First They Came for the Confederate Statues, Then they came for the...

#51
#51
People are angry because they think the statues are coming down for bad reasons. I disagree that they're bad reasons, but setting that aside, the statues were PUT UP for bad reasons. I'd love to see the same outrage toward the people who built them.
 
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#54
#54
NashVol11 said:
I answered all of these questions in the post you quoted but apparently didn't read. The statues were built to be a public display of black inferiority, meant to intimidate black people and show former Confederates that their power wasn't threatened. The more the government sends that message, the more you're telling everyone in those areas that you're fine with all this "honor the Confederacy" **** and that you don't really care whether black people feel welcome in that place.
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This is pretty much the same message that BLM is making about Jefferson. You buy it?

I'd have to examine every Confederate statue but I'm skeptical that every single one was built specifically to demonstrate black inferiority.

The are removing a stain glassed panel in a Federal chapel because it has REL in it. Throughout the chapel are all sorts of figures depicted - do you really believe the intent of adding that panel was to send a message to black people?

We have Confederate grave sites where people are demanding statues be removed - were those cemeteries created to send a message to black people?

It's funny how you mock any suggestion that this tear down the symbols of oppression sends any larger message about not offending people at any cost yet post the above over the top suggestion about the negative power of leaving them up.

Honestly it ain't gonna make a hill of beans difference if they stay or go.

However, we've already seen that once the Confederates go plenty of other targets are waiting in the wings. Including that bastard Francis Scott Key
 
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#55
#55
NashVol11 said:
People are angry because they think the statues are coming down for bad reasons. I disagree that they're bad reasons, but setting that aside, the statues were PUT UP for bad reasons. I'd love to see the same outrage toward the people who built them.
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Some were put up for bad reasons.
 
#56
#56
NashVol11 said:
I answered all of these questions in the post you quoted but apparently didn't read. The statues were built to be a public display of black inferiority, meant to intimidate black people and show former Confederates that their power wasn't threatened. The more the government sends that message, the more you're telling everyone in those areas that you're fine with all this "honor the Confederacy" **** and that you don't really care whether black people feel welcome in that place.
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I'm willing to bet half of the city of Memphis had no idea any of these statues even existed until all this "let's tear everything down" movement started
 
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#57
#57
I also don't agree that every single statue was put up to intimidate. Maybe some were but you'd have to research every different scenario and no one has time to do that.
 
#58
#58
NashVol11 said:
If you think we need giant statues to remember something, it's pretty hard to call yourself "the most reasonable."

If I said we needed a statue of Osama bin Laden in order to remember 9/11, how do you think that would go over?
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You are absolutely right. Mt Rushmore was a desecration of a beautiful granite mountain. Blow it up.
 
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#59
#59
theFallGuy said:
I'm willing to bet half of the city of Memphis had no idea any of these statues even existed until all this "let's tear everything down" movement started
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I'd say more like 90%.

We had a Lee statue here in Orlando at Lake Eola. I had zero idea that even existed.
 
#60
#60
theFallGuy said:
I also don't agree that every single statue was put up to intimidate. Maybe some were but you'd have to research every different scenario and no one has time to do that.
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You forgot the blue font on the part where... well I'll help you out.

theFallGuy said:
I also don't agree that every single statue was put up to intimidate. Maybe some were but you'd have to research every different scenario and no one has time to do that.
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#61
#61
theFallGuy said:
I also don't agree that every single statue was put up to intimidate. Maybe some were but you'd have to research every different scenario and no one has time to do that.
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It's not a maybe; the majority of them absolutely were.

What do you suggest the result is, then? If most were built to intimidate black people and a few weren't, we should just keep them all? Haha
 
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#63
#63
theFallGuy said:
I'm willing to bet half of the city of Memphis had no idea any of these statues even existed until all this "let's tear everything down" movement started
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That doesn't change anything. These statues aren't doing anything positive; even if 5% of the ~8 million black people in the South are bothered by them, that's 400,000 people and way more harm than good.
 
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#66
#66
NashVol11 said:
"Oh noes, maybe this will make people stop overrating Columbus and start noticing his actual flaws! It's a slippery slope where people become more knowledgeable about history! How scary!"
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Where would you be without him?
 
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#67
#67
volinbham said:
It's funny how you mock any suggestion that this tear down the symbols of oppression sends any larger message about not offending people at any cost yet post the above over the top suggestion about the negative power of leaving them up.
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Were Germans "sending a message about not offending people at any cost" when they removed Nazi statues? Does anyone give a crap about that message? Was it "over the top" of them to decide they wanted to look at Nazis with shame rather than putting them on a pedestal?

They fought and died for their cause, but chose a s***ty cause. When you do that, you risk shame. I'm sure there are individuals in Germany who honor the Nazis, and talk about how they didn't really support the Holocaust, or had no choice but to fight, or whatever...but as a larger society, there was no way in hell that Germany was going to endorse or idolize those people, and neither should we.
 
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#68
#68
theFallGuy said:
I'm willing to bet half of the city of Memphis had no idea any of these statues even existed until all this "let's tear everything down" movement started
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There's a bust of AP Stewart in front of our courthouse. I bet if you asked 100 people two months ago if they knew about it, knew where it was, or knew who AP Stewart was you'd get a lot of blank stares. So to me that sort of indifference speaks to the rather ineffectiveness of these monuments to the promotion of white supremacy. The NAACP swears it promotes racism and hatred, while the overwhelming majority of white people don't know where it is or who Stewart was.
 
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#70
#70
tumscalcium said:
They weren't built solely for that. You didn't care about any statue before a couple months ago.
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Tums being tums......

It's more about societal consciousness and the small representative role these statues represent. Everyone was aware of this long before 2 months ago.
 
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#71
#71
LouderVol said:
We do have a big freaking monument to 9/11.

The issue is you have American's who identify with those statues. Not from any slave holding stand point. 95% of southerners never owned slaves. Its a symbol of their history, they can look at it and say that is the man your great great whatever served with. Or if they were a good general from their state they can look and say "this was a good general from our state". I would say for the same 95% of southerners these statues have nothing to do with the general personally or slaves.

also feeling free to tear down old monuments opens up some real interesting doors to any historic building/monument/marking/whatever that is otherwise protected. The north had slaves too, plenty of things on the chopping block outside of the south if we want to start pointing fingers.
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Good points. Slavery took many forms - some apparently mostly forgotten. Seems like indentured servitude and transportation of "criminals" have been lost in the racial shuffle.
 
#72
#72
NashVol11 said:
Were Germans "sending a message about not offending people at any cost" when they removed Nazi statues? Does anyone give a crap about that message? Was it "over the top" of them to decide they wanted to look at Nazis with shame rather than putting them on a pedestal?

They fought and died for their cause, but chose a s***ty cause. When you do that, you risk shame. I'm sure there are individuals in Germany who honor the Nazis, and talk about how they didn't really support the Holocaust, or had no choice but to fight, or whatever...but as a larger society, there was no way in hell that Germany was going to endorse or idolize those people, and neither should we.
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You do realize that not all Germans were Nazi's right? Kind of like not all confederate soldiers were slave owners..
 
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#73
#73
NashVol11 said:
Were Germans "sending a message about not offending people at any cost" when they removed Nazi statues? Does anyone give a crap about that message? Was it "over the top" of them to decide they wanted to look at Nazis with shame rather than putting them on a pedestal?

They fought and died for their cause, but chose a s***ty cause. When you do that, you risk shame. I'm sure there are individuals in Germany who honor the Nazis, and talk about how they didn't really support the Holocaust, or had no choice but to fight, or whatever...but as a larger society, there was no way in hell that Germany was going to endorse or idolize those people, and neither should we.
Click to expand...

Case Closed!
 
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