Electric Vehicles

#327
#327
LouderVol said:
I am not determining what they need. They are with their life style choice. They may WANT a truck, which is fine, but most people dont NEED a truck.

I am just pointing out the hyprocisy about complaining about the costs of a 70k EV while driving a 70k truck, and claiming one of those isnt attainable for the general public.

This is why I said you were defensive from the start. You have been misconstruing my argument from the start, instead of addressing the actual point I am making.
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Even if you just sometimes need a truck to haul trash, help someone move, go camping, etc it’s a much better investment and waaaaaayyyyyyy more practical than an EV.
 
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#328
#328
InVOLuntary said:
My son is an electrical engineering student, a senior in his last semester at UT. Last semester in one class, they studied the energy demands of people coming home from work and plugging in. Their focus was energy storage to accommodate the surge. We can't support any significant switch to EVs right now. The phrase "melt down the grid" was used continuously.
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Why do you think TVA has a raccoon mountain pumping station? They use surplus nighttime electricity to pump water up the mountain then generate electricity during the peak daytime hours.
 
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#329
#329
OHvol40 said:
The US imported 7.9 million barrels of oil per day in 2020. What does energy independence mean to you?

I think everyone understands that energy to power electric cars has to come from somewhere and that the infrastructure for a majority EV US won’t happen overnight. I pointed out that the volatility in the oil market and recently skyrocketing prices are a great motivation to figure out how to be energy independent with a shift toward alternative sources that are both sustainable and cleaner while reducing our reliance on a global oil market largely controlled by OPEC.
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Oil imports and exports - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)

US started experiencing a sharp decline in net energy importing around 2016. If I recall, a lot of this had to do with the some of the new shale plays and the Permian basin ramping up production. This was virtually all private production as the Obama administration tried to shutdown new production on Federal land in the name of saving the planet.

By 2019, was net zero and became a net exporter of petroleum in 2020. Your quoted import number is the equivalent of shouting the US IMPORTS COTTON because we import products made with Egyptian cotton when in fact the US is the world's residual supplier of most agricultural commodities, including a substantial trade surplus of American Upland cotton.

So the question is, did you not actually research the topic or did you intentionally try to mislead everyone?
 
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#330
#330
walkenvol said:
Why do you think TVA has a raccoon mountain pumping station? They use surplus nighttime electricity to pump water up the mountain then generate electricity during the peak daytime hours.
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Lol, that's one of the means of storing energy they discussed. There's not many if those around. Not nearly enough and they're not always a practical solution.
 
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#331
#331
OHvol40 said:
Barely, and we were barely a net importer this year. So what?
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It means your anti-Trump premise for 2020 was false. But don't feel lonely. I disliked him as a person, but the majority of the attacks and claims against him, just like your claim here, were based on imagination.
 
#335
#335
hog88 said:
Energy independent means we could forgo imports and still meet our use. It doesn't mean we stopped importing.
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We COULD do that at anytime because we are right on the cusp of net importer/exporter in any given year. If producers aren’t running at max capacity then net importer vs net exporter isn’t the true measure of energy independence, it’s actually oil consumption vs max production capacity.
 
#336
#336
OHvol40 said:
I think many people here don’t understand what energy independence means. I think a lot of people think that US oil producers beg the president for access to their product and if their wish is granted then American producers magically make it rain cheap gas on American citizens and we all sing kumbaya. The US being a net exporter vs net importer has little bearing on a product that is priced and traded on a global market, and the oil that is produced here isn’t reserved strictly for our use at a discount as some here seem to believe it is.
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This shows an astounding lack of understanding of international economics.
 
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#337
#337
85SugarVol said:
“One drop of oil imported implies the US is not energy independent”

Net Exporter != Energy Independent
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Disagree. In fact I’d state that is categorically incorrect as presented at least. If you produce more than you consume you’re energy independent. You have the OPTION to import oil if it’s cheaper as a raw material for you. You don’t have that option if you consume more than you produce you MUST import a certain amount to meet needs.

This is basic supply and demand economics. The world excluded Russia’s supply with demand remaining constant. Prices will rise across the board. But once they reach the price point where local producers deem it worth their time then at least your own price should stabilize. As long as you must import from the same pool as everyone else your price continues to rise.
 
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#341
#341
InVOLuntary said:
The free market was cruising right along in developing practical and affordable EVs. Big government trying to accelerate it doesn't do any good. If government wants to do something, figure out how we're going to charge these cars, without fossil fuels. If we converted a significant number of our cars to electric today, the grid would literally melt when everyone got home to plug in. The infrastructure to support the EVs is way behind the tech of the EVs.
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Family of 4 with 4 cars right now. Doubt we will be tapping into 120K-200K for upgrades on EV.
 
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#342
#342
InVOLuntary said:
Lol, that's one of the means of storing energy they discussed. There's not many if those around. Not nearly enough and they're not always a practical solution.
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You’re missing the point (or more likely I’m poorly making my point). The grid has excess capacity during off peak hours. If EV’s are recharged during off peak hours then the existing grid can handle some amount of growth of EV’s. Maybe someone who works for TVA will chime in with real numbers
 
#343
#343
If the large mega cities in the northeast and on the west coast would outlaw cars and force people to mass transit, bicycles, etc., demand would plummet and price would too. It's a win/win. The people clutching their pearls over climate change can FINALLY live the way they want other to live. My cost at the pump goes down. Excelsior!!
 
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#344
#344
KB5252 said:
You know why we aren't opening the keystone?

Because ever large car manufacturer in the country is either breaking ground or has already broken ground in multi billion dollar facilities to manufacture electric vehicles. Two that I know of in Tennessee alone. Tens of billions of dollars in investments requires certain assurances from government.

In 20 years we'll have a new ecological disaster looming over us. The earth has built in mechanisms to deal with emissions over time, it does not have similar mechanisms to deal with caustic fluids and toxic metals. Why are we so stupid but to see this?
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Might want to get the cost of nickel down a tad.
 
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#345
#345
NorthDallas40 said:
Disagree. In fact I’d state that is categorically incorrect as presented at least. If you produce more than you consume you’re energy independent. You have the OPTION to import oil if it’s cheaper as a raw material for you. You don’t have that option if you consume more than you produce you MUST import a certain amount to meet needs.

This is basic supply and demand economics. The world excluded Russia’s supply with demand remaining constant. Prices will rise across the board. But once they reach the price point where local producers deem it worth their time then at least your own price should stabilize. As long as you must import from the same pool as everyone else your price continues to rise.
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I wasn’t making the argument. Was simply stating clearly what I believed his argument to be - hence the quotations.

I would much rather be a Net Exporter than Net Importer - but I imagine we will always import oil.

Having the flexibility to source anywhere, anytime will help lower the total cost for Americans.

But there is absolutely no reason for the United States of America to be dependent on anyone - we should be in the position to pick and choose where we source from.
 
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#346
#346
85SugarVol said:
We must obey the laws of thermodynamics.
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Well, liberals probably think those are "living documents" as well, subject to interpretation.

While typing this, a scenario popped into my mind of AOC explaining the laws of thermodynamics are nothing more than another display of white privilege and the government should do something about it.
 
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#348
#348
GroverCleveland said:
Well, liberals probably think those are "living documents" as well, subject to interpretation.

While typing this, a scenario popped into my mind of AOC explaining the laws of thermodynamics are nothing more than another display of white privilege and the government should do something about it.
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Lincoln often spoke of the racist underpinnings of thermodynamics.
 
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