ESPN thinks we go 4-8 next year

#527
#527
Boca Vol said:
If you're Dave Hart sitting with Butch Jones with the schedule in front of you, you take out your orange marker and circle USU, Arky St., UTC, UK, and Vandy as wins. That means Butch needs to win just 1 of the following for UT to be bowl eligible:

Oklahoma
UGA
UF
Bama
Mizzou
S. Carolina
Ole Miss

If Butch is our guy, he should be able to get 1 or 2 of those. There is no reason to expect anything less than 7-5 this season.

The problem becomes (as the 2012-13 teams showed) is when you lose a couple of winnable games how does the team play at the end of the season?
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this
 
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#528
#528
BeattieFeathers said:
I suppose nick saban got out coached by watson brown when he lost to Uab? Who was the guy at la tech that beat him?
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Nick Saban? Saban has had a few games where he and his team went flat. Utah a few years ago. OU last year.

But then again, he had already lifted a wrecked program out of a ditch to win a National Championship within 4 years. He'd beaten multiple ranked teams.

To say his margin for error is, and should be, much wider than Jones' is a massive understatement.

It doesn't help your argument to attempt a comparison to a guy who has PROVEN he can beat the best of the best who happened to have a few bad losses over the course of a career where he's won 5 SEC titles and 4 NC's with a 80% win rate in the SEC.
 
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#529
#529
sjt18 said:
Nick Saban? Saban has had a few games where he and his team went flat. Utah a few years ago. OU last year.

But then again, he had already lifted a wrecked program out of a ditch to win a National Championship within 4 years. He'd beaten multiple ranked teams.

To say his margin for error is, and should be, much wider than Jones' is a massive understatement.

It doesn't help your argument to attempt a comparison to a guy who has PROVEN he can beat the best of the best who happened to have a few bad losses over the course of a career where he's won 5 SEC titles and 4 NC's with a 80% win rate in the SEC.
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i agree with you on the level of expectation.

however, at what point do you remain calm and wait it out and what point do you jump ship.

if he's a game off of expectations with a team as young as tennessee will field, do you give up on the guy?

or are you simply taking note of the fact he hasn't met expectations yet?
 
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#532
#532
sjt18 said:
Nick Saban? Saban has had a few games where he and his team went flat. Utah a few years ago. OU last year.

But then again, he had already lifted a wrecked program out of a ditch to win a National Championship within 4 years. He'd beaten multiple ranked teams.

To say his margin for error is, and should be, much wider than Jones' is a massive understatement.

It doesn't help your argument to attempt a comparison to a guy who has PROVEN he can beat the best of the best who happened to have a few bad losses over the course of a career where he's won 5 SEC titles and 4 NC's with a 80% win rate in the SEC.
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he lost to uab in 2000......way before he won any titles. try again! And as for this margin for error argument for spurrier and saban, what sense does that make? Wouldn't you think a younger coach with less stature would need more time? Especially with a roster as pathetic and pitiful as ours was when he got here? Our defense last year was embarrassinly slooooooooow and no amount of coaching would have helped. But, you guys keep up with the sabor rattling because that's what our fanbase is known for. keep it up.....:peace2:
 
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#533
#533
99gator said:
i agree with you on the level of expectation.

however, at what point do you remain calm and wait it out and what point do you jump ship.

if he's a game off of expectations with a team as young as tennessee will field, do you give up on the guy?

or are you simply taking note of the fact he hasn't met expectations yet?
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it's unfortunate that we have a gator bringing a little sanity to this unbridled optimism/sabor rattling. I am not going to put a number on how many wins he must have by year 2.3.4 etc. To pretend that the competition level shouldn't matter is utterly ridiculous. I'm also going to factor into the equation that we might slip up against a non traditional power. It happens and its due to happen to us at some point.
 
#536
#536
BigOrangeTrain said:
Just out of curiosity, you think Butch is the lucky one not us, what coach do you think we would have ended up with? All of our top choices turned us down. Also what makes you so certain we have a losing season this year?
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By "all of our top choices" you mean the two guys Hart interviewed who were obviously looking for raises? Gundy was never going to leave his alma mater and Strong got more to stay at Lousiville than we were willing to spend. That's hardly enough evidence to say that there weren't plenty of other guys out there we could have gotten. Malzahn might have been interested in making $500,000 more per year than Auburn paid him. Most coaches would.
 
#539
#539
99gator said:
are you actually trying to compare muschamp's situation when he took over at florida to jones' situation when taking over at tennessee?
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I'm just telling a rival fan that they should be happy with mediocrity and give it as long as possible to play out. You know, like your entire purpose on this board.
 
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#541
#541
Boca Vol said:
If you're Dave Hart sitting with Butch Jones with the schedule in front of you, you take out your orange marker and circle USU, Arky St., UTC, UK, and Vandy as wins. That means Butch needs to win just 1 of the following for UT to be bowl eligible:

Oklahoma
UGA
UF
Bama
Mizzou
S. Carolina
Ole Miss

If Butch is our guy, he should be able to get 1 or 2 of those. There is no reason to expect anything less than 7-5 this season.

The problem becomes (as the 2012-13 teams showed) is when you lose a couple of winnable games how does the team play at the end of the season?
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Couldn't agree more. I would bet get one of UGA or SCar...for whatever reason, we just always matchup well with those guys...kinda opposite from how we never matchup worth a damn vs Florida. Throw in Mizzou at home and a decent shot of getting a win at Ole Miss. Those are our best chances IMO. Virtually no shot vs OU and Bama and I believe we beat Florida when I actually see it....no way anybody should predict a Florida win IMHO.
 
#542
#542
oregonvol said:
I'm just telling a rival fan that they should be happy with mediocrity and give it as long as possible to play out. You know, like your entire purpose on this board.
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who's saying you should be happy with mediocrity?

i think you do have to let a coaching tenure play out for a few years. that's at any school.
 
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#543
#543
99gator said:
who's saying you should be happy with mediocrity?

i think you do have to let a coaching tenure play out for a few years. that's at any school.
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If by "play out" you mean, the coach gets to keep his job, then that's obvious. No one here is calling for Butch Jones to be fired.

If by "play out" you mean, refuse to criticize the coach and blame the talent/situation/previous coaches for their every failure, then that's just moronic.
 
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#544
#544
oregonvol said:
If by "play out" you mean, the coach gets to keep his job, then that's obvious. No one here is calling for Butch Jones to be fired.

If by "play out" you mean, refuse to criticize the coach and blame the talent/situation/previous coaches for their every failure, then that's just moronic.
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no. what's moronic is expecting a guy to perform wonders with an inherited roster full of turds when competing against the best conference in america and adding a non conference game against a top 10 opponent on the road his first two seasons.....just for fun.

throw in injuries and a bunch of inherited guys with no talent learning a new system on offense and defense and it's just been peachy.

now in year 2, tennessee has 53 1st and 2nd year players on the roster.

the 2nd year hasn't started yet and people are beginning to question if he's the guy.

if you want to be critical, that's cool. but, you have to look at the whole picture
 
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#545
#545
99gator said:
no. what's moronic is expecting a guy to perform wonders with an inherited roster full of turds when competing against the best conference in america and adding a non conference game against a top 10 opponent on the road his first two seasons.....just for fun.

throw in injuries and a bunch of inherited guys with no talent learning a new system on offense and defense and it's just been peachy.

now in year 2, tennessee has 53 1st and 2nd year players on the roster.

the 2nd year hasn't started yet and people are beginning to question if he's the guy.

if you want to be critical, that's cool. but, you have to look at the whole picture
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well said sir! but in general, I look for Vol fans to question Butch even if we win "just" 7 games. They'll be critical of those 7 just as they were Coach Martin "backing into" the Sweet Sixteen . It is who we are! We finally beat a "bad" Florida or "bad" Missouri who lost their qb. It's just how we roll around here. Don't you know Jon Gruden covets this job? We've been a laughingstock since Coach Fulmer was unceremoniously fired. That looks like the dumbest decision of all mankind since we can only think one step at a time. :whatever:
 
#546
#546
99gator said:
no. what's moronic is expecting a guy to perform wonders with an inherited roster full of turds when competing against the best conference in america and adding a non conference game against a top 10 opponent on the road his first two seasons.....just for fun.

throw in injuries and a bunch of inherited guys with no talent learning a new system on offense and defense and it's just been peachy.

now in year 2, tennessee has 53 1st and 2nd year players on the roster.

the 2nd year hasn't started yet and people are beginning to question if he's the guy.

if you want to be critical, that's cool. but, you have to look at the whole picture
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No one was asking him to perform wonders. A bowl game, a win over Vanderbilt, any improvement over the worst record of the worst coach we've ever had... those aren't lofty expectations.

And everyone has injuries. Muschamp had as many as anyone and I don't see you wanting to give him a pass. Everyone in the SEC has to play a tough schedule. Muschamp had to play the national champion and I don't see you wanting to give him a pass.
 
#547
#547
oregonvol said:
No one was asking him to perform wonders. A bowl game, a win over Vanderbilt, any improvement over the worst record of the worst coach we've ever had... those aren't lofty expectations.

And everyone has injuries. Muschamp had as many as anyone and I don't see you wanting to give him a pass. Everyone in the SEC has to play a tough schedule. Muschamp had to play the national champion and I don't see you wanting to give him a pass.
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Everyone does not play a tough schedule, especially ooc. look at Vandy and Arkansas! Furthermore, we only have three players remaining from Dooley's last recruiting class. Your redshirt sophomore/junior class should be your best class, all things being equal, as the NFL hasn't poached the roster yet. When I went to the scrimmage last fall, I was aghast at some of the kids wearing the orange shirt. Butch Jones still has a bunch of pretenders on the roster.
 
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#548
#548
The problem I have with our schedule is does the team give up.

We play Utah State and Arkansas State to open the season. If Butch is "The" Coach, we should win those, hands down.

So, we're 2-0
We lose @ Oklahoma 2-1
We lose @ Georgia 2-2
We lose to Florida 2-3, coming from a loss @ Georgia and they get a bye week to heal up and gameplan...
We beat Chatt 3-3
We then probably lose at Ole Miss (puke) 3-4
We lose to Alabama 3-5
We lose to South Carolina 3-6

Which would mean we would have to win the final 3 games Kentucky (win), Missouri (toss up), Vanderbilt (should win)

If we lose that game to Missouri and the team knows we're not bowl eligible, I'm afraid we fold and lose to Vanderbilt also. If we do, we finish 4 and freaking 8...

This schedule is a nightmare
 
#549
#549
UT_Tix79 said:
The problem I have with our schedule is does the team give up.

We play Utah State and Arkansas State to open the season. If Butch is "The" Coach, we should win those, hands down.

So, we're 2-0
We lose @ Oklahoma 2-1
We lose @ Georgia 2-2
We lose to Florida 2-3, coming from a loss @ Georgia and they get a bye week to heal up and gameplan...
We beat Chatt 3-3
We then probably lose at Ole Miss (puke) 3-4
We lose to Alabama 3-5
We lose to South Carolina 3-6

Which would mean we would have to win the final 3 games Kentucky (win), Missouri (toss up), Vanderbilt (should win)

If we lose that game to Missouri and the team knows we're not bowl eligible, I'm afraid we fold and lose to Vanderbilt also. If we do, we finish 4 and freaking 8...

This schedule is a nightmare
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It would be difficult under the best conditions. Currently, we are probably underdogs in 8 out of 12 games. Mike Hamilton was complete moron scheduling Oregon and Oklahoma in back to back years on the road. Georgia has not played a game outside the south in over fifty years!:realmad:
 
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