Facts are facts - Kiffin is running off the talent

#126
#126
Yo Duckhook... Last time I checked it only takes 22 players to play this game. 23 counting a kicker. So best I can figure if your saying we have 29 4 and 5*'s we have room to run off another 6 slackers who can't cut it here!!!!

Go Kiff!!!
 
#127
#127
I am glad we have a staff that is not putting up with BS. We have a staff that is disciplining the guys, talking straight with them, keeping the off the field ncidences to nil, and putting some fire under their rears. You want to keepthe under playing underotivated troublemakers, then enjoy another 5 game winning season. I for one love the cleanhouse approach. Love it
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#128
#128
MDBJJC said:
I am glad we have a staff that is not putting up with BS. We have a staff that is disciplining the guys, talking straight with them, keeping the off the field ncidences to nil, and putting some fire under their rears. You want to keepthe under playing underotivated troublemakers, then enjoy another 5 game winning season. I for one love the cleanhouse approach. Love it
Posted via VolNation Mobile
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I agree. Get rid of the people that don't want to or can't help the team.

Logic: some people just can't understand it.
 
#129
#129
i dont care if we end up with only 24 players atleast we will know that they are the 24 players with the biggest heart and wanna play ball.and bleed orange. and thats all i care about.
 
#130
#130
Several people on this forum keep talking about Coleman's ego being a problem but it was apparent that he was being a realist and knew that he was not going to get a fair shake from CLK. Kiffen could have kept Coleman at UT without promising him the starting job imo. I have been a strong supporter of CLK but this time I think he has let his ego get in the way. History will tell but with two "head cases" like Crompton and Stevens and the likelyhood that at least one qb will be hurt during the year we may be in serious trouble at that position. Given the questions surrounding our OL this year and the lack of mobility of our qb's I think we may be in serious trouble. The only back-up will be Mike Rozier who has not touched a football in 4-5 years. I understand that CLK wanted to tell recruits that he has a senior qb I am worried about making it to recruiting season
 
#131
#131
56 VOL said:
Several people on this forum keep talking about Coleman's ego being a problem but it was apparent that he was being a realist and knew that he was not going to get a fair shake from CLK. Kiffen could have kept Coleman at UT without promising him the starting job imo. I have been a strong supporter of CLK but this time I think he has let his ego get in the way. History will tell but with two "head cases" like Crompton and Stevens and the likelyhood that at least one qb will be hurt during the year we may be in serious trouble at that position. Given the questions surrounding our OL this year and the lack of mobility of our qb's I think we may be in serious trouble. The only back-up will be Mike Rozier who has not touched a football in 4-5 years. I understand that CLK wanted to tell recruits that he has a senior qb I am worried about making it to recruiting season
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Again, I take it you're from Chattanooga.
 
#132
#132
Bulldogs30 said:
Yo Duckhook... Last time I checked it only takes 22 players to play this game. 23 counting a kicker. So best I can figure if your saying we have 29 4 and 5*'s we have room to run off another 6 slackers who can't cut it here!!!!

Go Kiff!!!
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I'd go even further. I'd rather play both ways with 11 who provide the right nucleus to build a championship team.

After 2008, I don't care much about 2009 W/L record. But I do care that our players show they have the heart of champions. If they get outplayed, okay.

In 2008, we were a 5-7 team who played without heart and seemed to have fun on the sidelines while getting our tailed kicked. I can't stand that at UT when our tradition is built on players who play beyond their potential.

In any case, there are more than 11 players on this squad who have that passion for the game. I'm confident Kiffin and Company are finding them.
 
#133
#133
utmba93 said:
After 2008, I don't care much about 2009 W/L record. But I do care that our players show they have the heart of champions. If they get outplayed, okay.

In 2008, we were a 5-7 team who played without heart and seemed to have fun on the sidelines while getting our tailed kicked. I can't stand that at UT when our tradition is built on players who play beyond their potential.

In any case, there are more than 11 players on this squad who have that passion for the game. I'm confident Kiffin and Company are finding them.
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Damn right!! If we get out-talented, that's understandable this year, but if we get out-worked or out-hustled, then I'll be supremely pissed.
 
#134
#134
strongtower said:
Sorry I don't. Here is how I see the situation. Fulmer was a pushover for years. It's no different then raising brats all your life and then all of the sudden you want to lay down discipline to those kids. Well most will cry and pout and run away and some will eventualy conform to the new rules.

Players are leaving because their gravy train is gone.

Coleman's=the next Brent Shaefer. Will fall to the way side due to his pride.
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I agree with you 100%, 5 star players dont mean sh*t if they arent winners. Sometimes you get too many cheifs and not enough indians, if 5 star players were the way to go then why dont the Yankees win every World Series?
 
#135
#135
DaKiffinator said:
I agree with you 100%, 5 star players dont mean sh*t if they arent winners. Sometimes you get too many cheifs and not enough indians, if 5 star players were the way to go then why dont the Yankees win every World Series?
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Because the Red Sox just swept them.............:)
 
#136
#136
Why keep players around that don't fit the system or have off the field issues I agree with kiffin one this one.
 
#137
#137
jrezel79 said:
Why keep players around that don't fit the system or have off the field issues I agree with kiffin one this one.
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Why not adapt your system to players talent until you get your players in place?

We should go undfeated this year since all of the players left fit our system.... I can't wait to see it... I just hope the players don't get tired as there will be around 20 or 30 left before the season starts...:)
 
#138
#138
By my count, we've had about 10 players quit/removed from the team since CLK took over....thats still better than last year when by the Wyoming game, the entire team had quit on Phil.
 
#139
#139
ShanMan said:
By my count, we've had about 10 players quit/removed from the team since CLK took over....thats still better than last year when by the Wyoming game, the entire team had quit on Phil.
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Nice!

By my my count...our 2-deep will in all likelyhood consist of eight 5 stars, seventeen 4 stars, sixteen 3 stars, two 2 stars, and one NR...

Not that stars from a recruiting service are that important but the assertion is that we won't have the talent to win but...IMO... there are several teams winning alot more than we have recently with alot less 'stars' than that
 
#140
#140
ShanMan said:
By my count, we've had about 10 players quit/removed from the team since CLK took over....thats still better than last year when by the Wyoming game, the entire team had quit on Phil.
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I have to give your props on that..Excellent point.:hi:
 
#141
#141
Duckhook said:
With the most recent losses, the Vols now have a grand total of 18 players currently on-campus who were 4-star or 5-star recruits. Of the 9 that have left so far, EIGHT of them fit this criteria, as well...say what you want, that is a serious loss of talent for a roster thin on it. 11 of the incoming recruits will help this, but will only bring the number to 29. Worse, of the 18 elite players on campus today, 9 are SRs and Eric Berry makes 10 who will be leaving after 2009, meaning the staff will have to have a banner year in the 2010 class to really make an improvement. Don't bother arguing that stars don't matter, because all of the best players are included in these 18 (Berry, Hardesty, Jones, McCoy, McClendon, Brown, Crompton, etc).

There are some elite players in spots, but they are surrounded by very average to below-avg talent around them. This would have been the value of the players who have now left in the coming seasons. Plus, the fact that Bama, LSU, Fla, and UGA all have over 40 already on campus, and will have around 60 come fall, tells you why UT can't compete right now.

The point is that there will be little to zero talent in the upperclasses during the 2010 and 2011 seasons. That doesn't bode well for turning things around in those years, considering all 4 of the teams listed above are on the schedule each of those years. If you're one of the ones praising LK for these moves today, don't be caught at the front of the mob wanting to run him off after 3 mediocre seasons.

Just the facts. It won't be pretty for the next few years.:hmm:
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Just the facts, not too sure your play the game on paper. Last time I saw one, they played between the goal lines on a Saturday. I really don't think you have given this much thought, (glancing at the 4 pages of thoughts), because you have made no mention of the coaching pro or neg. The players have responded as I figured they would. Some jump in this vim and vigor and some play it as ho hum. You see where the ho hummers are now don't you. On the outside looking in. And rightfully so. Don't expect everyone to see it the same way. And don't expect the coaching staff to change because you don't see it their way. I learned that a long time ago.
 
#142
#142
sjt18 said:
Yeah. You're right about Berry. He's better than the rest by a fairly wide margin.

I was thinking primarily about offensive players but cast the net too broadly.

IMO, Coker was athletically like Berry but without the intelligence, character, work ethic, etc that makes Berry exceptional.
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Coker wasn't nearly as tough as Berry. He got shaken up in almost every game. Fulmer at one point straight up told him he wasn't tough enough to play college football.
 
#143
#143
So I guess this guy would love to have 22 T. Owens on the team who dont abide by the rules or have a team first attitude. We pride ourselves on our football as much as our southern attitude on things, and I, for one, could care less is all we had was 2 and 3 star recruits as long as the boys played like they were a team. Teams win games not players. And out of the big 'stars' that have run off none have really proved themselves. SO what BJ left, he sounded like a whiney little girl, "It wasn't fair, Waa!" call the wha-bulance. what a puss. he was too short and to hesitate anyway, the reason he always looked good to some ppl is because he played against 2nd defense and crappy teams. dont blame the coach for the decisions of whiney players
 
#144
#144
Bottom line is the players that have either been weeded out or run off we are not going to miss other than not hearing their name called over the sound system at Neyland....Kiffin is weeding the garden....we are seeing him clean up the Philapotomus's mess and these guys contributed to that very mess....We are going to slowly see a level of talent come here that we may have NEVER seen before...might take a year or 2 but it will happen...

WE HAD ONE PLAYER DRAFTED THIS YEAR FOR CHRIST SAKES...>>>>>1 PLAYER.....what does that tell you...half these guys that walked around talking the talk couldnt back it up and LOST TO WYOMING....go watch videos of practice...I guarantee you there hasnt been practices ran like Kiffin and Co. are running them EVER in Knoxville...its like bootcamp weed out the weak...not only physically, but mentally....just remember most of our so called starters/leaders went 5-7 last year and were on the team the year before that went to the SECCG....so Kiffin is finding out really fast who and what he has to work with...those that dont want to be here...arent
 
#145
#145
cutnitclose said:
Why not adapt your system to players talent until you get your players in place?

We should go undfeated this year since all of the players left fit our system.... I can't wait to see it... I just hope the players don't get tired as there will be around 20 or 30 left before the season starts...:)
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It wasn't altogether the plays or even style of play. It was the level of intensity, effort, and dedication that most couldn't handle. That's a standard you don't compromise or "adapt... to players".
 
#146
#146
I've often wondered how many of the kids quit because they weren't willing to let go of their late night party habits... Kiffin's morning workouts weren't exactly conducive to staying up late to drink and smoke dope.
 
#147
#147
kptvol said:
Coker wasn't nearly as tough as Berry. He got shaken up in almost every game. Fulmer at one point straight up told him he wasn't tough enough to play college football.
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he's also nowhere near the athlete that Berry is.
 
#148
#148
i'll defer to the incoming oku, brown, janzen, teague, richardson and the like, as to where the talent is going.
 
#150
#150
Duckhook said:
With the most recent losses, the Vols now have a grand total of 18 players currently on-campus who were 4-star or 5-star recruits. Of the 9 that have left so far, EIGHT of them fit this criteria, as well...say what you want, that is a serious loss of talent for a roster thin on it. 11 of the incoming recruits will help this, but will only bring the number to 29. Worse, of the 18 elite players on campus today, 9 are SRs and Eric Berry makes 10 who will be leaving after 2009, meaning the staff will have to have a banner year in the 2010 class to really make an improvement. Don't bother arguing that stars don't matter, because all of the best players are included in these 18 (Berry, Hardesty, Jones, McCoy, McClendon, Brown, Crompton, etc).

There are some elite players in spots, but they are surrounded by very average to below-avg talent around them. This would have been the value of the players who have now left in the coming seasons. Plus, the fact that Bama, LSU, Fla, and UGA all have over 40 already on campus, and will have around 60 come fall, tells you why UT can't compete right now.

The point is that there will be little to zero talent in the upperclasses during the 2010 and 2011 seasons. That doesn't bode well for turning things around in those years, considering all 4 of the teams listed above are on the schedule each of those years. If you're one of the ones praising LK for these moves today, don't be caught at the front of the mob wanting to run him off after 3 mediocre seasons.

Just the facts. It won't be pretty for the next few years.:hmm:
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He's trimming the fat Duck. I'd be willing to bet that Josh "Giggles" Briscoe would have been the first one had he had another year left. Saban did the same thng at UA his first year.
 
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