First They Came for the Confederate Statues, Then they came for the...

[tumscalcium]

Tums being tums......

It's more about societal consciousness and the small representative role these statues represent. Everyone was aware of this long before 2 months ago.

Damn right. Pointing out facts is what I do. He'd be better off in life if he didn't get pissed every time he looked in the mirror.

 

[luthervol]

Damn right. Pointing out facts is what I do. He'd be better off in life if he didn't get pissed every time he looked in the mirror.

One of your more stupid comments, and that's saying a mouth full.

I don't know you or Nash but based on what can be gleaned from a person's post history, Nash would run circles around you in every way imaginable.

 

[tumscalcium]

One of your more stupid comments, and that's saying a mouth full.

I don't know you or Nash but based on what can be gleaned from a person's post history, Nash would run circles around you in every way imaginable.

He never has, never will. Like you, he's tried. I have facts and reality on my side. Thats the liberal Achilles heel.

 

[luthervol]

He never has, never will. Like you, he's tried. I have facts and reality on my side. Thats the liberal Achilles heel.

I picture you, '79, and '69 as a "special" troop with '72 as the good hearted yet frustrated troop leader.

 

[tumscalcium]

I picture you, '79, and '69 as a "special" troop with '72 as the good hearted yet frustrated troop leader.

Cool

 

[luthervol]

Cool

You play your role perfectly.

 

[armchair]

Nobody will mess with statues of the Founding Fathers. But Confederate monuments are a different story. I read that 32 Confederate monuments have been installed in the last 17 years! There are more than 700 in 31 states. As a general rule, the losing side should not build statues, especially a side associated with slavery and white supremacy--but it's also been said, and there is some truth to it, that the North won the war but the South won the peace, meaning it aggressively pushed this idea of the Lost Cause--the noble underdogs fighting against insurmountable odds. It was fraudulent but it worked to some degree, I think partly owing to the South's military success for the first three years of the war. But in the end we should all be thankful that the South lost.

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

Nobody will mess with statues of the Founding Fathers. But Confederate monuments are a different story. I read that 32 Confederate monuments have been installed in the last 17 years! There are more than 700 in 31 states. As a general rule, the losing side should not build statues, especially a side associated with slavery and white supremacy--but it's also been said, and there is some truth to it, that the North won the war but the South won the peace, meaning it aggressively pushed this idea of the Lost Cause--the noble underdogs fighting against insurmountable odds. It was fraudulent but it worked to some degree, I think partly owing to the South's military success for the first three years of the war. But in the end we should all be thankful that the South lost.

What about the other 23 states?

 

[UT_Dutchman]

It's funny, I have this same question for people angrily defending Confederate statues. These statues were largely put up (quickly, and out of crappy materials) to intimidate black people at the peak of Jim Crow and the KKK, not to "help remember." They're not historic places, and people need zero help "remembering" the Civil War. So what are you defending?

Some say things like "We should keep these statues as examples of what not to do." We do that with museums, not by putting them on a pedestal. For many, the defense ends up being a defense of the Confederates themselves, saying that Robert E. Lee was actually a pretty good guy because he treated his slaves better than others. Or the Bill O'Reilly special: Yes, much of this country was built by slaves, but the slaves were actually treated well.

You want to find someone "sanitizing history," go look at all the people fighting this hard to honor the Confederacy, or the ones saying fighting for slavery isn't that bad. These statues, among other things, have made that attitude socially acceptable in the South for a long time, and we're seeing the results today.

Here is a memorial to Lee and all the other Virginian's who fought at Gettysburg, it doesn't glorify them, it just tells how many fought and died. You can take it away, but that will never change the fact that it happened, no matter how had you try.

 

[UT_Dutchman]

I answered all of these questions in the post you quoted but apparently didn't read. The statues were built to be a public display of black inferiority, meant to intimidate black people and show former Confederates that their power wasn't threatened. The more the government sends that message, the more you're telling everyone in those areas that you're fine with all this "honor the Confederacy" **** and that you don't really care whether black people feel welcome in that place.

That's just brainwashed bulls#it. Here's another memorial to the men of Tennessee who fought and died at Gettysburg. Doesn't glorify them at all.

 

[UT_Dutchman]

That doesn't change anything. These statues aren't doing anything positive; even if 5% of the ~8 million black people in the South are bothered by them, that's 400,000 people and way more harm than good.

What kind of harm can an inanimate statue do?

 

[SandoVOL]

What kind of harm can an inanimate statue do?

melt a lot of snowflakes...

 

[UT_Dutchman]

Were Germans "sending a message about not offending people at any cost" when they removed Nazi statues? Does anyone give a crap about that message? Was it "over the top" of them to decide they wanted to look at Nazis with shame rather than putting them on a pedestal?

They fought and died for their cause, but chose a s***ty cause. When you do that, you risk shame. I'm sure there are individuals in Germany who honor the Nazis, and talk about how they didn't really support the Holocaust, or had no choice but to fight, or whatever...but as a larger society, there was no way in hell that Germany was going to endorse or idolize those people, and neither should we.

The Germans weren't fighting there brothers and countrymen, they were trying to take over the world. This is a apples to oranges argument, no real basis. The civil war was countrymen fighting each other and the South was not trying to take over the north or anywhere else. This comparison doesn't work, all it is about is trying to tie the South to much more villainous atrocities.

 

[FLVOL_79]

I picture you, '79, and '69 as a "special" troop with '72 as the good hearted yet frustrated troop leader.

Why aren't you out looting loother?

 

[FLVOL_79]

Never seen so much fear of statues. I bet this is how the people of Uruk must have reacted when a statue of Marduk was erected. Oh loordies no an evil effigy statue rock thangy thats scary and hurts mah feelins! He gonna put a spell on all of our figs and unclean and barely potable water!

I bet Nathan Bedford Forest would be laughing his ass off if he knew that they lost the war yet had their statues still "scaring the bajeebies" out of people still. lol:

 

[luthervol]

Why aren't you out looting loother?

Why would I be? If you think I fit the profile of likely looters then you've once again confirmed your ignorance.

Many in my county are still without power (I got power back at my house late last night) and many roads are still impassable. No looting that I know of, but plenty of people helping each other out.

Now Atlanta is a place I know you detest and of which you assume the worst, and we all know why, but my daughters have an apartment just off of GT's campus and they were without power from Monday afternoon until about an hour ago, they received nothing but help and good will.....hate to blow your stereotypes.

It seems there may be a looting problem in the Keys.

 

[FLVOL_79]

Why would I be? If you think I fit the profile of likely looters then you've once again confirmed your ignorance.

Many in my county are still without power (I got power back at my house late last night) and many roads are still impassable. No looting that I know of, but plenty of people helping each other out.

Now Atlanta is a place I know you detest and of which you assume the worst, and we all know why, but my daughters have an apartment just off of GT's campus and they were without power from Monday afternoon until about an hour ago, they received nothing but help and good will.....hate to blow your stereotypes.

It seems there may be a looting problem in the Keys.

Free stuff unguarded!

North Atlanta is ok. The rest is a huge sh!!hole. Thats just science.

But just think..if you were out there saving Air Jordans from the floods..think about how many votes you could pull your teams way in a few years!!!







Oh yeah..the looting in Florida..you might not want to actually look at who is doing it..friendly Volunteer advice.

-edit-

Sorry about the power. I lost mine for about 15 seconds during the storm...

 

[luthervol]

Free stuff unguarded!

 

[luthervol]

Free stuff unguarded!

North Atlanta is ok. The rest is a huge sh!!hole. Thats just science.

But just think..if you were out there saving Air Jordans from the floods..think about how many votes you could pull your teams way in a few years!!!







Oh yeah..the looting in Florida..you might not want to actually look at who is doing it..friendly Volunteer advice.

Why would I not want to look? It makes no difference to me. Looters suck and should be arrested and convicted, if not shot on spot. You're the one with the predefined composite. I've seen some of the looters and your friendly Volunteer advice was not needed. Hold dearly to your stereotypes, it gets you through the lonely nights.

 

[FLVOL_79]

Why would I not want to look. It makes no difference to me. Looters suck and should be arrested and convicted, if not shot on spot. You're the one with the predefined composite. I've seen some of the looters and your friendly Volunteer advice was not needed. Hold dearly to your stereotypes, it gets you through the lonely nights.

Yes..you've seen some of the looters. Tell us Loother...if we had to place bets on who they vote for if they vote..should we go red or blue?.................................

 

[luthervol]

Yes..you've seen some of the looters. Tell us Loother...if we had to place bets on who they vote for if they vote..should we go red or blue?.................................

They probably don't vote but if they did it would almost certainly be blue. Just like every white supremacist racist would almost certainly vote red. We all know this.

 

[NCFisher]

It's funny, I have this same question for people angrily defending Confederate statues. These statues were largely put up (quickly, and out of crappy materials) to intimidate black people at the peak of Jim Crow and the KKK, not to "help remember." They're not historic places, and people need zero help "remembering" the Civil War. So what are you defending?

Some say things like "We should keep these statues as examples of what not to do." We do that with museums, not by putting them on a pedestal. For many, the defense ends up being a defense of the Confederates themselves, saying that Robert E. Lee was actually a pretty good guy because he treated his slaves better than others. Or the Bill O'Reilly special: Yes, much of this country was built by slaves, but the slaves were actually treated well.

You want to find someone "sanitizing history," go look at all the people fighting this hard to honor the Confederacy, or the ones saying fighting for slavery isn't that bad. These statues, among other things, have made that attitude socially acceptable in the South for a long time, and we're seeing the results today.

Nonsense. You're imposing 21st century sensibilities upon 16-19th century life. The war wasn't fought over slavery; no Northern or Southern boys dug foxholes over the condition of blacks.

The entire country from North to South was neck deep into slavery til the very eve of war. We'd have to deconstruct a very large swath of American structures from universities, the WHouse and Capitol, and currency. The American flag flew over Northern slave ships who took the African from his land to sell into bondage. Northern financiers funded the voyages and plantation operations. Entire cities in the North were built around the produce of slavery. At any time, cotton was as much as 70% of ALL American exports. NYC, Boston, Philadelphia, etc. were built on that money. The North industrialized on that money and resources. That same American flag then waved over the genocide of the Native American.

Again, we either deconstruct the entire thing or accept that Southerners have a right to memorialize their antecedents, for their own various reasons, whether you like it or not.

 

[NCFisher]

It's not a maybe; the majority of them absolutely were.

What do you suggest the result is, then? If most were built to intimidate black people and a few weren't, we should just keep them all? Haha

Supply the list of which ones were put up simply to intimidate blacks and we'll go over it.

 

[NCFisher]

That doesn't change anything. These statues aren't doing anything positive; even if 5% of the ~8 million black people in the South are bothered by them, that's 400,000 people and way more harm than good.

Several days after Charlottesville, the NPR & PBS poll found that of blacks with an opinion a majority do NOT support removing the memorials. So, no, a minority being offended does not provide moral or ethical latitude for doing so.

 

[NCFisher]

Nobody will mess with statues of the Founding Fathers. But Confederate monuments are a different story. I read that 32 Confederate monuments have been installed in the last 17 years! There are more than 700 in 31 states. As a general rule, the losing side should not build statues, especially a side associated with slavery and white supremacy--but it's also been said, and there is some truth to it, that the North won the war but the South won the peace, meaning it aggressively pushed this idea of the Lost Cause--the noble underdogs fighting against insurmountable odds. It was fraudulent but it worked to some degree, I think partly owing to the South's military success for the first three years of the war. But in the end we should all be thankful that the South lost.

But the losing side was 1/3rd of American states at the time and a large section of this country. They've a right to honor their antecedents.

It was only until Lincoln made slavery an issue two years into the war, that European countries drifted away from the opinion that the South were indeed noble underdogs fighting insurmountable odds. Ironically, England having just lost the war for dominion of the colonies recently, Europe understood the Civil War as an identical fight