ETSU Watch Party

#126
#126
VolGee4 said:
The end for Tyndall was not good. But I will always argue that Tyndall was a good floor basketball coach. I am not sure how he would have recruited. Shady? Yea. But so are half the other coaches in high level college basketball.
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How is only be able to score 75 point twice in a whole season with J Rich and Punter being a good floor coach? I don't know why some of you have Tyndall blinders on. He had the slowest pace and worst results in a decade here. :thud:
 
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#127
#127
k-town_king said:
How is only be able to score 75 point twice in a whole season with J Rich and Punter being a good floor coach? I don't know why some of you have Tyndall blinders on. He had the slowest pace and worst results in a decade here. :thud:
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I am not getting in this discussion with you because you already have your mind made up. By the way, in another thread, you said that Tyndall had worse scoring outputs than CM. He did not. Tyndall had one game at 38 points while CM had two back to back in the 30's. He couldn't run a past paced game when his guards were playing the whole time.

I have watched basketball for a long time and use my eyes. He was left with nothing and had no inside help. He had to rely on Richardson at PG, and Punter wasn't nearly the scorer as he was his senior year. You just have your mind made up without considering anything else. No other reason to discuss it.
 
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#128
#128
cncchris33 said:
I'd be shocked if Tennessee ever hired anyone related to the Bruce Pearl tenure, especially a coach who received a show cause penalty for his previous time at Tennessee.

Forbes is mostly guilty by association, but he did lie to NCAA investigators and they won't forget that fact. Tennessee has done a lot to distance themselves from the Pearl scandal and eventual fallout. It would seem foolish to take a step back in the direction they've gone to great lengths to move on from. Forbes is a really good coach, but there are other good coaches out there that don't have the same stain on their resumé.
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True, because the NCAA will continue to punish people like Pearl & Forbes til the end of time but will let Calipari, UNC & Boeheim run Scott free forever!
 
#131
#131
VolGee4 said:
I am not getting in this discussion with you because you already have your mind made up. By the way, in another thread, you said that Tyndall had worse scoring outputs than CM. He did not. Tyndall had one game at 38 points while CM had two back to back in the 30's. He couldn't run a past paced game when his guards were playing the whole time.

I have watched basketball for a long time and use my eyes. He was left with nothing and had no inside help. He had to rely on Richardson at PG, and Punter wasn't nearly the scorer as he was his senior year. You just have your mind made up without considering anything else. No other reason to discuss it.
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Tyndall scored 75 twice in his season. Every single Zo team scored 75+ double digits.

Both picked last first year. Zo finished 2nd with a postseason bid. Tyndall .500.

Those teams they scored lowed points on were great defensive teams. UVA had 3 NBA from that single draft after the season. Gtwon had a top 3 pick and finished in the top 10.

With Punter and J Rich in ONE SEASON.
38 in loss to 19-15 Bama who got their coach fired
59 in loss to 13-19 Marquette
55 in loss to LSU
48 loss to UK
57 loss to Ole Miss
49 loss to UF
49 loss to South Carolina
9 other games with 65 or less.
Only UK was as good as the two teams Zo had low scoring games against.

7-11 SEC record

So you think Tyndall should get a break because Punter hadn't developed into a better score like he did the next year but don't want to acknowledge Zo had even less proven scoring his first year?

Punter was a JUCO AA known as a scorer. He averaged 10.3 with Tyndall. He averaged 20.3 in juco. He was more established than anyone Zo got. Plus J Rich. No one averaged over 3.3 points before Zo came. That just shows Zo is that much more a better than Tyndall.

No way you can make an argument based on facts, numbers, or results that Tyndall did better here or was more exciting.
 
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#133
#133
k-town_king said:
Tyndall scored 75 twice in his season. Every single Zo team scored 75+ double digits.

Both picked last first year. Zo finished 2nd with a postseason bid. Tyndall .500.

Those teams they scored lowed points on were great defensive teams. UVA had 3 NBA from that single draft after the season. Gtwon had a top 3 pick and finished in the top 10.

With Punter and J Rich in ONE SEASON.
38 in loss to 19-15 Bama who got their coach fired
59 in loss to 13-19 Marquette
55 in loss to LSU
48 loss to UK
57 loss to Ole Miss
49 loss to UF
49 loss to South Carolina
9 other games with 65 or less.
Only UK was as good as the two teams Zo had low scoring games against.

7-11 SEC record

So you think Tyndall should get a break because Punter hadn't developed into a better score like he did the next year but don't want to acknowledge Zo had even less proven scoring his first year?

Punter was a JUCO AA known as a scorer. He averaged 10.3 with Tyndall. He averaged 20.3 in juco. He was more established than anyone Zo got. Plus J Rich. No one averaged over 3.3 points before Zo came. That just shows Zo is that much more a better than Tyndall.

No way you can make an argument based on facts, numbers, or results that Tyndall did better here or was more exciting.
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I never said this, so thanks for contributing to me for things that I didn't say. In fact, I defended CM in year one. He had alot of untapped and raw talent. I am not going back 5 years to find it, but I said exactly that. The difference is that we didn't see Tyndall past year one, so we have no idea how his teams would develop. Also, I never said Tyndall was more exciting or did better. He wasn't, and he didn't. Just because he had a worse record, doesn't mean he is a worse floor coach. That is an asinine argument.

It was quite clear in year one though that CM couldn't offensively scheme against a zone, and his players had no clue where the weaknesses were. All you have to do is watch the College of Charleston game in year one. But I was willing to let him grow. The players got better, but they still struggled with zone defenses even in year 3. He lost games in year 3 that he shouldn't have. It is clear that CM is a good man, has become a very good recruiter, but his players' offensive production is simply not good.

Tyndall also drew up some very good end of game plays, and some were just not executed. Players miss shots- it happens. I just don't see how someone can say that CM is any better of floor coach than Donnie Tyndall, and there is absolutely no reason for me to support Tyndall. Just going off what I see. It would have been alot different for Tyndall if he had Stokes inside and McRae on the wing. I don't need points per game to tell me anything. You either maximize your talent or you don't.
 
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#134
#134
VolGee4 said:
I never said this, so thanks for contributing me for things that I didn't say. In fact, I defended CM in year one. He had alot of untapped and raw talent. I am not going back 5 years to find it, but I said exactly that. The difference is that we didn't see Tyndall past year one, so we have no idea how his teams would develop. Also, I never said Tyndall was more exciting. He wasn't.

It was quite clear in year one though that CM couldn't offensively scheme against a zone, and his players has no clue where the weaknesses were. All you have to do is watch the College of Charleston game in year one. But I was willing to let him grow. The players got better, but they still struggled with zone defenses even in year 3. He lost games in year 3 that he shouldn't have. It is clear that CM is a good man, has become a very good recruiter, but his players' offensive production is simply not good.

Tyndall also drew up some very good end of game plays, and some were just not executed. Players miss shots- it happens. I just don't see how someone can say that CM is any better of floor coach than Donnie Tyndall, and there is absolutely no reason for me to support Tyndall. Just going off what I see. I don't need points per game to tell me anything. You either maximize your talent or you don't.
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Ok we disagree.

But even just going off of first year Martin kills him.
Same expectations.
Same lack of returning scoring but talent on the team.

Coach A puts up 97 and almost beats a top ten Memphis team. Has some exciting high scoring games and some slow games. Beats some other good teams while finishing way beyond expectations and making the postseason. Super young team. No players that were heading to the NBA after the season or even the next season.

Coach B finishes 7-11 in conference. Scores only 75 twice. Has no exciting high scoring games at all the whole year. Has the slowest pace and lowest scoring average in 20 years at a time when college bball is improving its pace each year. Had a player go the NBA and become a major contributor as a rookie.

Coach A is obviously a better coach.
 
#135
#135
k-town_king said:
Ok we disagree.

But even just going off of first year Martin kills him.
Same expectations.
Same lack of returning scoring but talent on the team.

Coach A puts up 97 and almost beats a top ten Memphis team. Has some exciting high scoring games and some slow games. Beats some other good teams while finishing way beyond expectations and making the postseason. Super young team. No players that were heading to the NBA after the season or even the next season.

Coach B finishes 7-11 in conference. Scores only 75 twice. Has no exciting high scoring games at all the whole year. Has the slowest pace and lowest scoring average in 20 years at a time when college bball is improving its pace each year. Had a player go the NBA and become a major contributor as a rookie.

Coach A is obviously a better coach.
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You are trying to compare apples to apples, and you simply can't do that (but you will). Although he inherited inexperienced players, CM inherited a roster with six 4 star players and added a 5 star at the semester. Tyndall had a 4 star, a 5 star (Hubbs who missed his freshman year), and Josh Richardson. He also had to play two true freshmen inside along with Derek Reese.

If you want to try to compare those as similar, then I can't help you anymore.
 
#136
#136
OrangeAllDay said:
That's what Texas thought too before they hired Shaka. Results don't speak for themselves (when your trying to predict the future of someone's coaching career at another place). Someone bring something more tangible to the table than number of wins and getting in the tourney cause you won your own tournament. What was the make up of that 16-10 team? How many players in the rotation are now forbes players? What type of recruits he pulling in? Are they better than what the school was pulling in before? How can you tell how well his talent evaluation skills are in 2 years? Can you? Haven't seen anything on any of that. For all I know he's just winning with his predecessor's players. W/L record, over a time span of two years, says absolutely nothing on its own.
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Perhaps if you did a little research before posting you'd realise that Forbes is winning with his players not those of Murray Bartow. Forbes is a good coach, good recruiter and he'll get a bigger job sooner than later. While results at one place isn't an indicator of future success they do determine job offers. Forbes is already being discussed nationally as being on Jim Rome's show indicates, he's not just a local or regional story. Regardless of his past UT can, and has, done a lot worse than Steve Forbes. Do I think he'll coach the Vols? No, but if so I believe he'd be very successful in doing it.
 
#137
#137
IluvdoubleD's said:
Sorry I've never followed their team, didn't know it was a sensitive thing. All I can say is if Florida wins today a whole lot of folks brackets are busted.
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It's common sense, quit being douchey. One loss doesn't break a bracket, how ridiculous
 
#139
#139
Give me Forbes, Will Wade, or Kevin Keatts and I'd be happy. Man Coach Keatts plays some exciting basketball.
 
#146
#146
Volballfan said:
ETSU was 16-10 the year before Forbes was hired and only smelled the regular season or tourney championship twice in Murray Bartow's entire tenure. Forbes first season, they finished second in regular season and tourney winning 24 games. This season, his second, they won 27 games, finished tied for first in regular season, and won the tourney. Results speak for themselves.
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I agree he has done a great job at ETSU. Just dont think hes done enough to land a major P5 job yet.
 
#149
#149
therealitytheory said:
I wonder if Crean will step into the new opening in Berkeley (not that I wish success on either).
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I am sure he will be pursued by someone. NC State, LSU, Illinois, Cal, and Washington are all open. Gary Parrish said yesterday to watch Gregg Marshall at Washington. He said that he very well may turn them down, however, Marshall's wife is from Washington, and they vacation every year in the NW.
 
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