EuroTrash

#101
#101
Vol8188 said:
You can be both partisan and honest. I’m unaware of a non partisan source. Matt Tiabbi and Bari Weiss are both left wing, yet both do fair and honest reporting. Maybe you should reconsider your premise
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I think we need to post more articles from Bari Weiss, Alex Berenson, and Glenn Greenwald on this forum. I agree they are all more left wing and have done fair reporting since they have been on Substack.
 
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#102
#102
I have very mixed feelings about Europe. It is the cradle of Western Civilization and gave us the blueprint of our society through Athenian Democracy, the Roman Republic, and English common law. It also gave us most of the cultural treasures of our civilization from the art of the Italian Masters, the plays of Shakespeare, and the music of Bach. Great novels and poetry. The earliest of our literature from Homer. The Renaissance and the enlightenment. The great British enlightenment philosophers like Adam Smith and David Hume.
But then, having produced the very pinnacle of Western Civilization, Europe basically became disillusioned and since WWI has basically need further and further mortgaging their rich inheritance in the service of aggressive secularism and moral relativism. Something about their failure to prevent the two greatest organized bloodletting’s of human history has broken the European psyche, to the impoverishment of us all. Throw in the two great cancers of the West (Marxism and French Postmodernism) and the disease became acute and lethal
 
#103
#103
n_huffhines said:
But even that's too much. Just because they want some European-style policies (which I acknowledge is common) does not mean they think Europe is better than America. That's not something I hear them say. I think that's your inference.
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It isn't a huge stretch to make than inference though, no? Especially when you're talking about elements from the far left/social justice left. Many of them, say that the United States is a racist, unjust, and unequal (as they define equal) place...and that these are all features of the country, not a bug. They also wax poetic about a lot of the politics of Europe. What are we supposed to conclude?

IMO, the reason why they don't come right out and say it (because you are right, they tend not to) is because their inconsistency would be so obvious. They are living in the US, presumably doing pretty well, and even though they claim Europe is "better" they don't live there themselves. Kind of like the "I'm moving to Canada is XYZ is elected" crowd that never actually moves to Canada.
 
#104
#104
n_huffhines said:
I have met and am aware of many liberals who would like to be more like some European countries in some regards. I don't see that many with irrational love for Europe or people that think it's some Utopia. I also know people on the left who have never once fkn mentioned Europe, and we talk politics all the time.

Really, the only conversation where I see liberals consistently point to Europe is health care.
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When you hear the left mock American exceptionalism, or state that American is not great or has never been great, what do you believe they’re doing this in comparison too?

I would argue you’re either comparing us to Europe or to utopia. Is there a third option I’m missing?
 
#105
#105
The problem with Europe is it's weak genetics. Through the countless wars on the continent plus it's colonial wars and mass migration to America most of what was left is weak bloodlines.
 
#106
#106
hog88 said:
The owners (yes not all) are citizens so they should be afforded the same constitutional protections as an individual.

Let me know the next time a business crosses our boarders and sets up shop illegally.

I don't see how your last paragraph has any bearing on the conversation. I make business decisions based on what I think is best for the business and those usually coincide with my personal interests.
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Corporations arent citizens. The people who run them may be, but the entity itself isn't. The people are still free to do what they want. The corporation entity is regulated beyond the citizens. The corporation entity does not have specific rights guarenteed by the constitution.

I doubt very much that the people at your business work for you directly. But rather they are employed by the separate entity Hog Inc. Even if you are the sole proprietor you are still a separate entity. Therefore your rights arent restricted. The corporation is restricted but it has no specific rights, at least in the reference of this conversation.
 
#107
#107
LouderVol said:
Corporations arent citizens. The people who run them may be, but the entity itself isn't. The people are still free to do what they want. The corporation entity is regulated beyond the citizens. The corporation entity does not have specific rights guarenteed by the constitution.

I doubt very much that the people at your business work for you directly. But rather they are employed by the separate entity Hog Inc. Even if you are the sole proprietor you are still a separate entity. Therefore your rights arent restricted. The corporation is restricted but it has no specific rights, at least in the reference of this conversation.
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Mostly correct but how do you explain the Citizens United ruling?
 
#108
#108
volfanhill said:
Mine does not allow firearms on company property. Is that an infringement on my 2A rights? Your constitutional rights are between you and the government. No one else.
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I see that as more of a property rights issue. The employer OWNS the building and as such can require you not to bring certain things on that property just as I could tell my son not to bring a live rattlesnake into his bedroom. But I agree that this area of law is not as cut and dried as I made it out to be. It does involve a balancing of opposing rights. Which is I guess why we need courts
 
#109
#109
Vol8188 said:
When you hear the left mock American exceptionalism, or state that American is not great or has never been great, what do you believe they’re doing this in comparison too?

I would argue you’re either comparing us to Europe or to utopia. Is there a third option I’m missing?
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I'd argue that the woke left is doing it in comparison to utopia. The more moderate left does it in comparison to Europe.

Although, to your point, the woke left never holds countries other than the United States to the standards that they hold the United States to.

Listening to them talk, you'd think that the United States is the only place on Earth where slavery or racism has ever existed, or the only country that has ever taken land that belonged to someone else. They know that human civilizations generally throughout history, not just the United States, has done those things. However, it doesn't advance their political narrative to mention that, so they just don't mention it. It's in their interest to paint the United States as this one-off, uniquely evil place.
 
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#110
#110
OrangeTsar said:
I see that as more of a property rights issue. The employer OWNS the building and as such can require you not to bring certain things on that property just as I could tell my son not to bring a live rattlesnake into his bedroom. But I agree that this area of law is not as cut and dried as I made it out to be. It does involve a balancing of opposing rights. Which is I guess why we need courts
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Don't really need courts for this. It's a simple matter, if you do not like the policies of an employer don't work for them.
 
#113
#113
LouderVol said:
Corporations arent citizens. The people who run them may be, but the entity itself isn't. The people are still free to do what they want. The corporation entity is regulated beyond the citizens. The corporation entity does not have specific rights guarenteed by the constitution.

I doubt very much that the people at your business work for you directly. But rather they are employed by the separate entity Hog Inc. Even if you are the sole proprietor you are still a separate entity. Therefore your rights arent restricted. The corporation is restricted but it has no specific rights, at least in the reference of this conversation.
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Why should a group of people when less rights than people in general
 
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#114
#114
Vol8188 said:
Your next president did a great podcast with the author of EuroTrash. I’ve yet to read the book, but plan on doing so soon. Brings up a lot of points I’ve made before about the left’s irrational love of Europe.

1. Europe is poorer than American

2. European healthcare has worse outcomes than America

3. Europe is more racist than America

4. European countries have less progressive taxes than American as measured by effective rates

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1. Similar wealth numbers some countries slightly higher some slightly lower.

2. I am not even sure how this would be judged, but they all have better access to healthcare under universal plans

3. How would this be anything but a biased statement of opinion.

4. Pretty impressive since they have better access to healthcare, retire younger and take more vacation time each year.


But yeah we've got it all working perfectly and there is nothing we can learn from anyone else.
 
#115
#115
DonjoVol said:
I think we need to post more articles from Bari Weiss, Alex Berenson, and Glenn Greenwald on this forum. I agree they are all more left wing and have done fair reporting since they have been on Substack.
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Yeah you know the world is a crazy place when I am agreeing with a fair bit of Andrew Sullivan's articles. The left has truly gone to hell in a handbasket. Greenwald reminds me a lot of my wifes former room mate. A gay Republican when my wife was a progressive atheist. He was an accountant with a methodical approach to things and very detailed. Weiss and Berenson too have some real insights.
 
#116
#116
hog88 said:
Don't really need courts for this. It's a simple matter, if you do not like the policies of an employer don't work for them.
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What if you already work for an employer under original terms of employment that were acceptable to you but the employer unilaterally changes them? Is that not breaking a contract (not in a legal sense I know but a moral sense)?
 
#117
#117
ClearwaterVol said:
1. Similar wealth numbers some countries slightly higher some slightly lower.

2. I am not even sure how this would be judged, but they all have better access to healthcare under universal plans

3. How would this be anything but a biased statement of opinion.

4. Pretty impressive since they have better access to healthcare, retire younger and take more vacation time each year.


But yeah we've got it all working perfectly and there is nothing we can learn from anyone else.
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1. Not similar at all. The UK, France, Germany those guys are all about as wealthy as Mississippi.

2. Idk where this access to care argument comes from but it’s false. We have less wait times, are more likely to receive treatment for chronic conditions, and are more likely to survive serious diseases such as cancer.

3. Surveys primarily.

4. Idk how those things are really even related. They tax their poor more (instead of the negative rates we have). They have a lower standard of living. But at least they’re not working?
 
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#118
#118
Gandalf said:
Yeah you know the world is a crazy place when I am agreeing with a fair bit of Andrew Sullivan's articles. The left has truly gone to hell in a handbasket. Greenwald reminds me a lot of my wifes former room mate. A gay Republican when my wife was a progressive atheist. He was an accountant with a methodical approach to things and very detailed. Weiss and Berenson too have some real insights.
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The amazing thing is that atheism can still produce defensible arguments based on objective truth. The ultimate eventual unraveling of atheist systems is that, in denying a source for an ultimate higher authority results in a necessity to rely on the agreement to a set of first principles by a group of humans. All such consensus eventually falters onto the shoals of human nature and the “winning” principles become those which can be imposed by the strongest clique. The great success of the west is largely due to a fairly coherent agreement to a set moral code which was made possible by the deep seated Judeo Christian worldview. We are losing that now to our great disadvantage
 
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#119
#119
ClearwaterVol said:
1. Similar wealth numbers some countries slightly higher some slightly lower.

2. I am not even sure how this would be judged, but they all have better access to healthcare under universal plans

3. How would this be anything but a biased statement of opinion.

4. Pretty impressive since they have better access to healthcare, retire younger and take more vacation time each year.


But yeah we've got it all working perfectly and there is nothing we can learn from anyone else.
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The best true measure of the standard of living in a country is in its toilet facilities ( I am being SERIOUS here). Go to a restroom any where else in the world (except Japan) and then go to a Buc-ees. Then you will know who has the superior way of life
 
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#120
#120
OrangeTsar said:
What if you already work for an employer under original terms of employment that were acceptable to you but the employer unilaterally changes them? Is that not breaking a contract (not in a legal sense I know but a moral sense)?
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We shouldn’t be taking moral breaches to court.
 
#123
#123
05_never_again said:
I'd argue that the woke left is doing it in comparison to utopia. The more moderate left does it in comparison to Europe.

Although, to your point, the woke left never holds countries other than the United States to the standards that they hold the United States to.

Listening to them talk, you'd think that the United States is the only place on Earth where slavery or racism has ever existed, or the only country that has ever taken land that belonged to someone else. They know that human civilizations generally throughout history, not just the United States, has done those things. However, it doesn't advance their political narrative to mention that, so they just don't mention it. It's in their interest to paint the United States as this one-off, uniquely evil place.
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There are posters on here that would never call the US a great country let alone the best in the world. But when you ask them which country is better they get fuzzy walk around answers 😂
 
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