File under: What are they thinking?

#101
#101
lawgator1 said:
Irrelevant.

If the middle class perceives that the real dollar value of their salaries is plumetting, that the tax burden on them to bail out those who borrowed when they shouldn't, and who traded when they shouldn't, is growing ever higher ... and then they see that the investment bankers made record profits and bonuses, its just not going to go over well.
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You are clearly no longer confident in your stance and are trying to pass it off as the stance of others. You just said you were concerned about the disparity. Pick a position and stick with it, Mr. Undecided.
 
#103
#103
droski said:
and they are going to take it out on whom exactly? edit: and to assume they will notice and give a crap in big enough numbers for anyone to give a crap is a big assumption.
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I think in 2010 mid-terms you will see quite a bit of mention of it. From both sides of the aisle.


kptvol said:
You are clearly no longer confident in your stance and are trying to pass it off as the stance of others. You just said you were concerned about the disparity. Pick a position and stick with it, Mr. Undecided.
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No, you just do not appreciate the complexity of the issue or my "stance." To sum it up:

Yes, I am personally put off by an economic system that would have three things going on at once: 1) A middle and lower class that is truly moving backwards at an alarming rate while a portion of the very top of the upper class is doing better than it ever has, and that portion can be identified as people who are PURELY a transaction cost to the consumer and to business; 2) I am not naive. In the world of high finance and banking, GS is doing what companies do, which is to pay what the market says it has to pay to keep the talent that makes the proft; 3) the situation for the overall economy was at a point within recent memory where there was a real fear of a collapse of the banking system, including the investment banks, such that the government stepped in and took unprecedented action to save it.

Its not a simple thing. And neither are my thoughts on it. But if you want me to bottom line it, I suppose I'd put it this way: Those in position to issue and to get the bonuses we are discussing have no sense of how others will react. Many of you make a compelling argument that they don't and shouldn't care. I think that's a mistake.
 
#105
#105
lawgator1 said:
Irrelevant.

If the middle class perceives that the real dollar value of their salaries is plumetting, that the tax burden on them to bail out those who borrowed when they shouldn't, and who traded when they shouldn't, is growing ever higher ... and then they see that the investment bankers made record profits and bonuses, its just not going to go over well.
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how much of that precipitous slide are they going to blame on the borrowing machine that this admin has been and will always be? This crowd makes Bush look like Scrooge.

Anyone ascribing the value of their dollars to Goldman paying bonuses needs to be culled from the gene pool. I know they are a fictional piece of your knee jerk, whiny socialist argument, but any real person in that boat is an idiot or un-American.

Further, why did Quattrone not ruin the chances of the sitting president as he raked in $50 million bonuses in the 90s? Why did Jack Welch not cause huge problems with his enormous pay and benefits packages. Hint: people who would be offended have very short term worldview. The latest crisis will often be reflected in their voting patterns. Hence, this is just another of your red herrings to advocate destroying our capitalist system.
 
#107
#107
droski said:
the dems are going to lose major seats in 2010. mark my word.
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it won't matter since the ones who need to go will still keep their jobs. Plus there's still plenty of damage left to be done before the next election.
 
#108
#108
BigPapaVol said:
how much of that precipitous slide are they going to blame on the borrowing machine that this admin has been and will always be? This crowd makes Bush look like Scrooge.

Anyone ascribing the value of their dollars to Goldman paying bonuses needs to be culled from the gene pool. I know they are a fictional piece of your knee jerk, whiny socialist argument, but any real person in that boat is an idiot or un-American.

Further, why did Quattrone not ruin the chances of the sitting president as he raked in $50 million bonuses in the 90s? Why did Jack Welch not cause huge problems with his enormous pay and benefits packages. Hint: people who would be offended have very short term worldview. The latest crisis will often be reflected in their voting patterns. Hence, this is just another of your red herrings to advocate destroying our capitalist system.
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LG=

alancolmes.jpg
 
#109
#109
lawgator1 said:
Those in position to issue and to get the bonuses we are discussing have no sense of how others will react. Many of you make a compelling argument that they don't and shouldn't care. I think that's a mistake.
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Why? What are the negative consequences?
 
#110
#110
utvolpj said:
it won't matter since the ones who need to go will still keep their jobs. Plus there's still plenty of damage left to be done before the next election.
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I think if healthcare "reform" can be fended off, the damage done by 4 straight years of Pelosi and Reid running Congress will be mitigated to some small degree.
 
#111
#111
droski said:
the dems are going to lose major seats in 2010. mark my word.
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You might be right. But these bonuses are probably in the end going to be an issue that helps the Dems, not hurt them.


BigPapaVol said:
how much of that precipitous slide are they going to blame on the borrowing machine that this admin has been and will always be? This crowd makes Bush look like Scrooge.
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The argument that its the fault of the middle and lower class people who tried to get in on the feeding frenzy is not getting traction with the middle and lower class folks.
 
#112
#112
lawgator1 said:
The argument that its the fault of the middle and lower class people who tried to get in on the feeding frenzy is not getting traction with the middle and lower class folks.
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the argument that the continued piling on of unproductive debt is going to murder the value of everyone's dollars will gain traction and is going to be played over and over and over as inflation soars over the next few years.

By the way, save your ridiculous Joe Sixpack argument for someone who buys them or believes you to be representative of Joe's views. I don't.
 
#113
#113
lawgator1 said:
The argument that its the fault of the middle and lower class people who tried to get in on the feeding frenzy is not getting traction with the middle and lower class folks.
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especially the ones that think Keith Olberman is an honest broker.
 
#114
#114
lawgator1 said:
You might be right. But these bonuses are probably in the end going to be an issue that helps the Dems, not hurt them.
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despite the fact that obama's economic advisors worked for goldman?

there is no chance in hell the average american will remember this a year from now or care and even less than a chance that a democrat would be stupid enough to make a big deal about it considering obama had advisors who were major shareholders of goldman and made millions in the last 3 months.
 
#115
#115
lawgator1 said:
Those in position to issue and to get the bonuses we are discussing have no sense of how others will react.
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Odd that these industry leaders are completely clueless as to public reaction to their bonuses yet you have your finger on the pulse of America...
 
#118
#118
T-TownVol said:
I am sure LG's calendar is FULL of pro-bono work.
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you don't understand. it's ok for lawyers to make money, just not investment bankers. because we all know that the common man gets a much greater benefit from the ambulance chasing crowd.
 
#119
#119
volinbham said:
Odd that these industry leaders are completely clueless as to public reaction to their bonuses yet you have your finger on the pulse of America...
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wonder if LG has even remotely considered how news of this nature impacts the broader economy and the localized economies where GS has offices.
 
#120
#120
BigPapaVol said:
By the way, save your ridiculous Joe Sixpack argument for someone who buys them or believes you to be representative of Joe's views. I don't.
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yes he doesnt' believe this argument of course, but it will lead to the downfall of the republican party because joe sixpack, who doesn't vote, is really pissed (despite zero evidence to the contrary).
 
#121
#121
droski said:
you don't understand. it's ok for lawyers to make money, just not investment bankers. because we all know that the common man gets a much greater benefit from the ambulance chasing crowd.
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and law firms NEVER pay the partners ANY bonuses
 
#122
#122
BigPapaVol said:
wonder if LG has even remotely considered how news of this nature impacts the broader economy and the localized economies where GS has offices.
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I saw that yesterday, when this broke, the stock lost just over 4 % of its value. Not sure if that means anything given the 200 point drop in the Dow on suspicion of a generalized correction. Now, if you are asking me whether boob jobs and sales of BMWs and Mercedes are up in the areas where these executives live, I'll guess you might be right.
 
#123
#123
lawgator1 said:
I saw that yesterday, when this broke, the stock lost just over 4 % of its value. Not sure if that means anything given the 200 point drop in the Dow on suspicion of a generalized correction. Now, if you are asking me whether boob jobs and sales of BMWs and Mercedes are up in the areas where these executives live, I'll guess you might be right.
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private money being spent in the private economy is always a good thing.
 
#124
#124
lawgator1 said:
I saw that yesterday, when this broke, the stock lost just over 4 % of its value. Not sure if that means anything given the 200 point drop in the Dow on suspicion of a generalized correction. Now, if you are asking me whether boob jobs and sales of BMWs and Mercedes are up in the areas where these executives live, I'll guess you might be right.
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the fiancial index was down 4.7% yesterday. this move by goldman is unquestionably a huge positive for hte stock.
 
#125
#125
droski said:
the fiancial index was down 4.7% yesterday. this move by goldman is unquestionably a huge positive for hte stock.
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I don't know how one would separate out the effects of this particular news versus anything else, but what you say makes sense.
 
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