ESPN thinks we go 4-8 next year

[BigOrangeTrain]

By "all of our top choices" you mean the two guys Hart interviewed who were obviously looking for raises? Gundy was never going to leave his alma mater and Strong got more to stay at Lousiville than we were willing to spend. That's hardly enough evidence to say that there weren't plenty of other guys out there we could have gotten. Malzahn might have been interested in making $500,000 more per year than Auburn paid him. Most coaches would.

So who were the other quality guys that were available? We ended up paying CBJ more than Strong or Gundy made. There were not a lot of big time quality coaches that were lined up to take the job.

 

[sjt18]

well said sir! but in general, I look for Vol fans to question Butch even if we win "just" 7 games. They'll be critical of those 7 just as they were Coach Martin "backing into" the Sweet Sixteen . It is who we are! We finally beat a "bad" Florida or "bad" Missouri who lost their qb. It's just how we roll around here. Don't you know Jon Gruden covets this job? We've been a laughingstock since Coach Fulmer was unceremoniously fired. That looks like the dumbest decision of all mankind since we can only think one step at a time. :whatever:

Please find ONE person here who would be questioning Jones if he wins 7 games.

I never wanted Gruden. I don't particularly like circuses or egos bigger than the teams they coach.

UT became a laughing stock leading to Fulmer being fired. Of course it would have taken a few more losing seasons and a team that had to play 235 lb walk ons at DT before you would have considering it time for a change... if then.


Set a standard. Demand it be met. IF you don't like that... take it up with Jones. He preaches it to his players all the time. I'm just applying it to him and his staff too. FTR, I think he does also just not quite as publicly as with the players.

 

[sjt18]

So who were the other quality guys that were available? We ended up paying CBJ more than Strong or Gundy made. There were not a lot of big time quality coaches that were lined up to take the job.

If you aren't going to pay NFL money, I like taking a shot with Jones. He may not work out but he was certainly worth a try based on resume.

 

[BeattieFeathers]

Roster full of turds... with 6 or 7 guys who will be on an NFL roster this fall in all likelihood? OK.



Why are you questioning Muschamp and predicting his demise? He didn't inherit a very good situation from Meyer. Season before last he gave you a solid 11 win season. We have just as much reason if not more to question if Jones is the guy as you do to question whether Muschamp is the guy.

Those 6 or 7 guys are mostly from the offensive line. Though talented, these players were more suited to play in a conventional offense, not Butch's spread. In addition, our kicker is one of the six or seven. No skill players from last season will be drafted, unless Neal goes very late. You have vastly over rated our talent and you refuse to accept what the national media has pointed out to you. My goodness, we will be underdogs in eight games. Mercy!

 

[BeattieFeathers]

Roster full of turds... with 6 or 7 guys who will be on an NFL roster this fall in all likelihood? OK.



Why are you questioning Muschamp and predicting his demise? He didn't inherit a very good situation from Meyer. Season before last he gave you a solid 11 win season. We have just as much reason if not more to question if Jones is the guy as you do to question whether Muschamp is the guy.

According to the experts, Meyer recruited at a high level, so it's not like the mess jones inherited at Tennessee. Dooley was signing low hanging fruit and diamonds in the rough. Not a recipe for success.

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

Roster full of turds... with 6 or 7 guys who will be on an NFL roster this fall in all likelihood? OK.



Why are you questioning Muschamp and predicting his demise? He didn't inherit a very good situation from Meyer. Season before last he gave you a solid 11 win season. We have just as much reason if not more to question if Jones is the guy as you do to question whether Muschamp is the guy.

There are differences. Meyer did not leave the UF program in shambles like Dooley did to us. Not even close. Nor has UF had to endure the knee jerk firing and hiring that brought us to the cellar. UF never had to deal with a Lame Kiffin.

the Muschamp/Jones situations are polar opposites. If Jones inherited a winning program, went 7-6 with a bowl game win while finishing 3rd in the East, then went 11-2 while winning the East and THEN went 4-8? I would be questioning him being the guy.

Jones walked into absolutely none of that. He walked into a losing program with players who had some of the most lackluster coaching ever seen. The players had losing attitudes. I will say this if CBJ doesnt win at least 9-11 games by 2016, then it may be time to begin questioning. But you need to understand the definition of rebuilding, which is what Jones is being forced to do. Trying to compare Muschamp and Jones's situations is completely ridiculous. We have only had 2 winning seasons in 9 years. Expecting CBJ to completely turn the program around in 3 years is shortsighted.

 

[VFLinFL]

I do get the same feeling as my fellow VolNation family does about ESPN disliking us. However, I have noticed that we are on many topics on College Football Live unlike in the past. Butch Jones & Co. is putting us back in the spotlight like Coach Phillip Fulmer had us.
:td:
:fireworks:
:number1:

 

[BeattieFeathers]

There are differences. Meyer did not leave the UF program in shambles like Dooley did to us. Not even close. Nor has UF had to endure the knee jerk firing and hiring that brought us to the cellar. UF never had to deal with a Lame Kiffin.

the Muschamp/Jones situations are polar opposites. If Jones inherited a winning program, went 7-6 with a bowl game win while finishing 3rd in the East, then went 11-2 while winning the East and THEN went 4-8? I would be questioning him being the guy.

Jones walked into absolutely none of that. He walked into a losing program with players who had some of the most lackluster coaching ever seen. The players had losing attitudes. I will say this if CBJ doesnt win at least 9-11 games by 2016, then it may be time to begin questioning. But you need to understand the definition of rebuilding, which is what Jones is being forced to do. Trying to compare Muschamp and Jones's situations is completely ridiculous. We have only had 2 winning seasons in 9 years. Expecting CBJ to completely turn the program around in 3 years is shortsighted.

I can accept this. Very well stated. To act like we have great talent is ridiculous.

 

[99gator]

This is my problem with you generally. Subtle arrogance. You tend to lecture us about having expectations that are too high... then state equal or higher expectations for UF. I find absolutely NO reason that UT fans should accept anything less of the Vols than you expect of UF.

I hate UF and would love to see you have and keep a loser coach. However I don't expect it. You won't tolerate it. You'll demand change and it won't take two consecutive losing seasons for that to happen. Yet somehow you think we're being "unfair" if we don't accept subpar results.

The situations are different.

I don't know what's so hard to understand about this.

Tennessee should have championship expectations. Never have I said they shouldn't. But your program was burned to the ground. Florida's wasn't. Although, muschamp is gathering wood, gasoline, and matches.

 

[sjt18]

Those 6 or 7 guys are mostly from the offensive line. Though talented, these players were more suited to play in a conventional offense, not Butch's spread. In addition, our kicker is one of the six or seven.

So you have an OL loaded with future NFL players... and "talent" is an excuse for an O that only avg'd 24 ppg?

No skill players from last season will be drafted, unless Neal goes very late.

It looks like he will get drafted or get a shot as a UFA. Either way, he's the only UT skill player that graduated, right?

You have vastly over rated our talent and you refuse to accept what the national media has pointed out to you.

UT had sufficient talent to win 6 games last year. That was NOT a lofty expectation.

My goodness, we will be underdogs in eight games. Mercy!

Talk about "over stating".

Name them. UT will not be a underdog to USU or Vandy this year. They probably won't be an underdog to Mizzou by the time that game rolls around unless the season goes WAY bad for UT. They definitely won't be an underdog to UK, Chatt, or ASU.

 

[GrowVol]

There are differences. Meyer did not leave the UF program in shambles like Dooley did to us. Not even close. Nor has UF had to endure the knee jerk firing and hiring that brought us to the cellar. UF never had to deal with a Lame Kiffin.

the Muschamp/Jones situations are polar opposites. If Jones inherited a winning program, went 7-6 with a bowl game win while finishing 3rd in the East, then went 11-2 while winning the East and THEN went 4-8? I would be questioning him being the guy.

Jones walked into absolutely none of that. He walked into a losing program with players who had some of the most lackluster coaching ever seen. The players had losing attitudes. I will say this if CBJ doesnt win at least 9-11 games by 2016, then it may be time to begin questioning. But you need to understand the definition of rebuilding, which is what Jones is being forced to do. Trying to compare Muschamp and Jones's situations is completely ridiculous. We have only had 2 winning seasons in 9 years. Expecting CBJ to completely turn the program around in 3 years is shortsighted.

Expecting CBJ to completely turn the program around in 3 yrs .....and winning 6 games are 2 different things....right?
Excuses will be just that, i think he gets us to a bowl, but....?

 

[sjt18]

I would have normally ended that last post with a challenge about when you actually expect good coaching and good results. But you've pretty effectively established that you are fine with losing and never being more than a 2nd tier program. Your whole Fulmer defense supports that conclusion too.

We can keep going but there's probably no good reason. We just have different expectations. I want to see UT do what is necessary to win championships again. You'd be satisfied with far less. We'll never agree on whether or when to hold a coach accountable since we don't have the same standard in mind.

 

[sjt18]

I can accept this. Very well stated. To act like we have great talent is ridiculous.

Of course you can. Anything to justify an even lower bar.

 

[sjt18]

The situations are different.

I don't know what's so hard to understand about this.

Tennessee should have championship expectations. Never have I said they shouldn't it. But your program was burned to the ground. Florida's wasn't. Although, muschamp is gathering wood, gasoline, and matches.

No. You don't "say" it. You just suggest it... subtly... and constantly.

You here have suggested that 7-5 should get Muschamp fired. I'd actually agree. But out of the other side of your mouth you say that UT fans should be fine with Jones if he goes 5-7. That probably means a loss to a mid-major or Vandy/Mizzou. The mid-majors do not have UT's talent nor resources. Vandy/Mizzou are facing roster problems as bad if not worse than UT. Vandy has a new coach... and we all know you can't install a new system and win games <yes, sarcasm>. But its OK if Jones loses to them, right?

 

[BeattieFeathers]

So you have an OL loaded with future NFL players... and "talent" is an excuse for an O that only avg'd 24 ppg?

It looks like he will get drafted or get a shot as a UFA. Either way, he's the only UT skill player that graduated, right?

UT had sufficient talent to win 6 games last year. That was NOT a lofty expectation.


Talk about "over stating".

Name them. UT will not be a underdog to USU or Vandy this year. They probably won't be an underdog to Mizzou by the time that game rolls around unless the season goes WAY bad for UT. They definitely won't be an underdog to UK, Chatt, or ASU.

Yes talent is the reason. Again, the oline didn't fit and our wr corp was the worst in the league at the beginning. There was a scout at spring practice who said our skill players were the worst in the sec. But you choose to ignore.....

 

[BeattieFeathers]

No. You don't "say" it. You just suggest it... subtly... and constantly.

You here have suggested that 7-5 should get Muschamp fired. I'd actually agree. But out of the other side of your mouth you say that UT fans should be fine with Jones if he goes 5-7. That probably means a loss to a mid-major or Vandy/Mizzou. The mid-majors do not have UT's talent nor resources. Vandy/Mizzou are facing roster problems as bad if not worse than UT. But its OK if Jones loses to them, right?

It's not the same!! Read the article again. I agree with it.

 

[sjt18]

Yes talent is the reason. Again, the oline didn't fit and our wr corp was the worst in the league at the beginning. There was a scout at spring practice who said our skill players were the worst in the sec. But you choose to ignore.....

I haven't ignored anything. I actually gave them the leeway that it might have been a conscious decision to stick with their program even knowing they'd do better if they modified it.

But that didn't lose the Vandy game for UT.... in the 11th week of the season.

You just keep looking for reasons to set the bar lower. Maybe you just want to assure that it is set low enough that your Fulmer defenses appear to have an ounce of credibility. Really tough to say. What is NOT tough to see is that you are fine with losing... I'm not.

 

[sjt18]

It's not the same!! Read the article again. I agree with it.

I am not surprised by now when you accept anything that gives you another excuse. Give me that much credit... I get that already.

 

[sjt18]

Expecting CBJ to completely turn the program around in 3 yrs .....and winning 6 games are 2 different things....right?
Excuses will be just that, i think he gets us to a bowl, but....?

I think Jones gets to 6-8 wins this year. I'll be satisfied that he's moving the program in the right direction if he does. I think that will set UT up to challenge for the East in '15.

The only way I could see calling for his head is if he wins 4 or less games and looks uncompetitive in the process. I just don't think that will happen.

 

[ntxVOL]

I think Jones gets to 6-8 wins this year. I'll be satisfied that he's moving the program in the right direction if he does. I think that will set UT up to challenge for the East in '15.

The only way I could see calling for his head is if he wins 4 or less games and looks uncompetitive in the process. I just don't think that will happen.

This!

Not sure about challenging for the East in '15 but the 5-6 win days should be a thing of the past. We may struggle to win against the top tier teams in the conference for a while yet. CBJ just needs to show enough improvement to keep the talent pipeline flowing. Then, rather than fighting depth issues, it's just a matter of getting all the pieces together at the same time.

 

[BeattieFeathers]

I haven't ignored anything. I actually gave them the leeway that it might have been a conscious decision to stick with their program even knowing they'd do better if they modified it.

But that didn't lose the Vandy game for UT.... in the 11th week of the season.

You just keep looking for reasons to set the bar lower. Maybe you just want to assure that it is set low enough that your Fulmer defenses appear to have an ounce of credibility. Really tough to say. What is NOT tough to see is that you are fine with losing... I'm not.

What year were you born? I suspect you started following the vols in our glory days of the 90's . I don't accept or expect losing. I expect to be in atlanta three or four times every ten years, expect eight wins in down years and accept it as reality, particularly in a league that has only gotten tougher in the last few years. But we were dso far down, we are not unlike a team coming off probation. I'm willing to judge a guy on more than just wins or losses, which can be a product of scheduling.

 

[99gator]

No. You don't "say" it. You just suggest it... subtly... and constantly.

You here have suggested that 7-5 should get Muschamp fired. I'd actually agree. But out of the other side of your mouth you say that UT fans should be fine with Jones if he goes 5-7. That probably means a loss to a mid-major or Vandy/Mizzou. The mid-majors do not have UT's talent nor resources. Vandy/Mizzou are facing roster problems as bad if not worse than UT. But its OK if Jones loses to them, right?

You do remember I am the guy who said year 2 would be better than year 1 before last season right.

What I was trying to imply was that if Tennessee is 5-7, that the level of underachievement is small and there are circumstances that make it understandable....not necessarily acceptable.

You mention talent and the nfl. Check how many Tennessee defensive players have been drafted in the last few years. Not one db since Eric berry. It's pathetic. Tennessee should have more players drafted by accident.

Now for years, I have given an opinion on tennessee's talent level. I criticized Dooley's recruiting. Have I done that with jones? Have I knocked jones' recruits?

You want progress? Look at the South Carolina and Georgia games for the best football Tennessee has played in years. Look at special teams. Injuries hurt in November. But, there was obvious improvement and a level of competiveness not seen in years. I would take that as a sign.

We just have and continue to disagree on the current amount of talent on campus. I believe it wasn't there. I believe it's there now, it just isn't allowed to see pg-13 movies without an adult.

So, it's going to be a struggle again with a bunch of babies out there. But, I believe 2014 is better than 2013 and this whole thread will be moot point anyway.

But, if I am wrong, I would like to think people will take youth into account and have the vision to understand that there is actually talent out there, especially in places not seen in years.

 

[BeattieFeathers]

I haven't ignored anything. I actually gave them the leeway that it might have been a conscious decision to stick with their program even knowing they'd do better if they modified it.

But that didn't lose the Vandy game for UT.... in the 11th week of the season.

You just keep looking for reasons to set the bar lower. Maybe you just want to assure that it is set low enough that your Fulmer defenses appear to have an ounce of credibility. Really tough to say. What is NOT tough to see is that you are fine with losing... I'm not.

l

The vandy game was lost when north went down. You do understand that north beat Carolina by himself? One player made a huge difference, just like the wr for vandy made the difference. Vandy beat teams that were better than us lost season, so I'm not sure why your whining, calling it Butch's mulligan. We were down to a true freshman qb with a broken thumb. Not sure what you expected against a team that had beaten Uga and Florida.

 

[BeattieFeathers]

You do remember I am the guy who said year 2 would be better than year 1 before last season right.

What I was trying to imply was that if Tennessee is 5-7, that the level of underachievement is small and there are circumstances that make it understandable....not necessarily acceptable.

You mention talent and the nfl. Check how many Tennessee defensive players have been drafted in the last few years. Not one db since Eric berry. It's pathetic. Tennessee should have more players drafted by accident.

Now for years, I have given an opinion on tennessee's talent level. I criticized Dooley's recruiting. Have I done that with jones? Have I knocked jones' recruits?

You want progress? Look at the South Carolina and Georgia games for the best football Tennessee has played in years. Look at special teams. Injuries hurt in November. But, there was obvious improvement and a level of competiveness not seen in years. I would take that as a sign.

We just have and continue to disagree on the current amount of talent on campus. I believe it wasn't there. I believe it's there now, it just isn't allowed to see pg-13 movies without an adult.

So, it's going to be a struggle again with a bunch of babies out there. But, I believe 2014 is better than 2013 and this whole thread will be moot point anyway.

But, if I am wrong, I would like to think people will take youth into account and have the vision to understand that there is actually talent out there, especially in places not seen in years.

Wow.....this is a very fair post. Couldn't have said it better myself.

 

[GrowVol]

I think Jones gets to 6-8 wins this year. I'll be satisfied that he's moving the program in the right direction if he does. I think that will set UT up to challenge for the East in '15.

The only way I could see calling for his head is if he wins 4 or less games and looks uncompetitive in the process. I just don't think that will happen.

Thx. I believe the same thing. Its insane that some Vol fans would give CBJ 3-5 yrs to get us to a bowl game/compete, then hunt for any excuse/reason other than coaching.
My money is on us getting to a bowl, maybe 7-5 this season....but Im not in love with coach salespitch stuff enough to wait 4 years to be competitive.
Bowl or bust baby!