ESPN thinks we go 4-8 next year

[Vol8188]

Curley Hallman did a good job at USM when he had Brett Favre at QB. He beat FSU and Alabama in 1990.

I forgot Bray was a Hall of famer

 

[VolsSportsFan]

I doubt 4-8, but I do think 5-7 is very possible again.

 

[thebjd]

UT sucked last yr and they were a fluky endzone fumble and block in the back away from being 7-5 instead of 5-7 last yr. 4-8 is not happening.

It could also be said we were one flukey play from being 4-8 last year. I don't see us going 4-8 because we will beat Vandy and Kentucky. 4-8 would be a doomsday scenario and it just won't happen.

 

[HollowaytoSeivers]

i'm not flaming.

look, there are some....cough, cough....who don't want to admit it, but derek dooley may be the biggest coaching failure in the sec in my lifetime.

i think the award goes to curley hallman myself, but derek dooley is competitive.

Steve Sloan's time at Ole Miss and Woody Widenhofer also should receive consideration.

 

[thebjd]

FWIW, there were MANY here ready to see Dooley fired after his 5-7 second season. He had a younger, thinner team to work with. He had only signed two classes. Why has the standard changed? I'm not saying he should be fired if he goes 5-7. I AM saying his job should NOT be considered secure if he goes 5-7 again and especially if the team isn't considerably more consistently competitive.

The standard has changed for me because of a top five recruiting class. Dooley never sniffed what Jones has been able to do in recruiting and in fact went the opposite direction. If we are losing and recruiting worse players than the ones we have then the program is not going to improve. The best class Dooley ever signed was the one he inherited from Kiffin.

 

[KBVol]

this.

ron zook gets piled on for good reason. however, it gets to the point where it takes on a life of its own and a reputation is made. then, reputation takes over and people don't look at reality.

ron zook won. ron zook didn't win enough. and ron zook won some really big games as a head coach. in 2002, sec champ georgia was 12-1. the "1" was to a ron zook coached florida team. in 2003, national champ lsu was 12-1. the "1" was to a ron zook coached florida team.

there are others as well. his problem, among other things, is that he also had some head scratching losses.

and on top of all that, in 2007 illinois went to the rose bowl for the 1st time since 1982. during that season, illinois beat an undefeated ohio state team on the road in columbus.

derek dooley makes ron zook look like vince lombardi.

Exactly. Thanks 99 for giving more details and facts about Zook that shows that he was indeed a much better coach than Dooley could evidently dream of being.

Zook leaves Florida after never finishing worse than 3rd in the East, has multiple signatures wins against some of the top teams in the country, and leaves enough talent for a great young coach like Meyer to step in, take the program to the next level and win a national championship in 2 years......and someone wants to try and make the absolutely ridiculous comment that he was considerably more incompetent than a UT hire who never got a signature win, never had a winning season, did such a poor job stressing academics that UT was the laughingstock of the SEC and damn near ineligible for a bowl game (lol, like that was gonna happen), won fewer games each year than the year before (6,5,4) and left the next coach with so much talent that 1 out of every 7 players taken on the travel squad to Oregon last year was a damn walkon. Brilliant.

 

[Dave1967]

Steve Sloan's time at Ole Miss and Woody Widenhofer also should receive consideration.

Kind of strange that Sloan was tough on UT while He was at Ole Miss. In 1979 his Ole Miss team beat UT 44-20(the week after the Notre Dame game).

 

[99gator]

Steve Sloan's time at Ole Miss and Woody Widenhofer also should receive consideration.

no coach at vanderbilt or kentucky should be in the running.

they get a pass.

 

[KBVol]

Steve Sloan's time at Ole Miss and Woody Widenhofer also should receive consideration.

Can't include any coach from Vandy IMO. Expectations are too low to begin with. Woody should've been given a medal for how competitive his defenses were, especially vs Peyton.

 

[NotoriousB-I-G]

i'm not flaming.

look, there are some....cough, cough....who don't want to admit it, but derek dooley may be the biggest coaching failure in the sec in my lifetime.

i think the award goes to curley hallman myself, but derek dooley is competitive.

I'll take Brad Scott who finished with 23 wins and 32 losses after 5 seasons at South Carolina back in the 90's.

He has never sniffed another head coaching opportunity, although he's been a long time assistant at Clemson since.

 

[NotoriousB-I-G]

Exactly. Thanks 99 for giving more details and facts about Zook that shows that he was indeed a much better coach than Dooley could evidently dream of being.

Zook leaves Florida after never finishing worse than 3rd in the East, has multiple signatures wins against some of the top teams in the country, and leaves enough talent for a great young coach like Meyer to step in, take the program to the next level and win a national championship in 2 years......and someone wants to try and make the absolutely ridiculous comment that he was considerably more incompetent than a UT hire who never got a signature win, never had a winning season, did such a poor job stressing academics that UT was the laughingstock of the SEC and damn near ineligible for a bowl game (lol, like that was gonna happen), won fewer games each year than the year before (6,5,4) and left the next coach with so much talent that 1 out of every 7 players taken on the travel squad to Oregon last year was a damn walkon. Brilliant.

The problem is, after exiting their first seasons at UT, Dooley was ahead of where Butch Jones is in terms of wins-losses. And remember the horrific roster Dooley inherited, a Kiffin signing class that virtually evaporated after Kiffin left, and mass transfers, which led to the "year zero" mantra. CBJ going 4-8 in year two would be devastating in my opinion. Having said that, I dont think it will happen. I see 5 to 6 wins this year.

 

[triad280]

I see no bad coaching from our staff.

not from the present staff,weeding out bad coaching,techniques and habits from the previous staff...

 

[HollowaytoSeivers]

Kind of strange that Sloan was tough on UT while He was at Ole Miss. In 1979 his Ole Miss team beat UT 44-20(the week after the Notre Dame game).

I had forgotten about that one. For some reason, Tennessee always seemed to have trouble with Ole Miss in the 1970s. It drove me crazy because I had friends who were Ole Miss fans that gave me massive grief after some of those losses.

That wasn't the only time UT suffered a letdown following a huge win. Following UT's 14-13 upset of #1 LSU in 1959, the Vols lost their next three games to Ole Miss, UK, and Vandy. After the 1982 win over Bama, UT went to Georgia Tech and lost 31-21. In 1990, following the 45-3 rout of Steve Spurrier's first Florida team, UT lost a battle of field goals and blocked field goals to Bama, 9-6. I had to look up the scores, but those last two games themselves were (sadly) easy to remember.

 

[HollowaytoSeivers]

no coach at vanderbilt or kentucky should be in the running.

they get a pass.

I see your point, but way their fans go on after they get a win against the Vols, I just had to do it.

 

[ntxVOL]

There's really little difference in a 5-7 team and a 7-5 team. I think one problem is a lack of confidence in this staff. We should expect to get to a bowl this year. This team should be prepared to do what it takes to make that happen. That is my expectation, anything less will be a disappointment.

Whatever happens, CBJ just signed 35 players in his first real class. Barring a complete train wreck, that class needs at least 2 more seasons beyond this one to mature before we can begin to judge this coach.

 

[triad280]

There's really little difference in a 5-7 team and a 7-5 team. I think one problem is a lack of confidence in this staff. We should expect to get to a bowl this year. This team should be prepared to do what it takes to make that happen. That is my expectation, anything less will be a disappointment.

Whatever happens, CBJ just signed 35 players in his first real class. Barring a complete train wreck, that class needs at least 2 more seasons beyond this one to mature before we can begin to judge this coach.

thats crazy talk to 1/2 of VN... but I wholeheartedly agree

 

[CountVolcula]

I see no bad coaching from our staff.

I wouldn't go that far

Not taking advantage of a depleted Vandy secondary could be considered bad coaching

I will say Butch learned from a mistake in the Georgia game that likely cost us that game and it wasn't Pigs fumble

Jones could have burned more clock before that last score, but he left too much time for Georgia to score

The very next week, he didn't make that mistake with USC. I give him credit for that. That was smart

 

[Brave Volunteer]

There will be 1 team in both the East and West that will surprise, hope we are the team in the East, if we go 4 and 8 you are talking about a long and hard up hill battle, would be a hard sell to recruits, now on the other hand if we can get 7 and a bowl win we will be turning 4 star recruits down.

Agreed. 4-8 CAN NOT HAPPEN (or 5-7 for that matter). If it does we will completely lose this year's recruiting class and any momentum CBJ has worked so hard to build.

 

[sjt18]

The standard has changed for me because of a top five recruiting class. Dooley never sniffed what Jones has been able to do in recruiting and in fact went the opposite direction. If we are losing and recruiting worse players than the ones we have then the program is not going to improve. The best class Dooley ever signed was the one he inherited from Kiffin.

Zook could recruit. Recruiting without great development and coaching might get UT back above .500. With the level of competition in the SEC, it isn't going to win championships.

I am still very hopeful that Jones is a good coach. But I am NOT willing to swallow the lowering of expectations that so many here seem to engage in. I don't want to JUST see good recruiting. I want to see championship caliber coaching and development. I think that equals 6-8 wins this fall. Five or fewer wins would indicate a second consecutive season of underachieving the talent on the roster.

Many here are already excusing a 5-7 season. How many will be excused before someone is willing to say the emperor has no clothes?

So again... at what point do you expect good coaching to change results?

 

[thebjd]

Zook could recruit. Recruiting without great development and coaching might get UT back above .500. With the level of competition in the SEC, it isn't going to win championships.

I am still very hopeful that Jones is a good coach. But I am NOT willing to swallow the lowering of expectations that so many here seem to engage in. I don't want to JUST see good recruiting. I want to see championship caliber coaching and development. I think that equals 6-8 wins this fall. Five or fewer wins would indicate a second consecutive season of underachieving the talent on the roster.

Many here are already excusing a 5-7 season. How many will be excused before someone is willing to say the emperor has no clothes?

So again... at what point do you expect good coaching to change results?

This is the first year his players will be on the field. They are talented and young. I expect us to play better but the upperclassmen do not know how to win. I am hopeful for a 7 win season, would be upset with a 7 loss season and would suffer through but accept 6-6.

 

[MustafaRasta]

Meyer took over for Zook who is more incompetent than Dooley ever thought of being. Richt replaced a series of unsuccessful coaches. Saban took over for Shula who was a major flop. Saban at LSU took over for Hallman then Dinardo two of the worst coaches the SEC has ever seen. Chizik? What program fires good coaches?

Dooley wasn't the man to lift the program out of the hole it was in. The program was no worse off and probably a little better when he left than when he arrived. That whole line of excuse for any failure now... is a FAIL.

You're wrong.

My guess is you know you're disingenuous. You just don't care so you can try and make your point. We all know the point by now too....you're still emotionally hurt over looking like a bufoon about Dooley. I get it. It hurts to look like a fool. You need to get over it, we all make mistakes. I once bought a Ford Focus.

 

[KBVol]

The problem is, after exiting their first seasons at UT, Dooley was ahead of where Butch Jones is in terms of wins-losses. And remember the horrific roster Dooley inherited, a Kiffin signing class that virtually evaporated after Kiffin left, and mass transfers, which led to the "year zero" mantra. CBJ going 4-8 in year two would be devastating in my opinion. Having said that, I dont think it will happen. I see 5 to 6 wins this year.

Have agreed that Dooley took over a very difficult situation with regards to the recruiting class and overall stability of the program. I thought he did a nice job early on as his highest single season win total was year 1 amidst all the "chaos"....won 6, could've pretty easily won 8.

My contention is that rather than improve recruiting, wins and loss and his players performance in the class room, quite the opposite happened. 6 wins....5 wins....4 wins. The fact that Dooley's win-loss record steadily got worse, that he was responsible for 2 of the worst losses in UT football history in his 2nd and 3rd years (Kentucky in 2011 & Vandy in 2012) fully negates the credit you might want to give him for winning 6 gms his first year to CBJ's 5 in his first year. Also throw in that his team was dead last in APR in the SEC, a point not lost on opposing SEC coaches like James Franklin who was using that to negatively recruit against UT.

A final quick point. Only 11 of the 22 players that Dooley signed in 2012, his last class, remain on this years team. Of those 11, only 2 are poised to make any contributions outside of special teams....Jason Croom, our 4th WR and Danny O'Brien, a DT that will likely only provide depth at the D tackle position.

 

[MustafaRasta]

Have agreed that Dooley took over a very difficult situation with regards to the recruiting class and overall stability of the program. I thought he did a nice job early on as his highest single season win total was year 1 ad midst all the "chaos"....won 6, could've pretty easily won 8.

My contention is that rather than improve recruiting, wins and loss and his players performance in the class room, quite the opposite happened. 6 wins....5 wins....4 wins. The fact that Dooley's win-loss record steadily got worse, that he was responsible for 2 of the worst losses in UT football history in his 2nd and 3rd years (Kentucky in 2011 & Vandy in 2012) fully negates the credit you might want to give him for winning 6 gms his first year to CBJ's 5 in his first year. Also throw in that his team was dead last in APR in the SEC, a point not lost on opposing SEC coaches like James Franklin who was using that to negatively recruit against UT.

A final quick point. Only 11 of the 22 players that Dooley signed in 2012, his last class, remain on this years team. Of those 11, only 2 are poised to make any contributions outside of special teams....Jason Croom, our 4th WR and Danny O'Brien, a DT that will likely only provide depth at the D tackle position.

He didn't sign an OL.

We had 4 starters all set to graduate at the same time and one guy who predicted to go early. He didn't sign 1 OL...

 

[KBVol]

He didn't sign an OL.

We had 4 starters all set to graduate at the same time and one guy who predicted to go early. He didn't sign 1 OL...

Yep. But wait Rasta.... Kiffin left him the worst mess since Sherman ran through Atlanta....too much to overcome from 2010....you can't reasonably expect him to sign even one single solitary OL in 2012 can you? Come on, be reasonable.

 

[VolFan4Life87]

I've argued with sjt on this before KBVol and I'm with you. I truly don't see how anyone can make an argument that holds water that Butch Jones inherited a better Tennessee football program, in its entirety, than Derek Dooley did. And yes, recruiting class rankings and performance on and off the field declined steadily with Dooley at the helm. There's no reason the 2012 squad should not have won 8 games. Thank God they didn't, or Dooley would still be here.