ESPN thinks we go 4-8 next year

[sjt18]

What was ESPN predicting for Auburn last year 6 months before they ran the ball straight down Bama's(writers) throat? Or Ok before the bowl? I can't recall what they where saying...but I feel confident ESPN wasn't predicting these teams to be anywhere near as good as they ended up.
4-8 is BS considering so many things. It really is somewhat of a toss up.





(edit) NOT saying we will be like AU....

IF Jones is as good of a coach as we would all like to believe then you are right. This team will surprise this "expert"... and most of the rest of them. But WAY too many here refuse to make quality of coaching a test for a coach... Before last season, many were saying 6-6 and competitive. Many of the same folks ended up excusing 5-7 with 4 blowout losses.

I like Jones. He appears to be doing alot of good things. But at the end of the day... just like anyone else in any walk of life... he has to produce good results measured in wins.

FWIW, there were MANY here ready to see Dooley fired after his 5-7 second season. He had a younger, thinner team to work with. He had only signed two classes. Why has the standard changed? I'm not saying he should be fired if he goes 5-7. I AM saying his job should NOT be considered secure if he goes 5-7 again and especially if the team isn't considerably more consistently competitive.

 

[sjt18]

Should have added more

My point was that this team is no better than last year and it will likely take another upset to get us to 5-7

Which of these games would be an "upset" if UT won: Vandy, UK, ASU, USU, or Chatt?

It would take another and maybe even worse underperformance of available talent to win less than 5 games this year.

 

[KBVol]

Meyer took over for Zook who is more incompetent than Dooley ever thought of being. Richt replaced a series of unsuccessful coaches. Saban took over for Shula who was a major flop. Saban at LSU took over for Hallman then Dinardo two of the worst coaches the SEC has ever seen. Chizik? What program fires good coaches?

Dooley wasn't the man to lift the program out of the hole it was in. The program was no worse off and probably a little better when he left than when he arrived. That whole line of excuse for any failure now... is a FAIL.

Whoa 18....Zook was more incompetent than Dooley ever thought of being? Zook finished 23-14 at Florida, went to 3 bowl games, finished 2nd, 1st and 3rd in the East while at Florida. He certainly wasn't up to the job following an all-time great at Florida, but to portray him as far more incompetent than Dooley is just not accurate...they're cut from the same cloth and Zook at least left Meyer with some talent to work with.

Also, I just will never agree with anyone who says Dooley left the program better than he found it after 3 years of unprecedented losing in all facets of the program. We're still digging out of the hole.

 

[sjt18]

You Dont know if they are better or worse. They haven't played a game.

MOST excused last year in large measure because it was the first year in a new system and due to the players not having been developed/recruited by this staff. Although other coaches had won early with players recruited and developed by someone else... folks adopted this "reason".

Every starter this fall will have had 2+ years in Jones' system... or will have beaten out someone who did. Every player will have gone through two full off-season programs with Jones' S&C coach and plan.

The talent will not be "ideal" so a East division championship is not likely. But at what point does coaching kick in and turn a 5 or 6 win team into a 7 or 8 win team? At what point do people stop making or accepting excuses?

There will ALWAYS be legitimate sounding excuses... Excuses do not produce results now OR in the future.

 

[utvolpj]

Should have added more

My point was that this team is no better than last year and it will likely take another upset to get us to 5-7

or you could have actually looked at games we could/should have won and gone the other way. Both require hypothetical situations that never happened yet you chose the negative one.

 

[Eddie Vol Halen]

Meyer took over for Zook who is more incompetent than Dooley ever thought of being. Richt replaced a series of unsuccessful coaches. Saban took over for Shula who was a major flop. Saban at LSU took over for Hallman then Dinardo two of the worst coaches the SEC has ever seen. Chizik? What program fires good coaches?

Dooley wasn't the man to lift the program out of the hole it was in. The program was no worse off and probably a little better when he left than when he arrived. That whole line of excuse for any failure now... is a FAIL.

Not entirely true, sjt18.

Zook has plenty of downside, but he literally left a National Championship team for Meyer. Literally. You're saying Meyer won the NC in Year Zero.

Dinardo and Ray Goff literally built teams with National Championship level talent. They weren't great coaches (hence, the next guys went one higher) but they aren't Dooley.

Even Shula won 10-games at one point. Dooley couldn't win 10-games in the NBA.

 

[sjt18]

Whoa 18....Zook was more incompetent than Dooley ever thought of being? Zook finished 23-14 at Florida, went to 3 bowl games, finished 2nd, 1st and 3rd in the East while at Florida. He certainly wasn't up to the job following an all-time great at Florida, but to portray him as far more incompetent than Dooley is just not accurate...they're cut from the same cloth and Zook at least left Meyer with some talent to work with.

Zook took over Spurriers' team. Loaded with talent. Dooley took over an absolute mess.

Also, I just will never agree with anyone who says Dooley left the program better than he found it after 3 years of unprecedented losing in all facets of the program. We're still digging out of the hole.

Of course you won't. Because facts don't matter when they conflict with what you want to believe. (edit: Sorry. That was a little harsh. I think you just aren't being objective in this case. That isn't necessarily your norm.)

Dooley didn't get the job done. He just wasn't good enough. But he DID inherit a terrible situation and one that was WORSE than the one he left Jones.

How many starts did the OL's Dooley inherit have compared to Jones? How many times had the QB's he had that first year even suit up in orange compared to Jones'? Compare the DL's. In fact, you can go position group by group and ALL except WR were worse when Dooley took over than when Jones took over.

Does that mean it was good? No. Better does not mean "good"... sometimes it just means not quite as terrible.

 

[Eddie Vol Halen]

IF Jones is as good of a coach as we would all like to believe then you are right. This team will surprise this "expert"... and most of the rest of them. But WAY too many here refuse to make quality of coaching a test for a coach... Before last season, many were saying 6-6 and competitive. Many of the same folks ended up excusing 5-7 with 4 blowout losses.

I like Jones. He appears to be doing alot of good things.

We do need to see big things in Year Two. A great coach makes a lot of things happen in Year Two.

And I agree with your standard - Tennessee should always have a great coach. I like Butch a lot; I hope he rises to the top.

 

[WoodsmanVol]

You Dont know if they are better or worse. They haven't played a game.

Amen!!!!!!!!!!!! :clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping:

 

[KBVol]

Zook took over Spurriers' team. Loaded with talent. Dooley took over an absolute mess.



Of course you won't. Because facts don't matter when they conflict with what you want to believe.

Dooley didn't get the job done. He just wasn't good enough. But he DID inherit a terrible situation and one that was WORSE than the one he left Jones.

How many starts did the OL's Dooley inherit have compared to Jones? How many times had the QB's he had that first year even suit up in orange compared to Jones'? Compare the DL's. In fact, you can go position group by group and ALL except WR were worse when Dooley took over than when Jones took over.

Does that mean it was good? No. Better does not mean "good"... sometimes it just means not quite as terrible.

You're so locked in to your flawed opinion on the job Dooley did, how bad the situation was when Kiffin left and how good the talent was on last years team that there is no debating with you. We all know where you stand on that, no worries. But how in the world you or anybody else can say that 3 years of the toxicity to every facet, every nook and cranny of the football program that was Derek Dooley..... how you can say the program was healthier, improved and better off than when he got there is beyond me. The performance of the football team on the field, in the classroom, at the bank, everywhere was worse. Btw, please notice that I've said absolutely nothing about Butch Jones here, he's completely irrelevant to this discussion.

 

[sjt18]

We do need to see big things in Year Two. A great coach makes a lot of things happen in Year Two.

And I agree with your standard - Tennessee should always have a great coach. I like Butch a lot; I hope he rises to the top.

I'm not even saying "big things". I'm saying win the 5 (6 if you are realistic about Mizzou's roster losses) where UT clearly has better talent then pick off someone out of OM, USCe, UF, or UGA where you are close enough.

I would see 6 or 7 wins with this young talent a good step in the right direction. I think it would demonstrate some coaching and development ability.

Frankly, I'd see another 5-7 season as an indication of problems in the coaching staff and particularly if there are 3 or 4 blowout losses again.

 

[sjt18]

Not entirely true, sjt18.

Zook has plenty of downside, but he literally left a National Championship team for Meyer. Literally. You're saying Meyer won the NC in Year Zero.

Not really. I am saying he had NC caliber talent and underperformed with it.

Even Shula won 10-games at one point. Dooley couldn't win 10-games in the NBA.

Not sure any of the other coaches you mentioned inherited a team without a single SEC worthy OL or DT on it.

 

[99gator]

Whoa 18....Zook was more incompetent than Dooley ever thought of being? Zook finished 23-14 at Florida, went to 3 bowl games, finished 2nd, 1st and 3rd in the East while at Florida. He certainly wasn't up to the job following an all-time great at Florida, but to portray him as far more incompetent than Dooley is just not accurate...they're cut from the same cloth and Zook at least left Meyer with some talent to work with.

Also, I just will never agree with anyone who says Dooley left the program better than he found it after 3 years of unprecedented losing in all facets of the program. We're still digging out of the hole.

this.

ron zook gets piled on for good reason. however, it gets to the point where it takes on a life of its own and a reputation is made. then, reputation takes over and people don't look at reality.

ron zook won. ron zook didn't win enough. and ron zook won some really big games as a head coach. in 2002, sec champ georgia was 12-1. the "1" was to a ron zook coached florida team. in 2003, national champ lsu was 12-1. the "1" was to a ron zook coached florida team.

there are others as well. his problem, among other things, is that he also had some head scratching losses.

and on top of all that, in 2007 illinois went to the rose bowl for the 1st time since 1982. during that season, illinois beat an undefeated ohio state team on the road in columbus.

derek dooley makes ron zook look like vince lombardi.

 

[CountVolcula]

or you could have actually looked at games we could/should have won and gone the other way. Both require hypothetical situations that never happened yet you chose the negative one.

Building a new Oline

New Dline

Unsure still at QB

Unsure at RB

This doesn't spell success in the SEC

 

[HollowaytoSeivers]

Will ESPN ever like us?

 

[Dave1967]

this.

ron zook gets piled on for good reason. however, it gets to the point where it takes on a life of its own and a reputation is made. then, reputation takes over and people don't look at reality.

ron zook won. ron zook didn't win enough. and ron zook won some really big games as a head coach. in 2002, sec champ georgia was 12-1. the "1" was to a ron zook coached florida team. in 2003, national champ lsu was 12-1. the "1" was to a ron zook coached florida team.

there are others as well. his problem, among other things, is that he also had some head scratching losses.

and on top of all that, in 2007 illinois went to the rose bowl for the 1st time since 1982. during that season, illinois beat an undefeated ohio state team on the road in columbus.

derek dooley makes ron zook look like vince lombardi.

King of the Florida flamers:nono:

 

[NotoriousB-I-G]

It's funny that Zook has entered this discussion, because frankly, that's a much better comparison to CBJ at this point than Spurrier. Zook went 23-15 at UF. In order to reach that level at UT, Jones needs to go 18-8 over the next two seasons, or 9-4 each year. Here's to hoping....

 

[VolFan4Life87]

IF Jones is as good of a coach as we would all like to believe then you are right. This team will surprise this "expert"... and most of the rest of them. But WAY too many here refuse to make quality of coaching a test for a coach... Before last season, many were saying 6-6 and competitive. Many of the same folks ended up excusing 5-7 with 4 blowout losses.

I like Jones. He appears to be doing alot of good things. But at the end of the day... just like anyone else in any walk of life... he has to produce good results measured in wins.

FWIW, there were MANY here ready to see Dooley fired after his 5-7 second season. He had a younger, thinner team to work with. He had only signed two classes. Why has the standard changed? I'm not saying he should be fired if he goes 5-7. I AM saying his job should NOT be considered secure if he goes 5-7 again and especially if the team isn't considerably more consistently competitive.

I think people are granting a temporary pass because he managed to do what Dooley never did which was sign a great class - and did so after 3 losing seasons. People are extrapolating this out and predicting success probably beyond what Jones & his staff are truly capable of (NC in year 3 or 4, etc), though that is yet to be determined.

Totally agree with you though, success is measured by the W/L column. At the end of the day, no matter how close we may come to getting over that hump, if Jones doesn't get UT to 7-8 wins in the next 2-3 years people will be calling for his head.

 

[dxhman]

Let's examine this rationally....we have stunk it up with our teams for the least 5 years....until we get it turned around they will continue to make predictions like this. I am much more concerned with what Butch thinks than I am ESPN. The guy sleeps, eats, breathes football with no hobbies other than football....We beat a Top 10 team last year...let's go for 2 next year......

 

[99gator]

You're so locked in to your flawed opinion on the job Dooley did, how bad the situation was when Kiffin left and how good the talent was on last years team that there is no debating with you. We all know where you stand on that, no worries. But how in the world you or anybody else can say that 3 years of the toxicity to every facet, every nook and cranny of the football program that was Derek Dooley..... how you can say the program was healthier, improved and better off than when he got there is beyond me. The performance of the football team on the field, in the classroom, at the bank, everywhere was worse. Btw, please notice that I've said absolutely nothing about Butch Jones here, he's completely irrelevant to this discussion.

this x1000.

that's why i think he's harsh on butch. if butch were to win right away, it could be used as some sort of proof in an argument that would indicate dooley left the program in good shape.

however, the program was not left in good shape. butch didn't win in year 1. year 2 will be a struggle and when butch does have success at tennessee there will be no trace of anything derek dooley at tennessee.

the best football talent on campus right now was recruited and signed by butch jones. a lot of freshman played last year.....and an unbelievable amount of freshman will play this year.

 

[Dave1967]

I think people are granting a temporary pass because he managed to do what Dooley never did which was sign a great class - and did so after 3 losing seasons. People are extrapolating this out and predicting success probably beyond what Jones & his staff are truly capable of (NC in year 3 or 4, etc), though that is yet to be determined.

Totally agree with you though, success is measured by the W/L column. At the end of the day, no matter how close we may come to getting over that hump, if Jones doesn't get UT to 7-8 wins in the next 2-3 years people will be calling for his head.

The inpatient folks on this board will be calling for Butch's head if UT doesn't go bowling this season. Volnation will be scary going into the 2015 O&W game if 2014 was a losing season.

 

[99gator]

King of the Florida flamers:nono:

i'm not flaming.

look, there are some....cough, cough....who don't want to admit it, but derek dooley may be the biggest coaching failure in the sec in my lifetime.

i think the award goes to curley hallman myself, but derek dooley is competitive.

 

[triad280]

Dooley's best year was his 1st year...and got progressively worse...
all those other coaches inherited talent,but just had bad coaching...Butch has to fight
no talent AND bad coaching...he's weeding both of those out as we speak...

 

[Dave1967]

i'm not flaming.

look, there are some....cough, cough....who don't want to admit it, but derek dooley may be the biggest coaching failure in the sec in my lifetime.

i think the award goes to curley hallman myself, but derek dooley is competitive.

Curley Hallman did a good job at USM when he had Brett Favre at QB. He beat FSU and Alabama in 1990.

 

[Vol8188]

Dooley's best year was his 1st year...and got progressively worse...
all those other coaches inherited talent,but just had bad coaching...Butch has to fight
no talent AND bad coaching...he's weeding both of those out as we speak...

I see no bad coaching from our staff.