Freeze and Dabo negative religious recruit UT

[JDisThereThere]

And you claim Christians are close minded? Nobody is trying to convince you of anything. We're trying to have a discussion.

Oh cmon man, when and where did I say that Christians were close-minded? In this instance, I was just saying that the bible doesn't convince me. I thought we were having a good, civil discussion.

 

[StoVol]

Scalia has died. God help us now

 

[Grey_pilgrim]

No. If I gave you that impression from my wording, then sorry. They all end in the same result.

Thanks for the clarification. Like others I have problems with all sins being equal or of the same punishment and that our finite sins will cause infinite suffering for those sins. I also have a hard time reconciling with some of the horrible things that happened in the OT.

Now more than I have in recent years, I want to believe but I just can't seem to. I can't flip a switch and make myself believe. I try to live a decent life and by the Ten Commandments more or less. I'm sure by Gods standards I'm probably both blasphemous and idolatrous, but other than those things I keep the rest. But belief in God in something I don't know if I'll have.

 

[InVOLuntary]

Oh cmon man, when and where did I say that Christians were close-minded? In this instance, I was just saying that the bible doesn't convince me. I thought we were having a good, civil discussion.

Ok. Maybe I took your post wrong. If you truly believe that's all that's in Revelation you either didn't read it completely or you didn't understand it. Anyway I'm done. It's obvious to me you are not really open to considering that there might be a higher power so no point in discussing it further. Have a good evening.

 

[JDisThereThere]

Ok. Maybe I took your post wrong. If you truly believe that's all that's in Revelation you either didn't read it completely or you didn't understand it. Anyway I'm done. It's obvious to me you are not really open to considering that there might be a higher power so no point in discussing it further. Have a good evening.

Well no, that's not all the stuff in revelation. Did you want me to list every single thing in the book? You asked if I'd read it. I said yes and then made some assumptions about why you were asking me that and you never really responded. You said I claimed that Christians were close-minded (which I didn't). Now your claiming that I am close-minded, which I take as an insult since that is the last thing I want to be. I've conceded that there could be a higher power/creator in this very thread, but I'm not convinced of the claims of theism based on the evidence. It seems to me that your the one that doesn't want to discuss this.

 

[InVOLuntary]

Well no, that's not all the stuff in revelation. Did you want me to list every single thing in the book? You asked if I'd read it. I said yes and then made some assumptions about why you were asking me that and you never really responded. You said I claimed that Christians were close-minded (which I didn't). Now your claiming that I am close-minded, which I take as an insult since that is the last thing I want to be. I've conceded that there could be a higher power/creator in this very thread, but I'm not convinced of the claims of theism based on the evidence. It seems to me that your the one that doesn't want to discuss this.

Again, you made some wrong assumptions about my post, I did yours. Let's just leave it at that. You are getting your Jimmies rustled which was not my intention. Have a great night.

 

[JDisThereThere]

Again, you made some wrong assumptions about my post, I did yours. Let's just leave it at that. You are getting your Jimmies rustled which was not my intention. Have a great night.

No worries good sir. You didn't rustle my jimmies in the slightest. Good evening to you as well.

If I might make a suggestion, I think it's about time we moved this thread to the off-topic forum. Don't think it needs to be in the 'cruitin forum anymore. Mods may do as they wish.

 

[FleeceItOut]

JD, my man, if you are looking for an answer to everything and countless amounts of scientific data to support that Christ lives, you will never find it.

That's why it's called faith. We have all of the information we need (the bible), and we are all given a choice.

 

[Vols4us]

There have been excellent posts from believers in these pages that offer much wisdom. There have been some really thoughtful posts by non-believers as well. So I will offer this to the non-believer: the pursuit of knowledge and understanding only goes so far. You will never fully understand all you need to know to be a Christian through study. How good you are, following commandments, being moral, and your works will never be enough to qualify you for heaven in a holy God's presence. Every person ever born has sinned against God in thought, word, and deed. There is only way, through acceptance of the perfect Christ's gift of sacrifice on the Cross and his following resurrection and ascent to God the Father. Eternal life is in his body broken and his blood shed for all of us. Judgment comes to those that hear, but do not accept. I am not speaking of infants, children, and those who have never heard of God and Jesus. I know from scripture that God is good, loving, and desires none to perish. That tells me he will be fair, merciful, and just.

Many non-believers know these representations and still do not accept him as their Savior due to real and fabricated objections. Only the non-believer can choose to change that. Becoming a Christian believer is an individual, personal choice coming straight from an honest heart. The believer can only bear witness to his/her own choice and the results. I can only testify to what Jesus has done for me and for others I know personally.

Unfortunately all believers still experience known and unknown sin in their lives. We are in no way perfect in the world, just forgiven. As a result we seek his forgiveness and turn from sin as we go on our journey through life. When we join him in heaven our worldly sins are no more. We are restored in complete fellowship with God as he originally intended in the Garden. For we are his creation and have been made for his purposes. Personally he lifted me from the darkest period of my life, restored me and my family, accelerated my wisdom and understanding, and now completes me. I have learned I am nothing without him. He knew that my entire being humbly and honestly sought him and his answers, not my own. I had failed so much by doing things my way. When I laid my pride at his feet and gave myself totally to him - everything changed. I have received real world answers and solutions to what I have brought before him to solve on my behalf as well as for other people and situations. He is faithful. When my time comes to exit this world I go willingly and joyfully. I pray for each of you to begin that journey with him right now. Don't wait.

One final recommendation. If you truly struggle as a skeptic that is sincerely seeking answers, please read the books of Lee Strobel. He is a Yale Law School graduate, former journalist for the Chicago Tribune, and a former atheist. His books may provide you great insight if your intellect strains your walk toward faith. His atheism began to unravel when his wife received salvation and he saw the changes in her. He began a pursuit of knowledge about Christianity that eventually led to personal faith in Christ as his Savior.

 

[Grey_pilgrim]

Honest question to anyone who wants to answer, what's your feelings on numbers 31:17-18?

 

[JDisThereThere]

Honest question to anyone who wants to answer, what's your feelings on numbers 31:17-18?

Disgusting, despicable, repulsive, grotesque, misogynistic, cruel, sexist, unfair, wicked, immoral.

Taken out of context, it's hideous. Taken with the context, it's still hideous.

Kill everyone except for the virgin women (who were probably just teenage girls). I think I know what the Isrealites had in mind.

Raping and pillaging is alright as long as it's commanded by God is what I take from it. The old testament contains a whole bunch of truly brutal and horrifying malarky.

 

[Ulysees E. McGill]

Honest question to anyone who wants to answer, what's your feelings on numbers 31:17-18?

I am not going to get in a debate with you, but I will tell you my feelings. Just as they are today and always have been, the children of Israel were surrounded by people that wanted to destroy them. God didn't want them destroyed.

 

[JDisThereThere]

JD, my man, if you are looking for an answer to everything and countless amounts of scientific data to support that Christ lives, you will never find it.

That's why it's called faith. We have all of the information we need (the bible), and we are all given a choice.

No argument from me about it being all about faith. I totally disagree that the bible is all the information we need. The bible contains nothing that people from the Bronze Age wouldn't know about. If the bible explained things such as evolution, electricity, magnetism, micro-organisms, biology, geology, cosmology, physics, quantum mechanics, black holes, dark matter, the origin of life, etc., then I think it would really be worth looking at. If it truly astonished us then it probably would be the divinely inspired word of an all-knowing supreme being. As it is, it's just an ancient book that becomes more and more outdated with each passing moment.

Here's one of my favorite quotes from NDT... "God is an ever receding pocket of scientific ignorance".

 

[FleeceItOut]

No argument from me about it being all about faith. I totally disagree that the bible is all the information we need. The bible contains nothing that people from the Bronze Age wouldn't know about. If the bible explained things such as evolution, electricity, magnetism, micro-organisms, biology, geology, cosmology, physics, quantum mechanics, black holes, dark matter, the origin of life, etc., then I think it would really be worth looking at. If it truly astonished us then it probably would be the divinely inspired word of an all-knowing supreme being. As it is, it's just an ancient book that becomes more and more outdated with each passing moment.

Here's one of my favorite quotes from NDT... "God is an ever receding pocket of scientific ignorance".

Why would that information be relevant? What would that have to do with the message he was trying to send?

In my opinion there is more evidence to prove in favor of Christians and God than there is to disprove it.

Sure you aren't going to get an answer to everything, but there is more evidence than you give credit for.

Scientific evidence.

 

[PrattvilleVol]

Freeze was a dirty package deal with Oher to OM and when the heat got hot he slithered out. Now he's back doing the same crap using the bible as a shield. Hiring Patterson's brother on staff and then signing Patterson proves he's still a disgusting POC. I'm a believer and hypocrites are garbage.

 

[FleeceItOut]

Freeze was a dirty package deal with Oher to OM and when the heat got hot he slithered out. Now he's back doing the same crap using the bible as a shield. Hiring Patterson's brother on staff and then signing Patterson proves he's still a disgusting POC. I'm a believer and hypocrites are garbage.

Are you in Prattville, AL?

 

[Grey_pilgrim]

I am not going to get in a debate with you, but I will tell you my feelings. Just as they are today and always have been, the children of Israel were surrounded by people that wanted to destroy them. God didn't want them destroyed.

Honestly no debate was wanted. Just looking for answers to something I'd struggled with when I believed. That and other places caused me to doubt and its those type of things that keep me from believing today. Another issue I take is when Christians use the bible to against abortion. Do you think the Israelites stop to ask the women if they where with child? I do believe abortion after the first trimester and in cases other than rape and the mothers life being in danger to be wrong.

Again these are issues that I have, I'm not wanting to debate anyone. Others might but I will not, at least not in this instance where all I want is answers. I may question you as to why you believe the way you do but I won't debate you for them.

 

[PrattvilleVol]

Are you in Prattville, AL?

For the past 10 years

 

[walkenvol]

That and other places caused me to doubt and its those type of things that keep me from believing today.

I do believe abortion after the first trimester and in cases other than rape and the mothers life being in danger to be wrong.

Again these are issues that I have, I'm not wanting to debate anyone.

I'm not looking for a debate or to critique your beliefs, but I've always been curious how a person without a religious belief establishes their moral code. How do you decide what is "wrong"? Laws of the nation - if it's illegal than it's wrong and everything else is OK?

 

[UT_Dutchman]

Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind.

-Einstein

 

[Grey_pilgrim]

I'm not looking for a debate or to critique your beliefs, but I've always been curious how a person without a religious belief establishes their moral code. How do you decide what is "wrong"? Laws of the nation - if it's not illegal than it's wrong and everything else is OK?

How do you establish your moral code?

 

[OGbabyaviVol]

Honest question to anyone who wants to answer, what's your feelings on numbers 31:17-18?

I know there are some heinous acts in the OT, and it's hard to get past those things for some. It's hard to understand why God would allow so much murder to occur, but you have to remember that all of the nations outside of Israel saw them as a force to be reckoned with. They were threatened by them, and knew based on how God had delivered them from slavery from the Egyptians that they were a nation in favor with God. If God didn't allow His people to attack and overtake those nations, then those nations would attack and kill His people. Then you have to think about what is the central theme of the entire Bible...Jesus. In the OT, everything is based around the theme that the Christ, the Messiah is coming. In order for that to happen, God had to preserve His people, by which Jesus would come...specifically the tribe of Judah. If God didn't protect His people, then they would have been destroyed...no lineage that was prophesied for Jesus to come. Also, the reason God allowed His people to completely destroy nations was because they were involved in pagan worship...idolatry. God didn't want His people to have any of that influence to worship false gods around them. However, we know what happens...they disobeyed Him and on multiple occasions, they did not completely destroy the nation they were overtaking. They even married women from those nations which God had given them the command to not do. Because they did, they ended up being influenced by the outsiders to worship idols, which God despised and His people were punished for this.

The central theme surrounding Jesus continues in the NT. In the 4 gospels, it's all about Jesus is here. Then Acts through Revelation is about Jesus is coming back. I hope this helps you a little. Those acts in the OT are brutal, but were necessary to preserve God's own special people, whom His beloved Son would come from.

 

[OGbabyaviVol]

No argument from me about it being all about faith. I totally disagree that the bible is all the information we need. The bible contains nothing that people from the Bronze Age wouldn't know about. If the bible explained things such as evolution, electricity, magnetism, micro-organisms, biology, geology, cosmology, physics, quantum mechanics, black holes, dark matter, the origin of life, etc., then I think it would really be worth looking at. If it truly astonished us then it probably would be the divinely inspired word of an all-knowing supreme being. As it is, it's just an ancient book that becomes more and more outdated with each passing moment.

Here's one of my favorite quotes from NDT... "God is an ever receding pocket of scientific ignorance".

JD, the origin of life is told to us in Genesis 1. If God is not real and created everything we know, but evolution is real, then where did the initial substance come from for things to begin evolving? To create is to make something from absolutely nothing. That's what God did. How did the first living cell get here to begin evolution? How did the first seeds get here to have plant life? How did the first creatures/animals get here to begin animal life? Someone or some thing had to put them here. They didn't just pop up from nowhere. This is why I believe it takes more faith to believe evolution than creation.

 

[Glitch]

I know there are some heinous acts in the OT, and it's hard to get past those things for some. It's hard to understand why God would allow so much murder to occur, but you have to remember that all of the nations outside of Israel saw them as a force to be reckoned with. They were threatened by them, and knew based on how God had delivered them from slavery from the Egyptians that they were a nation in favor with God. If God didn't allow His people to attack and overtake those nations, then those nations would attack and kill His people. Then you have to think about what is the central theme of the entire Bible...Jesus. In the OT, everything is based around the theme that the Christ, the Messiah is coming. In order for that to happen, God had to preserve His people, by which Jesus would come...specifically the tribe of Judah. If God didn't protect His people, then they would have been destroyed...no lineage that was prophesied for Jesus to come. Also, the reason God allowed His people to completely destroy nations was because they were involved in pagan worship...idolatry. God didn't want His people to have any of that influence to worship false gods around them. However, we know what happens...they disobeyed Him and on multiple occasions, they did not completely destroy the nation they were overtaking. They even married women from those nations which God had given them the command to not do. Because they did, they ended up being influenced by the outsiders to worship idols, which God despised.

The central theme surrounding Jesus continues in the NT. In the 4 gospels, it's all about Jesus is here. Then Acts through Revelation is about Jesus is coming back. I hope this helps you a little. Those acts in the OT are brutal, but were necessary to preserve God's own special people, whom His beloved Son would come from.

This. People use the OT and God's calls for the destruction of entire city-states as proof the God is not real. God knew his people were sinful and easily swayed. After God brought them out of Egypt Moses went up on the mountain to commune with God. After only a few days they built a golden calf to worship. This was without any outsiders there to influence them. They had just seen the miracles and wonders of God with their own eyes and they still strayed. God knew that any pagan influence would need to be removed to keep them from straying. Obviously He was right. As usual.

 

[UTvols#1]

Anyone remember Tyrus in the bible? He was the king of Tyre..Some people think Tyre was the city of Atlantis.. Anyone know who Tyrus really was ?