Freedom of speech!

#79
#79
volfanhill said:
I am 100% for business owners setting the terms of service on their platform.
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When the platform is spread by electronic media such as airwaves or internet, do those business owners really own the platform? Don't get me wrong, I think business owners have the right to set the conduct of their business; I'm just doubting what you can control on "public airways". The ironic thing is that owners have had limits placed on them as far as conduct of business for a very long time - simple example would be the inability to deny service on the basis of race, creed, etc

I also believe strongly that any individual has the right not to have to listen to what another says - which would imply you can't stand on a public sidewalk or street and scream your views at me ... but that doesn't go far either. I agree with hog that the First Amendment gives you the freedom to say what you wish to government, but it doesn't extend beyond that (may not necessarily be hog's view on the latter part). I can turn off a broadcast or Twitter or similar, but the right to "free speech" in a public space is problematic. It seems the right to speak freely should also be interpreted as a right not to hear by anyone but government.
 
#80
#80
85SugarVol said:
What do you make of the argument that those instances aren’t really limitations of “speech”, and are actually an issue of property rights?
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The government has allocated airwaves for radio, TV, etc for a very long time; it's like an extension of controlling the flow of traffic on public roads - the prevention of chaos. If you see that as the government basically "owning" or at least managing the air waves, then would the government and not the business actually own the platform? The right to broadcast is regulated and licensed. Who owns the internet - the platform for Twitter, etc? I'd argue it isn't owned by Twitter. I'm not advocating for more government or government control, but none of this seems completely clear cut either.
 
#81
#81
BigO95 said:
I'm just looking for opinion..... And yes, sometimes police officers do try to stop it. I know that from personal experience.
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Someone preaching religion or any other view on a public street, sidewalk, park, etc should be considered a public nuisance. End of story. Someone may have the right to petition government; he doesn't have the right to petition the rest of us.
 
#82
#82
AM64 said:
The government has allocated airwaves for radio, TV, etc for a very long time; it's like an extension of controlling the flow of traffic on public roads - the prevention of chaos. If you see that as the government basically "owning" or at least managing the air waves, then would the government and not the business actually own the platform? The right to broadcast is regulated and licensed. Who owns the internet - the platform for Twitter, etc? I'd argue it isn't owned by Twitter. I'm not advocating for more government or government control, but none of this seems completely clear cut either.
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The one thing I miss after leaving cable tv behind and going to streaming is the "emergency broadcast system" messages that would randomly blast across my tv and sounded just like they did 50 years earlier.
 
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#83
#83
BigO95 said:
I personally disagree with that tactic of badgering people while they are trying to eat, but I am for preaching the gospel in public places. And also people are free to move to where the preacher isn't.
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If someone is preaching anything on the street within my hearing, he is badgering me and invading my freedom not to hear. There are two sides to free speech - otherwise it's simple anarchy.
 
#84
#84
hog88 said:
That's a good question. IMO and my opinion only, as long as they are not impeding movement or violating a noise ordinance there is no need for the authorities to intervene.
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Is a noise ordinance limited to volume or does it also pertain to content? When children are present, is all speech suitable? Do you restrict public spaces on the message or that some places are not appropriate for children?
 
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#85
#85
AM64 said:
If someone is preaching anything on the street within my hearing, he is badgering me and invading my freedom not to hear. There are two sides to free speech - otherwise it's simple anarchy.
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Dang dude, do you not believe in the first amendment?
 
#86
#86
VolStrom said:
Dang dude, do you not believe in the first amendment?
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Yes and no. I like my right to peace and quiet more than a blabbermouth creating noise in public places. Since I'm not government, I claim the right not to have to hear.
 
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#88
#88
AM64 said:
Someone preaching religion or any other view on a public street, sidewalk, park, etc should be considered a public nuisance. End of story. Someone may have the right to petition government; he doesn't have the right to petition the rest of us.
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You have a right not to listen.... But you don't have a right to tell a person what they can and cannot say in a public area..... Jmo. Tifwiw
 
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#89
#89
AM64 said:
BTW, I can't figure out exactly why, but there's something about this live cam that always makes me think of VN. Might be the guy pulling the rope seems a little like somebody on the continuum ... or weird drugs.

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Are you sure it's not the guy sweeping the dirt with a broom?
 
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#90
#90
AM64 said:
Is a noise ordinance limited to volume or does it also pertain to content? When children are present, is all speech suitable? Do you restrict public spaces on the message or that some places are not appropriate for children?
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Good point, when children or even adults are present not all speech is suitable. I get real tired of loudmouthed idjits with severely limited vocabulary dropping f bombs every 5 seconds in restaurants, stores, etc.
 
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#91
#91
AM64 said:
Yes and no. I like my right to peace and quiet more than a blabbermouth creating noise in public places. Since I'm not government, I claim the right not to have to hear.
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So what happens when they start censoring the speech you are passionate about? Who gets to decide what is censored and what is not?
 
#93
#93
BigO95 said:
It doesn't matter if you like it or not, as long as they aren't harassing people they have a God given right to preach what they believe the gospel to be.
People are welcome to agree or disagree agree all they please, and nobody is making them sit and listen to it.
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BigO95 said:
You have a right not to listen.... But you don't have a right to tell a person what they can and cannot say in a public area..... Jmo. Tifwiw
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There are many Biblical examples of freedom of speech (both Stephen and Jonah had the freedom to speak << only Stephen was killed for his speech << go figure)

a. Jonah -- the people and King actually listened / took heed

6When word reached the king of Nineveh, he got up from his throne, took off his royal robe, covered himself with sackcloth, and sat in ashes.
7Then he issued a proclamation in Nineveh:
“By the decree of the king and his nobles: 8Furthermore, let both man and beast be covered with sackcloth, and have everyone call out earnestly to God. Let each one turn from his evil ways and from the violence in his hands. 9Who knows? God may turn and relent;

b. Stephen -- on hearing the truth, the religious leaders were jealous, just as the brothers of Joseph

2And Stephen declared: “Brothers and fathers, listen to me!
9Because the patriarchs were jealous of Joseph, they sold him as a slave into Egypt.
54On hearing this, the members of the Sanhedrin were enraged,q and they gnashed their teeth at him.
57At this they covered their ears, cried out in a loud voice, and rushed together at him. 58They dragged him out of the city and began to stone him. Meanwhile the witnesses laid their garments at the feet of a young man named Saul.
 
#94
#94
BigO95 said:
So what happens when they start censoring the speech you are passionate about? Who gets to decide what is censored and what is not?
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I'm not talking about censorship; only about the "venue". We by being here agree to share ideas and beliefs - sometimes widely differing views. I don't agree to that same thing from a stranger while sitting in an airplane, a restaurant, public transportation, or while walking down a street. We all have the right to voice our beliefs and to petition the government. By law, government generally can't refuse to hear or censor our beliefs, but I don't see where that extends to forcing what any one of us has to say or think on another person - a person not part of government. Once you deviate from speech being the reasoned transmission of thoughts in printed media or addressed in the proper forum, then you've likely moved on to the invasion of another's right not to be disturbed.

I have distinctly different views on the 1/6 issue, too. Instead of burning and looting on city streets where there was little chance of government officially being addressed, the 1/6 crowd took their message to the heart of government ... who stuck fingers in their ears, went into hiding, and locked the doors. Ask yourself which group - the one on the streets of Portland or the one at the capitol - was acting more in accordance with the thought behind the 1st Amendment - that of petitioning government.
 
#95
#95
BigO95 said:
You have a right not to listen.... But you don't have a right to tell a person what they can and cannot say in a public area..... Jmo. Tifwiw
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One has every right to tell that person what they can or can't say. The other person doesn't necessarily have to do comply however...
 
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#98
#98
EasternVol said:
Good point, when children or even adults are present not all speech is suitable. I get real tired of loudmouthed idjits with severely limited vocabulary dropping f bombs every 5 seconds in restaurants, stores, etc.
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Then don't listen in on my conversations, dammit.
 
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#99
#99
EasternVol said:
Good point, when children or even adults are present not all speech is suitable. I get real tired of loudmouthed idjits with severely limited vocabulary dropping f bombs every 5 seconds in restaurants, stores, etc.
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You need to start dining at classy establishments like Wendy's.
 
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#100
#100
BigO95 said:
Do you think that let's say a Catholic priest should be able to go and either preach Catholic doctrine or talk to people about the Catholic religion as long as the people are willing to talk to him? What about openly protesting any subject on the public streets and parks?
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BigO95 said:
It doesn't matter if you like it or not, as long as they aren't harassing people they have a God given right to preach what they believe the gospel to be.
People are welcome to agree or disagree agree all they please, and nobody is making them sit and listen to it.
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imo, there are so, so many lessons ^ in those statements/questions --

e.g. Why did the people (and some religious leaders, e.g. Nicodemus) desire to follow Jesus / why did they desire His water and bread "of life" ?

a. he was known to turn water into wine, and to multiply 5 fishes and 2 loaves into a smorgasbord to feed 5000 (with leftovers) << naturally, they determined, he could give them life
b. he was known to heal the paralytic, then turn to him and forgive him his sins << naturally, they determined (as He said), He would forgive them / us of their / our sins (Just as He said and promised).

But -- ending with the Apostles -- such miracles are done with (i.e. the death, burial and resurrection):

26Eight days later, His disciples were once again inside with the doors locked, and Thomas was with them. Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you.”

27Then Jesus said to Thomas, “Put your finger here and look at My hands. Reach out your hand and put it into My side. Stop doubting and believe.”

28Thomas replied, “My Lord and my God!”

29Jesus said to him, “Because you have seen Me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

30Jesus performed many other signs in the presence of His disciples, which are not written in this book. 31But these are written so that you may believee that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in His name.
 
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