EuroTrash

#77
#77
OrangeTsar said:
So a company could require me to bow to Mecca and pray to Allah three times a day then too? An employee does not surrender their inalienable rights when stepping through the workplace door
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Yeah they do. Read your employee manual, I'd bet a dollar to a doughnut it states they have the right to search you, your belongings and even your vehicle while on the property.
 
#78
#78
n_huffhines said:
The only result with "Europe" in it was the author pointing out that Europe (and the US) already have high marginal tax rates but that Nordic countries do almost all their spending on the local level. No mention at all that they have better or more progressive tax policies or that we should have more progressive policy like them.

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...and she actually has specifically invoked European countries before.

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez: The rookie congresswoman challenging the Democratic establishment

Anderson Cooper: When people hear the word socialism, they think Soviet Union, Cuba, Venezuela. Is that what you have in mind?

Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez: Of course (LAUGH) not. What we have in mind— and what of my— and my policies most closely re— resemble what we see in the U.K., in Norway, in Finland, in Sweden.
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#79
#79
It doesn't really matter the vaccine mandate is already failing. Whether or not it's ruled in courts to be legal is irrelevant. People are not going to take the vaccine and there will be a reckoning against businesses and the gov. for this mandate.
 
#80
#80
05_never_again said:
So because she didn't specifically mention Europe, that means she doesn't want a more European-style tax policy?
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The context is that the premise of the book is countering the left's irrational love of Europe, and the author apparently drags them for not having very progressive tax policies. So I'm saying that I've never heard leftists express irrational love for the progressive nature of Europe's tax policy, and then you told me that AOC wants what you view as a European-style tax policy. Still looking for the irrational love of Europe, tho.
 
#81
#81
05_never_again said:
...and she actually has specifically invoked European countries before.

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez: The rookie congresswoman challenging the Democratic establishment
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I'm not surprised to find out she's mentioned countries in Europe before. I'm not surprised to see her acknowledge that her policies resemble some European countries...but I'm still looking for irrational love and her claiming they are more progressive with tax policy. My whole point is that this progressive tax policy is largely a straw man (and a weird argument to make since conservatives don't actually want progressive taxes, so Europe is doing it right then, right?).
 
#82
#82
n_huffhines said:
Yeah, and I'm sure they totally call it a Utopia when they say it, too. I'm not interested in listening to people that frame these conversations like this on either side. Way too much bias.

I've heard liberals call for higher and more progressive taxes, I just haven't heard anybody make the case that we should adopt European tax policies. I've literally never heard anybody say anything specific about taxes in Europe (like that they're more progressive, smart, fair, etc.), other than they're generally higher. I'm sure it's out there, but reading a book where this topic is one of the 4 cornerstones doesn't seem to fit the climate.
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Surely we can both agree the general sentiment of the left is that America as a whole should be more like Europe?
 
#83
#83
n_huffhines said:
The context is that the premise of the book is countering the left's irrational love of Europe, and the author apparently drags them for not having very progressive tax policies. So I'm saying that I've never heard leftists express irrational love for the progressive nature of Europe's tax policy, and then you told me that AOC wants what you view as a European-style tax policy. Still looking for the irrational love of Europe, tho.
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"Irrational love of Europe" is a hyperbolic phrase the author is probably using for affectation. I didn't use it myself.

The point is that there are US politicians that do advocate for European-style tax and social welfare policies, and pols like AOC and Bernie have invoked specific European countries as ones to look to.

Bernie Sanders' American Dream is in Denmark | CNN Politics
 
#85
#85
#86
#86
n_huffhines said:
The context is that the premise of the book is countering the left's irrational love of Europe, and the author apparently drags them for not having very progressive tax policies. So I'm saying that I've never heard leftists express irrational love for the progressive nature of Europe's tax policy, and then you told me that AOC wants what you view as a European-style tax policy. Still looking for the irrational love of Europe, tho.
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Is he dragging them or pointing out facts that run counter to the leftist narrative?
 
#89
#89
tnmarktx said:
I wonder if he supports their lower corporate tax rate?
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Hell no, which is why pols in some of these Scandinavian countries are quick to point out that they aren't down with everything someone like Bernie advocates for.

Bernie Sanders' American Dream is in Denmark | CNN Politics

“I would like to make one thing clear,” Danish Prime Minister Lars Lokke Rasmussen said recently in a speech at Harvard’s Kennedy School of Government. “Denmark is far from a socialist planned economy. Denmark is a market economy.”

But it is a market with many differences from the United States. All Danish citizens have access to child care, state-guaranteed medical and parental leave from work, free college tuition in which students receive a paycheck from the government during enrollment, free health care and a generous pension, all of which Sanders supports.

“Free” is actually the wrong word to describe these services. Danes pay some of the highest taxes in the world, including a 25% tax on all goods and services, a top marginal tax rate hovering near 60%. The top tax rate in the U.S., by comparison, is less than 40%.

But there are aspects to the Danish model that you would never see on Sanders’ policy platform. As a small country heavily reliant on trade, Denmark imposes minimal tariffs on foreign goods. Businesses here are only lightly regulated. The corporate tax rate is much lower than in the United States, which has one of the highest in the world. There’s not even a minimum wage in Denmark, although most workers are paid high salaries in large part due to the strength of labor unions. And in the past few years, Danish voters elected a right-of-center government, which has been instituting reforms that have put tighter restrictions on access to the long-held safety net.
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#90
#90
Vol8188 said:
Surely we can both agree the general sentiment of the left is that America as a whole should be more like Europe?
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I have met and am aware of many liberals who would like to be more like some European countries in some regards. I don't see that many with irrational love for Europe or people that think it's some Utopia. I also know people on the left who have never once fkn mentioned Europe, and we talk politics all the time.

Really, the only conversation where I see liberals consistently point to Europe is health care.
 
#94
#94
n_huffhines said:
I have met and am aware of many liberals who would like to be more like some European countries in some regards. I don't see that many with irrational love for Europe or people that think it's some Utopia. I also know people on the left who have never once fkn mentioned Europe, and we talk politics all the time.

Really, the only conversation where I see liberals consistently point to Europe is health care.
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Health care, free speech, guns, mass transit/trains, more acceptance of socialistic policies, less of a cultural desire for freedom in general, more taxes

All of those are key issues we should be able to agree on that members of the left have promoted as part of their European utopia narrative. Are there any of those you actually disagree with that the left promotes?

Edit: I’ll add that apart of this European utopian narrative is the idea that American Exceptionalism is a negative.
 
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#95
#95
n_huffhines said:
Well, the title of the book is EuroTrash, LOL.
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I think the title is more in regards to their poverty and racism (thus the comparison to white trash) Less about them have a non-progressive tax system. I can call a place trash without disagreeing with 100% of their policies. So no, I don’t think the author is “dragging them” (I don’t really use that phrase because I’m not a 13 year old girl on Twitter) on that topic.

Granted I have yet to read the book and could be wrong
 
#96
#96
Vol8188 said:
Health care, free speech, guns, mass transit/trains, more acceptance of socialistic policies, less of a cultural desire for freedom in general, more taxes

All of those are key issues we should be able to agree on that members of the left have promoted as part of their European utopia narrative. Are there any of those you actually disagree with that the left promotes?

Edit: I’ll add that apart of this European utopian narrative is the idea that American Exceptionalism is a negative.
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I can't agree when you use that word, but you are right, I have heard the UK's gun policies quite a bit. I forgot about that issue. I've never heard a free speech and Europe conversation.

"Utopia" has been used against me 1,000 times for my libertarian beliefs and I have never once even implied that libertarianism would solve all our problems.
 
#97
#97
n_huffhines said:
I can't agree when you use that word, but you are right, I have heard the UK's gun policies quite a bit. I forgot about that issue. I've never heard a free speech and Europe conversation.

"Utopia" has been used against me 1,000 times for my libertarian beliefs and I have never once even implied that libertarianism would solve all our problems.
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The free speech and Europe conversation is basically comparing how European laws do not protect “hate speech”. I think you’re clinging to the word utopia too much. The point is they believe Europe is better than America and these are a lot of the points they bring up to justify their claim.
 
#98
#98
OrangeTsar said:
So a company could require me to bow to Mecca and pray to Allah three times a day then too? An employee does not surrender their inalienable rights when stepping through the workplace door
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Mine does not allow firearms on company property. Is that an infringement on my 2A rights? Your constitutional rights are between you and the government. No one else.
 
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#99
#99
Vol8188 said:
The free speech and Europe conversation is basically comparing how European laws do not protect “hate speech”. I think you’re clinging to the word utopia too much. The point is they believe Europe is better than America and these are a lot of the points they bring up to justify their claim.
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But even that's too much. Just because they want some European-style policies (which I acknowledge is common) does not mean they think Europe is better than America. That's not something I hear them say. I think that's your inference.
 
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