Federal Death Penalty brought back to life

#76
#76
NorthDallas40 said:
Nope we’ll have to agree to disagree. And yes he was mocking Christianity again.

And no my “evidence” was from the actual written history of the sixth commandment in Hebrew and its misinterpreted English translation. Looks like he was successful in selling and transferring his argument though. Congrats?
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This is just Pharisee BS^

Again, just one teaching by Christ?...
 
#77
#77
NorthDallas40 said:
Here ya go @Septic @n_huffhines maybe you should educate yourself too

Judaism and Abortion
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Hey listen man, whatever you say - I'm only judging your inconsistency. Een in the "summation" you provided, there's seems to be some incongruence in the application:

This short essay is meant purely as an educational overview. Jewish law approaches each case according to its particular circumstances. In any actual case, it is vital that qualified rabbis and medical professionals be consulted. If you have undergone an abortion, we recommend that you also read this article.
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The question of abortion is perhaps one of the most sensitive and charged topics in the political sphere. As is often the case, Judaism’s view is quite nuanced and does not necessarily fit squarely into either side of the debate.
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Looks like the appeal you've made isn't really supporting your proposition, instead your Judaism backstop relies on an 'if this, then that' approach - which rationally follow that abortion may or may not be a sin; which is different than the absolute you are attempting to make it out to be.

Again, you implied that "lawful" killing is OK (but not when it comes to abortion).
 
#78
#78
n_huffhines said:
This is just Pharisee BS^

Again, just one teaching by Christ?...
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Nope it’s a statement of fact on the true interpretation of the statement that started this whole discussion. “Thou shalt not kill” is not in conflict with capital punishment and that lack of conflict does not give free reign on abortion. Jewish law indeed sanctioned capital punishment however the rarely exercised it and put many impediments in its way. And rightfully so. But that isn’t in conflict with “thou shalt not kill”.

The Death Penalty in Jewish Tradition | My Jewish Learning

I’m sure septic appreciates you letting him step away from this fiasco though.
 
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#79
#79
Septic said:
Hey listen man, whatever you say - I'm only judging your inconsistency. Een in the "summation" you provided, there's seems to be some incongruence in the application:





Looks like the appeal you've made isn't really supporting your proposition, instead your Judaism backstop relies on an 'if this, then that' approach - which rationally follow that abortion may or may not be a sin; which is different than the absolute you are attempting to make it out to be.

Again, you implied that "lawful" killing is OK (but not when it comes to abortion).
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Oh it supports it perfectly. And I KNEW you would nit pick on that exact statement! That’s why I posted the summary quote 😂

Here I’ll quote it again for you so you can make some more straw mans. 😂

In summation:
  • Under normal circumstances it is forbidden to take the life of an unborn child, and it may be akin to murder (depending on the stage of pregnancy and birth, see footnote11).
  • As long as the unborn remains a fetus, it does not have a status of personhood equal to its mother, and therefore may be sacrificed to save the life of the mother.
  • In any case where abortion may be necessary, it is of paramount importance to consult halachic and medical experts as soon as possible.
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Also you and huff are selling the absolutes here with “thou shall not kill” trying to show them in conflict with capital punishment and abortion.
 
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#81
#81
My guy, you said that "thou shalt not kill" refers to unlawful killings, like state ordained executions. Is abortion not a lawful, state ordained killing?

This is what cognitive dissonance looks like.
 
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#84
#84
MercyPercy said:
My guy, you said that "thou shalt not kill" refers to unlawful killings, like state ordained executions. Is abortion not a lawful, state ordained killing?

This is what cognitive dissonance looks like.
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The basis of the argument started with “thou shalt not kill” which is an interpretation from the original Hebrew and is routinely taken out of context just as septic did here. He fired the shot based on the sixth commandment claiming capital punishment was in conflict with the sixth commandment. It clearly is not and capital punishment was present in Jewish law. Then he deflected to abortion since he got handed his ass on that argument. Septic deflected to abortion saying it’s ok since “Thou shalt not kill” doesn’t conflict with it. I then pointed out that Jewish law doesn’t sanction indiscriminate abortion, it is largely sanctioned only for cases in the mothers health. That’s a stance I agree with. I haven’t dealt in any absolutes here. That was all on septic. See post 83 above.
 
#87
#87
NorthDallas40 said:
The basis of the argument started with “thou shalt not kill” which is an interpretation from the original Hebrew and is routinely taken out of context just as septic did here. He fired the shot based on the sixth commandment claiming capital punishment was in conflict with the sixth commandment. It clearly is not and capital punishment was present in Jewish law. Then he deflected to abortion since he got handed his ass on that argument. Septic deflected to abortion saying it’s ok since “Thou shalt not kill” doesn’t conflict with it. I then pointed out that Jewish law doesn’t sanction indiscriminate abortion, it is largely sanctioned only for cases in the mothers health. That’s a stance I agree with. I haven’t dealt in any absolutes here. That was all on septic. See post 83 above.
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LOL at all your chest thumping.



“You shall not kill.” (Exodus 20:13)

Again, this Command offers no asterisk, the word "kill" is not followed with the term "unless" - which you keep implying exists. If it does, surely this is man's justification of stacking bodies without having to worry about ramifications.

It's intellectually dishonest to try to make the case that some lawful killing is OK, while another isn't - when the basis of your argument is that "lawful" killing is acceptable to your god.
 
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#91
#91
Septic said:
LOL at all your chest thumping.



“You shall not kill.” (Exodus 20:13)

Again, this Command offers no asterisk, the word "kill" is not followed with the term "unless" - which you keep implying exists. If it does, surely this is man's justification of stacking bodies without having to worry about ramifications.

It's intellectually dishonest to try to make the case that some lawful killing is OK, while another isn't - when the basis of your argument is that "lawful" killing is acceptable to your god.
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To be fair, I think a more accurate translation is "do not murder" (Why all the texts give the absolute "do not kill" eludes me) but the point still stands that murder is a socially constructed term to mean the killing was not legal, unlike in a situation of self defense, where it is. Abortion, being legal, would not fall into the murder category based on his own reasoning. Diving any deeper into this rabbit hole only further reveals the inconsistency of his interpretation.
 
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#92
#92
Septic said:
LOL at all your chest thumping.



“You shall not kill.” (Exodus 20:13)

Again, this Command offers no asterisk, the word "kill" is not followed with the term "unless" - which you keep implying exists. If it does, surely this is man's justification of stacking bodies without having to worry about ramifications.

It's intellectually dishonest to try to make the case that some lawful killing is OK, while another isn't - when the basis of your argument is that "lawful" killing is acceptable to your god.
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You’re still referencing the 10 Commandments with that passage and your assertion has been shown to be patently false. The rest by you is just butt hurt bloviating.

Thou shalt not kill - Wikipedia
 
#94
#94
Septic said:
LOL at all your chest thumping.



“You shall not kill.” (Exodus 20:13)

Again, this Command offers no asterisk, the word "kill" is not followed with the term "unless" - which you keep implying exists. If it does, surely this is man's justification of stacking bodies without having to worry about ramifications.

It's intellectually dishonest to try to make the case that some lawful killing is OK, while another isn't - when the basis of your argument is that "lawful" killing is acceptable to your god.
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Ooooh septic? From your own link ... 😂

YOU SHALL NOT KILL

Biblical scholars hasten to point out the Scriptural language of the Fifth Commandment is very precise.

Murder is the correct translation, i.e. the unlawful killing of a member of the community. The commandment does not cover capital punishment, killing in a war, or the killing of animals for food; which is not to say the Old Testament is unconcerned with the ethical problems posed by these things. (The Oxford Bible Commentary, p. 82)​
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Well I was apparently wrong on one thing. I thought it was the sixth commandment this article refers to it as the fifth commandment 🤪
 
#96
#96
Septic said:
I can live with your assessment of me, this is fun.
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I’m having a good time. Also between all of our mudslinging there’s actually some decent presentation of context I’d submit. The statement you brought up is a common one and we’ve debated it before on this forum. I’ve just tried to show within its intended context it is not presented as an absolute.
 
#97
#97
MercyPercy said:
To be fair, I think a more accurate translation is "do not murder" (Why all the texts give the absolute "do not kill" eludes me) but the point still stands that murder is a socially constructed term to mean the killing was not legal, unlike in a situation of self defense, where it is. Abortion, being legal, would not fall into the murder category based on his own reasoning. Diving any deeper into this rabbit hole only further reveals the inconsistency of his interpretation.
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It's fascinating and ironically representative of religion (and politics) as a whole that people will gravitate towards and seek out interpretations that most closely fit with their personal or internal narrative; working backwards into the rationalization. Like you said, cognitive dissonance.
 
#99
#99
MercyPercy said:
To be fair, I think a more accurate translation is "do not murder" (Why all the texts give the absolute "do not kill" eludes me) but the point still stands that murder is a socially constructed term to mean the killing was not legal, unlike in a situation of self defense, where it is. Abortion, being legal, would not fall into the murder category based on his own reasoning. Diving any deeper into this rabbit hole only further reveals the inconsistency of his interpretation.
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So that is a very debatable point especially within the context of the ancient law being thrown around here. I provided a link that gave the context for a valid reason for abortion, generally for the health of the mother. And I’d submit you’re extrapolating the case to the general point of unrestricted abortion. You’re dealing in absolutes here also Percy. And it reads to me like you’re rationalizing unrestricted abortion. My own reasoning and my statements made in this thread do not support your assertion on them.
 
#100
#100
Also we’ve already got at least one abortion thread going? The point of this thread was capital punishment? 🤷‍♂️
 
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