Electric Vehicles

[utvolpj]

Sure but what do you think is fair when it’s zero?

Zero. Since when is taxation fair?

 

[Vol423]

Where have i ever made that claim?

Seems you have something else going on right now and are using me as a proxy. Look into that

So that post of yours had no point whatsoever. Yes. That checks out.

 

[DrRosenRosen]

Easy, fill out the fuel tax forms like commercial vehicles have to.

So in an ideal world we drop the tax at the pump and everyone fills out this worksheet?

I would guess total taxes collected would drop. But, just guessing.

 

[C-south]

Zero. Since when is taxation fair?

When everyone pays and it’s just enough for government to function.

 

[utvolpj]

When everyone pays and it’s just enough for government to function.

And you don't get there by increasing taxes.

$5T in tax revenue and you all are still trying to collect every penny possible. Why is that?

 

[DrRosenRosen]

Also, how does the federal govt know I have an EV to tax it? The $7500/whatever off incentive? Do they keep track of ev owners? Do they have easy access to state DBs?

 

[Willy P]

Maybe I could track the gas consumption of my boat and lawnmower, then convince our overlords that I’m supporting road maintenance in other ways.

 

[SlipKidVol]

How do we determine this? Govt going to come check my odometer?

Couldn't a tax be added at charging staion?

 

[DrRosenRosen]

Couldn't a tax be added at charging staion?

Agreed, but ~85% of charging is done at the home.

 

[SlipKidVol]

Agreed, but ~85% of charging is done at the home.

I should have thought of that

 

[C-south]

And you don't get there by increasing taxes.

$5T in tax revenue and you all are still trying to collect every penny possible. Why is that?

You aren’t addressing why every other automobile owner should pay except you. Unless of course you’re saying nobody should pay which, per usual, wouldn’t be realistic.

 

[utvolpj]

You aren’t addressing why every other automobile owner should pay except you. Unless of course you’re saying nobody should pay which, per usual, wouldn’t be realistic.

As was pointed out above, it's actually every gasoline user who pays. Lawn mower, generator, boat, wave runner, atv, snowmobile, etc. That fair?

There are lots of taxes that some people never pay. Should we now start penalizing them for tax avoidance?

 

[C-south]

As was pointed out above, it's actually every gasoline user who pays. Lawn mower, generator, boat, wave runner, atv, snowmobile, etc. That fair?

There are lots of taxes that some people never pay. Should we now start penalizing them for tax avoidance?

Seems like a weak hill to die on.

 

[BigOrangeMojo]

Also, how does the federal govt know I have an EV to tax it? The $7500/whatever off incentive? Do they keep track of ev owners? Do they have easy access to state DBs?

Yes, the credit paperwork would be likely where they would track you....

 

[DrRosenRosen]

Yes, the credit paperwork would be likely where they would track you....

Still don't see how they would know how much I drove it unless I claimed milage on tax write-offs.

 

[kiddiedoc]

Yes. Well the government never should have been involved in trying to motivate anyone to purchase an EV.

I don't disagree with that, at all. But I sure as hell don't mind reducing my tax burden when I find an avenue.

 

[LouderVol]

You: you should pay more taxes to this very efficient govt because of the car you drive

Me: you should pay less taxes no matter what car you drive

You: oh, you think you're special?

View attachment 723018

I don't care about getting rid of the tax break. However the Trump admin has floated the idea of a break for gas trucks. That will have a much greater impact but won't have the boogeyman ev attached

The nation's elite with their luxury vehicles must pay their "fair share" instead of sponging off the poor? It's cheap class politics. The tax is being sold to ignorant rubes who think anyone driving a Tesla is super wealthy. There aren't enough ev to make a difference and this is purely punitive.

The govt can do infrastructure without a miniscule, one-time $1k penalty to ev owners. Can we tax people who have no cars and use public transportation? Those busses aren't hovercraft

that's not where you started:

PJ: I am indifferent about getting rid of a tax break. why should I pay the same taxes as everyone else? How dare taxes come after my preferred method of transportation? How about we tax public transportation?

everyone else: the EV tax is closing a tax loophole

PJ: no its not.

everyone else: yes it is.

*repeat the last two lines for about 3 pages*

PJ: well all I wanted was to remove taxes, why don't you want to remove taxes?

everyone else: trying to figure out how you went from where you started to where you ended up...

 

[utvolpj]

that's not where you started:

PJ: I am indifferent about getting rid of a tax break. why should I pay the same taxes as everyone else? How dare taxes come after my preferred method of transportation? How about we tax public transportation?

everyone else: the EV tax is closing a tax loophole

PJ: no its not.

everyone else: yes it is.

*repeat the last two lines for about 3 pages*

PJ: well all I wanted was to remove taxes, why don't you want to remove taxes?

everyone else: trying to figure out how you went from where you started to where you ended up...

There no loophole or subsidy it's simply not addressed. I am consistent that we do not need new taxes, especially ones that are clearly politically directed at a small set of individuals.

You've confused them removing a tax break received with the newly suggested fee (2 seperate charges). Neither of which will affect me personally. Removing the subsidy is fine. Targeting people you disagree with using tax code is not. I'm in the same place I started

 

[LouderVol]

There no loophole or subsidy it's simply not addressed. I am consistent that we do not need new taxes, especially ones that are clearly politically directed at a small set of individuals.

You've confused them removing a tax break received with the newly suggested fee (2 seperate charges). Neither of which will affect me personally. Removing the subsidy is fine. Targeting people you disagree with using tax code is not. I'm in the same place I started

something that isn't addressed is a loophole. its literally the definition of loophole "an ambiguity or inadequacy in the law or a set of rules."

and you certainly aren't consistent about no new taxes, "Read my lips" anyone? you brought up taxes on public transportation at least twice. towards the later part of the argument you pivoted towards being against taxes, but you haven't been consistent.

and I pointed it out early on, you are falling for the rhetoric of Trump's administration, instead of paying attention to what they are actually doing. The tax hits Trump's biggest ally, Musk, this new tax hits his product, and as the largest EV manufacturer in the nation it hits him the hardest. Its hardly something ONLY targeting the people Trump disagrees with. its a tax that hits everyone, they aren't checking your pay and what party you are registered for when they apply this new tax. you are just falling into the LG/EL/Luther trap of only reacting to what was said, while ignoring the facts of what is done.

 

[utvolpj]

something that isn't addressed is a loophole. its literally the definition of loophole "an ambiguity or inadequacy in the law or a set of rules."

and you certainly aren't consistent about no new taxes, "Read my lips" anyone? you brought up taxes on public transportation at least twice. towards the later part of the argument you pivoted towards being against taxes, but you haven't been consistent.

and I pointed it out early on, you are falling for the rhetoric of Trump's administration, instead of paying attention to what they are actually doing. The tax hits Trump's biggest ally, Musk, this new tax hits his product, and as the largest EV manufacturer in the nation it hits him the hardest. Its hardly something ONLY targeting the people Trump disagrees with. its a tax that hits everyone, they aren't checking your pay and what party you are registered for when they apply this new tax. you are just falling into the LG/EL/Luther trap of only reacting to what was said, while ignoring the facts of what is done.

I asked about public transportation but said nothing about adding a tax. It was an example

I don't gaf about Musk and have said that several times. The quotes make it obvious this is a targeted fee/tax on people they paint as enemies. Their wealthy elite enemies who aren't paying their fair share ie cheating the country). Those quotes come from people receiving hundreds of thousands from oil/gas

These new changes don't affect me so support what you think is best. Clearly we're just on different sides of the fight over govt revenue

 

[YankeeVol]

Some direct quotes from the article mentioning income levels:

- cover the cost for the luxuries of the nation’s elite.

- handouts to our adversaries and high-income individuals

- The days of liberal elites in their expensive EV’s

My Ford lightning likely weighs less than the average f250. Which one has more tearing up the roads?

It's absolutely a punitive tax as displayed by the obvious disdain shown for ev drivers by the authors. How does a one time fee of $1k really do anything if these vehicles are truly tearing up the roads?

It weighs about the same as an F-250

Yet still more than a gas F-150

 

[Willy P]

If the average vehicle gets say 25 mpg, and travels 15,000 miles per year, that's $110 per year of federal gas tax collected at 18.4 cents per gallon. So over the span of 10 years, that $1K EV tax makes up for the lost federal revenue. I fully expect the feds to want that "lost" money.

 

[Vol423]

I don't disagree with that, at all. But I sure as hell don't mind reducing my tax burden when I find an avenue.

I agree.

 

[DrRosenRosen]

If the average vehicle gets say 25 mpg, and travels 15,000 miles per year, that's $110 per year of federal gas tax collected at 18.4 cents per gallon. So over the span of 10 years, that $1K EV tax makes up for the lost federal revenue. I fully expect the feds to want that "lost" money.

$1k tax done at purchase sucks for those buying new evs. It's also wildly different than what ICE cars pay. A decent percentage of these cars wont be around in 10 years due to problems, wrecks, etc. Strange to have half the cars on the road paying tax on a per use basis while the other half is paying some guesstimate upfront cost that may or not be even remotely close to the car's usage of public roads.

 

[hog88]

$1k tax done at purchase sucks for those buying new evs. It's also wildly different than what ICE cars pay. A decent percentage of these cars wont be around in 10 years due to problems, wrecks, etc. Strange to have half the cars on the road paying tax on a per use basis while the other half is paying some guesstimate upfront cost that may or not be even remotely close to the car's usage of public roads.

Agreed. EVs should be charged by the mile.