Fox "News" is Crap

#301
#301
lawgator1 said:
Well, I gather from your response that you do in fact see that there is a significant difference between what you claimed and then the proof you offered to support the claim.
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if there's such a huge difference then why would he say that a non-racist such as McCain would make then fear a black man? gObama is smart enough to know what he's saying
 
#303
#303
lawgator1 said:
Well, I gather from your response that you do in fact see that there is a significant difference between what you claimed and then the proof you offered to support the claim.






I haven't seen anything that says or implies that McCain himself is a racist. I'm still waiting to see some evidence of that. And I am especially waiting to see something from Obama that says that McCain is racist. I do not believe that exists.

I've seen plenty of conservative people anticipating that in their writings, I believe in hopes of making race-baiting an issue, even though I haven't seen any actual race-baiting.

About the closest would be that quip by Obama mentioned above by james (actually from what I can see the quote is about a month old, by the way). Obama should not make such statements, I would agree. But that is hardly calling McCain a racist. I would also agree that Obama needs to watch his p's and q's on that, lest he be tagged with the angry black man label attendant to Sharpton, Jackson, and now Rev. Wright. My guess is that he had learned his lesson on that.

I have seen no evidence whatsoever that McCain is a racist. Given the way he talks and acts, I'd be stunned if he was. I think he's an honorable guy and in a sense its too bad for the country that he is running in the environment that he is running in (Bush, gas prices, Iraq war, housing woes, etc.). I think that McCain would make a fine president and I can tell you right now that I imagine that soemthing like 80 % of the country in hindsight would have preferred that McCain had been president in 2001, rather than GWB.
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You don't consider Obama's comments about McCain's supposed strategy race baiting?
 
#304
#304
BigPapaVol said:
Then just how on earth would you characterize the comments that explictly say that McCain is going to campaign on the premise that America should be afraid of Obama as president because Obama's black? Does bigot fit better what he's calling McCain?
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When did he say that?
 
#306
#306
lawgator1 said:
When did he say that?
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How you can read this and see it like as innocent statement is beyond me

"We know what kind of campaign they're going to run," the Illinois senator said at a fundraising event in Jacksonville, Florida.

"They're going to try to make you afraid of me - 'He's young and inexperienced and he's got a funny name. And did I mention he's black?'"
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#307
#307
lawgator1 said:
Well, I gather from your response that you do in fact see that there is a significant difference between what you claimed and then the proof you offered to support the claim.
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You gather incorrectly. I originally stated that Obama directly implied that McCain was a racist. In support of that assertion, I offered statements made by Obama himself that McCain would run his campaign based on Obama's funny name and the fact that he's black. If McCain runs his campaign as Obama says he will, that would make McCain a racist. Conclusion: Obama is calling McCain a racist.
 
#308
#308
i guess you COULD argue he was talking about people other than mccain i.e. the swiftboat people against kerry.
 
#309
#309
Well, this is an excellent example of manipulation of facts to fit an agenda, and so I'm grateful it is in this thread.

The quote I've read is that Obama says that "they" will run a campaign etc., etc.. That then translates into, according to some on here, Obama calling McCain a racist.

Now that's just not true. Anyone who thinks that by "they" Obama is alluding to McCain is deluding themselves about how these things work. "Campaigns" at this level aren't about one guy. Its an entire movement. And we in fact see some members of the movement anxious to play on fears of some white voters.

We saw the same thing by the campaign for Hillary, much to my chagrin. Not that she is personally racist, but that the movement behind her has elements in it more than happy to play on those issues.

I have said I agree that Obama should not have said it for no other reason than that it is stupid politics by him and makes it too easy to link him to Sharpton, et. al.

But that is simply not the same thing as Obama calling McCain a racist.

I don't think Obama thinks McCain is a racist. Quite the contrary. McCain is rather liberal on social issues and I imagine he is on race, too. But there will surely be some significant people out there who are campaigning for McCain who, as in the case of Hillary, won't have a problem casting such aspersions.

Its one of the things that bothers McCain I am sure about the 527s. In fact, just last week there was one that started running an ad claiming that Obama is Muslim and McCain himself had them shut up. I really think that is who Obama is alluding to and I think that McCain agrees with him on that.

Edit: As I post this I see droski's remark, which seems spot on, to me.
 
#310
#310
lawgator1 said:
Well, this is an excellent example of manipulation of facts to fit an agenda, and so I'm grateful it is in this thread.

The quote I've read is that Obama says that "they" will run a campaign etc., etc.. That then translates into, according to some on here, Obama calling McCain a racist.

Now that's just not true. Anyone who thinks that by "they" Obama is alluding to McCain is deluding themselves about how these things work. "Campaigns" at this level aren't about one guy. Its an entire movement. And we in fact see some members of the movement anxious to play on fears of some white voters.

We saw the same thing by the campaign for Hillary, much to my chagrin. Not that she is personally racist, but that the movement behind her has elements in it more than happy to play on those issues.

I have said I agree that Obama should not have said it for no other reason than that it is stupid politics by him and makes it too easy to link him to Sharpton, et. al.

But that is simply not the same thing as Obama calling McCain a racist.

I don't think Obama thinks McCain is a racist. Quite the contrary. McCain is rather liberal on social issues and I imagine he is on race, too. But there will surely be some significant people out there who are campaigning for McCain who, as in the case of Hillary, won't have a problem casting such aspersions.

Its one of the things that bothers McCain I am sure about the 527s. In fact, just last week there was one that started running an ad claiming that Obama is Muslim and McCain himself had them shut up. I really think that is who Obama is alluding to and I think that McCain agrees with him on that.
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D@$m Faux News!
 
#311
#311
jamesd1628 said:
You gather incorrectly. I originally stated that Obama directly implied that McCain was a racist. In support of that assertion, I offered statements made by Obama himself that McCain would run his campaign based on Obama's funny name and the fact that he's black. If McCain runs his campaign as Obama says he will, that would make McCain a racist. Conclusion: Obama is calling McCain a racist.
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This debate IS MrHanky.jpg
 
#315
#315
I guess I just view things in simple terms. When a candidate for Pres say "we know what kind of campaign they're going to run", to me that means he is speaking about the only other person opposing him. Most people make it clear who they are discussing or leave it vague on purpose. I believe gObama is too good a speaker to have left it vague on accident.

I guess he also could have been speaking about Bob Barr but we will just never know.
 
#316
#316
lawgator1 said:
Well, this is an excellent example of manipulation of facts to fit an agenda, and so I'm grateful it is in this thread.

The quote I've read is that Obama says that "they" will run a campaign etc., etc.. That then translates into, according to some on here, Obama calling McCain a racist.

Now that's just not true. Anyone who thinks that by "they" Obama is alluding to McCain is deluding themselves about how these things work. "Campaigns" at this level aren't about one guy. Its an entire movement. And we in fact see some members of the movement anxious to play on fears of some white voters.

We saw the same thing by the campaign for Hillary, much to my chagrin. Not that she is personally racist, but that the movement behind her has elements in it more than happy to play on those issues.

I have said I agree that Obama should not have said it for no other reason than that it is stupid politics by him and makes it too easy to link him to Sharpton, et. al.

But that is simply not the same thing as Obama calling McCain a racist.

I don't think Obama thinks McCain is a racist. Quite the contrary. McCain is rather liberal on social issues and I imagine he is on race, too. But there will surely be some significant people out there who are campaigning for McCain who, as in the case of Hillary, won't have a problem casting such aspersions.

Its one of the things that bothers McCain I am sure about the 527s. In fact, just last week there was one that started running an ad claiming that Obama is Muslim and McCain himself had them shut up. I really think that is who Obama is alluding to and I think that McCain agrees with him on that.

Edit: As I post this I see droski's remark, which seems spot on, to me.
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This is argument is weak. Obama is clearly referring to McCain's campaign, which McCain is clearly in charge of. McCain has gone out of his way to distance himself from fringe comments and actions that could be considered racial. It would be grossly unfair to lump some fring elements in with the official compaign that McCain is running. Obama certainly didn't make any effort to exclude McCain from the comment. He didn't do anything to indicate that he was talking about some fringe elements. Would you object if McCain took some offensive stance taken by the fringe left and attibuted it to the entire Obama compaign? I dare say the liberal media would have a field day with that.
 
#317
#317
KB5252 said:
This was late 80's he was on Air America and ran for office in Minnesota, I just remembered Al Franken.
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Ah...Al Franken. Thanks, KB! No, he is not even remotely funny. Except for the SNL skit with him doing election coverage wearing that portable satellite linkup and getting struck by lightning (or something like that). That was hilarious.
 
#318
#318
utvolpj said:
I guess I just view things in simple terms. When a candidate for Pres say "we know what kind of campaign they're going to run", to me that means he is speaking about the only other person opposing him. Most people make it clear who they are discussing or leave it vague on purpose. I believe gObama is too good a speaker to have left it vague on accident.

I guess he also could have been speaking about Bob Barr but we will just never know.
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jamesd1628 said:
This is argument is weak. Obama is clearly referring to McCain's campaign, which McCain is clearly in charge of. McCain has gone out of his way to distance himself from fringe comments and actions that could be considered racial. It would be grossly unfair to lump some fring elements in with the official compaign that McCain is running. Obama certainly didn't make any effort to exclude McCain from the comment. He didn't do anything to indicate that he was talking about some fringe elements. Would you object if McCain took some offensive stance taken by the fringe left and attibuted it to the entire Obama compaign? I dare say the liberal media would have a field day with that.
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Actually, the irony is that james' first post on this particular issue was that there was a difference between what a right or left wing website would say in the course of the campaign and what the candidates say about each other.

To quote james:

"I'll tell you what is far more disturbing than a partisan site saying or implying something that may be misleading about a candidate - that would be one candidate personally doing that to the other candidate. For example, Obama's speech a couple of days ago where he directly implies that McCain is a racist and and has made race an issue in this election. What a croc. Now that is a disturbing outright lie."


I think it obvious that in context Obama's comment was directed at that broad coalition over whom McCain actually has very little control, rather than McCain himself. And so far no one can show me that Obama has ever called McCain a racist.

Surely, you would agree that some constituency of McCain's is racist. Just as I would agree that some constituency of Obama's campaign is race-baiting. If we are to have a truly issue-based campaign and avoid getting mired down in name calling, and protesting that the other is falsely name-calling for strategic reasons, both candidates need to choose their words carefully and make sure that any criticism they offer is directed at specific people.

For example, Obama should have said that he figures that guys like Bob Barr are going to manipulate voters based on race (just an example, I don't know if he will). Similarly, if McCain feels that there is race-baiting oging on, then he ought to say that it is coming from Sharpton (assuming that it is).

I thnk we can probably agree at least on this.
 
#319
#319
the problem isn't implying that some of mccain's fans are racists because surely many of obama's fans wouldn't be voting for him if he wasn't black. the problem is by throwing it out there, obama is opening the door to complaining that any negative campaign is racially motivated which if of course ridiculous. it also makes the national media which primarly consists of guilty liberal white people far less likely to critisize anything obama says or does because the fact of the matter is there isn't a thing in america that you could possible be accused of that would hurt your career more than being called a racist.
 
#320
#320
droski said:
the problem isn't implying that some of mccain's fans are racists because surely many of obama's fans wouldn't be voting for him if he wasn't black. the problem is by throwing it out there, obama is opening the door to complaining that any negative campaign is racially motivated which if of course ridiculous. it also makes the national media which primarly consists of guilty liberal white people far less likely to critisize anything obama says or does because the fact of the matter is there isn't a thing in america that you could possible be accused of that would hurt your career more than being called a racist.
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I have a hard time believing he was thinking at that level when he said that. I think he was trying to be funny, actually.

But as I say I do agree he needed to be thinking about what he said with a bit more focus and he needs to be careful about the race issue precisely so that he cannot be accused of overplaying the race card.

Look at the last 30 posts as evidence.
 
#321
#321
droski said:
the problem isn't implying that some of mccain's fans are racists because surely many of obama's fans wouldn't be voting for him if he wasn't black. the problem is by throwing it out there, obama is opening the door to complaining that any negative campaign is racially motivated which if of course ridiculous. it also makes the national media which primarly consists of guilty liberal white people far less likely to critisize anything obama says or does because the fact of the matter is there isn't a thing in america that you could possible be accused of that would hurt your career more than being called a racist.
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Exactly, and he threw it in with other legit criticsims such as his inexperience. Any criticims then has a racial tinge to it.

He claims to reject divisive politics but his continual suggestions that Republicans will do this or Republicans will do that is completely divisive. He pits poor against rich, people against corporations, Republicans against Democrats -- how in the world is this not divisive politics?
 
#322
#322
volinbham said:
Exactly, and he threw it in with other legit criticsims such as his inexperience. Any criticims then has a racial tinge to it.

He claims to reject divisive politics but his continual suggestions that Republicans will do this or Republicans will do that is completely divisive. He pits poor against rich, people against corporations, Republicans against Democrats -- how in the world is this not divisive politics?
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That's why I hope that in the future he names names.
 
#323
#323
Drudge has posted a three-day old story that is (falsely) labeled that a reporter who travelled with Obama paid over $100 for a sandwich and soup.

Read the article. Its pretty obvious what happened.

Invoice from Obama coverage another view of campaign: HeraldTimesOnline.com


Once gain, bastarization of the facts to make it seem to the superificial reader that Obama is a Limousine Liberal.
 
#324
#324
lawgator1 said:
Drudge has posted a three-day old story that is (falsely) labeled that a reporter who travelled with Obama paid over $100 for a sandwich and soup.

Read the article. Its pretty obvious what happened.

Invoice from Obama coverage another view of campaign: HeraldTimesOnline.com


Once gain, bastarization of the facts to make it seem to the superificial reader that Obama is a Limousine Liberal.
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snob.jpg
 
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