be considered a hero. The whole situation changes. You couldn't get away with assassinating him after he'd gone public, because nobody would buy that he fell down a flight of stairs after outing the NSA and CIA in so many illegal actions.

Instead, he went to China, he's in Moscow and tried to go to Cuba. He is a self serving individual who probably felt he was being passed over and underutilized, just like Robert Hanssen and Aldrich Ames before him.

It is our Constitutional right to question our government, but it's amazing how some of you always give every country or individual the benefit of the doubt other than the United States. The United States is not perfect, but it's a helluva lot better than where Snowden is holed up right now.
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There is nothing heroic about being an unnecessary martyr. He was going to get prison time at least. Why stay?

You know how I know he is a hero? Because if someone did the same thing in Russia, China, Venezuela, Germany, Britain, etc. all of us would be calling him hero.
 
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http://rt.com/news/snowden-nsa-interview-surveillance-831/
n_huffhines said:
Bump
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too bad he can't destroy his memories.

Washington and Tel Aviv were thought to have been behind the cyber-attack, however, this was never confirmed by either government.

“The NSA and Israel wrote Stuxnet together,” Snowden told Applebaum in the interview that was carried out in May.

Snowden stressed that the National Security Agency (NSA) often cooperates with foreign partners through a special body known as the Foreign Affairs Directorate (FAD). Referring to Britain, Australia, New Zealand and Canada, also known as the ‘Five Eye Partners,’ he said their practices often go further than those of the NSA.
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he doesn't have to have physical evidence.
 
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n_huffhines said:
There is nothing heroic about being an unnecessary martyr. He was going to get prison time at least. Why stay?

You know how I know he is a hero? Because if someone did the same thing in Russia, China, Venezuela, Germany, Britain, etc. all of us would be calling him hero.
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no, he made a fricking mess and left before he had to clean it up or deal with the smell.

lets say a coworker catches a big mistake your office has been doing. he then takes that mistake and makes it public then quits. is that guy are hero or at the very least a douche bag? and this is way worse than that situation.
 
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If Russia has information that helped them thwart our operations, our government would know and they would blame Snowden. We know what information Snowden had and had access to. That fact that we know what intelligence they might have helps us tremendously in avoiding disaster.

Nothing is going to happen
 
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n_huffhines said:
If Russia has information that helped them thwart our operations, our government would know and they would blame Snowden. We know what information Snowden had and had access to. That fact that we know what intelligence they might have helps us tremendously in avoiding disaster.

Nothing is going to happen
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And we're the conspiracy theorist here. I think some of them believe the Russians are going to invade the U.S. Red Dawn style thanks to Snowden.
 
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n_huffhines said:
You have no proof he has given the Russians anything. They would take him in simply because it makes our government look bad. "The US is so oppressive that whistleblowers feel they have to flee to Russia." kinda thing.

If he gave them something, what did he give them and how will it hurt us?
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he can give them information. I don't know exactly but there are any number of ways that this could hurt us. Lets say the Russians were behind the hacking attempt (or seeing how deep that was, lets just say they have their own hacks that haven't been identified yet) and they have a whole lot of information and don't know how to use it yet, or what it is. Snowden could easily give them one more piece of the puzzle (if not several pieces) and suddenly the Russians go from having a bunch of useless information to having really dangerous stuff. maybe more ideas on how to get around our laughable tech security, maybe where/how to look for more sensitive information that actively puts people in danger. (so that we have bodies now to make you accept this is dangerous)

you don't take a foreign agent into the fold without there being some serious benefits. you don't take him just to poke America, what if he isn't a traitor? they are getting some major pieces for this. and not just another tech grunt.
 
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And reiterating somebody else's point: If Snowden is a spy, why would he out himself? He could do more harm quietly feeding Russia intel for years to come.
 
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n_huffhines said:
There is nothing heroic about being an unnecessary martyr. He was going to get prison time at least. Why stay?

You know how I know he is a hero? Because if someone did the same thing in Russia, China, Venezuela, Germany, Britain, etc. all of us would be calling him hero.
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If he stays here, the narrative changes. The public outcry for answers becomes the story, not "where in the world is Eric Snowden?" The Who? What? Where? When? Why? in front of the Senate Oversight Committee become can't miss television. Snowden becomes a sympathetic figure who changed espionage policies forever for the "betterment" and privacy of the American people.
 
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Vol8188 said:
And we're the conspiracy theorist here. I think some of them believe the Russians are going to invade the U.S. Red Dawn style thanks to Snowden.
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or how about the knuckle heads who refuse to admit that this might lead to someone, anyone, one person, being hurt because of this. You don't find an issue with your line of thinking: Oh he just gave information thats ok, oh now someone got hurt ok he's a traitor now. you don't draw the line when someone gets hurt, the line is way before that. if our government has to spend one million dollars (a laughably low figure) to fix a leak or one thing that Snowden had access to and was able to point out for the Russians that is hurting America. money down the drain to plug a hole Snowden created.
 
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n_huffhines said:
You have no proof he has given the Russians anything. They would take him in simply because it makes our government look bad. "The US is so oppressive that whistleblowers feel they have to flee to Russia." kinda thing.

If he gave them something, what did he give them and how will it hurt us?
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Do you have any proof of this?

Also, please enlighten me on how the USG has been so oppressive to whistleblowers since the whistleblower act
 
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n_huffhines said:
And reiterating somebody else's point: If Snowden is a spy, why would he out himself? He could do more harm quietly feeding Russia intel for years to come.
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i am not with Volprof who believes he was a deep undercover agent for the Ruskies. I think he jumped ship without looking, and had to take the first life line that come across his path. it just so happens that that life line came from an enemy, and is therefore treason.
 
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Vol8188 said:
So you believe the Russians are going to attack America? Elaborate please.
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America it self? not because of this. If however they take out an agent/diplomat/soldier of ours on foreign soil because of information garnered from this I consider it the same. (not war but treason on the part of Snowden)
 
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LouderVol said:
America it self? not because of this. If however they take out an agent/diplomat/soldier of ours on foreign soil because of information garnered from this I consider it the same. (not war but treason on the part of Snowden)
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Why would the NSA have agents in other countries? That's the CIAs job, no theirs.
 
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Vol8188 said:
Why would the NSA have agents in other countries? That's the CIAs job, no theirs.
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no idea, doesn't have to be an NSA agent though that is in danger. as i said before snowden might just give them the piece of the information puzzle they need for mission X, Y or Z. impossible to say one way or the other, and yes we would likely never know one way or the other (him being responsible for it, and one of us dying due to Russian espionage). doesn't mean i am willing to risk that.
 
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Vol8188 said:
So you believe the Russians are going to attack America? Elaborate please.
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It's not about an all out conventional or nuclear war with the Russians. It's about a pin prick here and and a pin prick there, where eventually you gain a competitive advantage in the event of an actual war.
 
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RDU VOL#14 said:
It's not about an all out conventional or nuclear war with the Russians. It's about a pin prick here and and a pin prick there, where eventually you gain a competitive advantage in the event of an actual war.
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What possible advantage could this government contractor for the NSA provide?
 
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LouderVol said:
no idea, doesn't have to be an NSA agent though that is in danger. as i said before snowden might just give them the piece of the information puzzle they need for mission X, Y or Z. impossible to say one way or the other, and yes we would likely never know one way or the other (him being responsible for it, and one of us dying due to Russian espionage). doesn't mean i am willing to risk that.
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What I'm hearing you say is:

It's unlikely anyone is actually harmed from any information he may have given away, and I can't say for a fact that he has given anything way to begin with. But I hate him for some reason. Mainly because the media tells me I should.
 
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