Freshman Arrested for DUI

[lawgator1]

DUI is just as reprehensible as the waving the gun incident, stupidity in a car not only puts the offender at risk but everyone else on the highway at that point in time. If Johnson did it bounce him. DUI conviction bounce him. A drunk behind the wheel is just as dangerous as someone with a gun, maybe just not as obvious.

Don't misunderstand. I did not mean to say that DUI is not serious. I certainly did not mean to imply that it wasn't dangerous.

What I meant was, as far as that kernel of evil intent is concerned, I put waiving a gun (real or toy) at someone driving a car ahead of that. I'm talking purely about the subjective intent issue.

A DUI driver is more likely to hurt someone than a guy waiving a toy gun around, I agree. But while the former is reckless to the degree of criminality and can cause more harm, the former is, solely from an intent point of view, worse.

 

[bigdaddy]

Apparently you have note educated yourself on the definition of aggravated assault.
Also, you see people in body casts directly due to an automobile accident, indirectly caused by drinking and driving. I could definitely foresee situations in which someone is killed, indirectly spurned by a threat with a toy weapon. Was the Florida case involving the police shooting referenced earlier in this post?

Whatever dude. I just see DUI as more dangerous than waving a pelet gun that was not discharged. Make what you want out the the charges but you have to look at the case in hand. Which is more dangerous a drunk behind the wheel of a quater ton vehicle traveling at 30 mph or a person waving a pelot gun. My opinion, the drunk-they killed more people last year than pelot guns did.

 

[Lexvol]

Don't misunderstand. I did not mean to say that DUI is not serious. I certainly did not mean to imply that it wasn't dangerous.

What I meant was, as far as that kernel of evil intent is concerned, I put waiving a gun (real or toy) at someone driving a car ahead of that. I'm talking purely about the subjective intent issue.

A DUI driver is more likely to hurt someone than a guy waiving a toy gun around, I agree. But while the former is reckless to the degree of criminality and can cause more harm, the former is, solely from an intent point of view, worse.

It seems that evil intent would be a lot harder to prove in a court of law, whereas with a DUI, either the defendant blew .08 or he didn't. Were I in your position, I may see this incident through the same lense, but I think that your previous experience is clouding your judgement in this case. There is a difference between an impulsive act of stupidity and an evil act.

 

[therealUT]

Wow, it is at this point that I certainly have to just say we "agree to disagree" because I cant fathom you thinking pointing a toy guy at somebody is worse than a DUI. Do you know how many innocent people are killed every year by drunk drivers? Let me know if your research reveals any instances where someone pointed a fake gun at another vehicle and it resulted in an innocent death.

Agree to disagree....

Do you know that studies prove that driving while talking on a cell phone is just as dangerous as driving drunk? Also, do you know that an average sized man can drink 4 drinks in 2 hours and that man will blow over a .08?

 

[therealUT]

No, but alcohol-related traffic fatalities in the US have averaged about 17,000 per year for the past decade or so. To put that number in perspective: that's two EVERY HOUR.

To really put that number in perspective, there are 295,000,000 American citizens! So, about 0.005762712% of American citizens. Americans that die as a result of gun crimes every year (and as a staunch defender of the 2nd Amendment I cannot believe I am actually posting this): 29,200.

 

[Lexvol]

To really put that number in perspective, there are 295,000,000 American citizens! So, about 0.005762712% of American citizens. Americans that die as a result of gun crimes every year (and as a staunch defender of the 2nd Amendment I cannot believe I am actually posting this): 29,200.

While I understand your point, it would be more relative to the "evil intent" in the case if the gun was not a toy.

 

[lawgator1]

[attachmentid=5700]

It seems that evil intent would be a lot harder to prove in a court of law, whereas with a DUI, either the defendant blew .08 or he didn't. Were I in your position, I may see this incident through the same lense, but I think that your previous experience is clouding your judgement in this case. There is a difference between an impulsive act of stupidity and an evil act.

The impulsive act argument is the best one I've seen here, Lex. That makes some sense. But for me to even begin to give the guy a chance to come back, assuming he did it (which I think is highly likely), then I'd want him to confess, cry like a baby and apologize profusely and volunterr to do some education to kids in junior high and middle school about being responsible with toys guns and avoiding the real thing.

You know, come to think of it, I guess what really got my back up about this was that it APPERS that he and his buddy immediately lied about it and continue to do so. If he did this, then I think he will eventually come clean. I'd like to see him do that before they have him dead to rights, so to speak, and do what's right.

If he didn't do it, and its a racist/incompetent cop as some have suggested, then I guess he finds himself between a rock and a hard place.

 

[Lexvol]

[attachmentid=5700]
The impulsive act argument is the best one I've seen here, Lex. That makes some sense. But for me to even begin to give the guy a chance to come back, assuming he did it (which I think is highly likely), then I'd want him to confess, cry like a baby and apologize profusely and volunterr to do some education to kids in junior high and middle school about being responsible with toys guns and avoiding the real thing.

You know, come to think of it, I guess what really got my back up about this was that it APPERS that he and his buddy immediately lied about it and continue to do so. If he did this, then I think he will eventually come clean. I'd like to see him do that before they have him dead to rights, so to speak, and do what's right.

If he didn't do it, and its a racist/incompetent cop as some have suggested, then I guess he finds himself between a rock and a hard place.

We are on the same wave length here. A mea culpa and a reduction in charges would be the most desired course of action if ....if the he is guilty as charged. It is now a waiting game.

 

[lawgator1]

We are on the same wave length here. A mea culpa and a reduction in charges would be the most desired course of action if ....if the he is guilty as charged. It is now a waiting game.

Only if it comes before they prove it.

 

[orange+white=heaven]

...then I'd want him to confess, cry like a baby and apologize profusely and volunterr to do some education to kids...

"Any reinstatement of Marsalous depends on his attitude and demonstration of accountability,"
-Coach Fulmer

..It appears that CPF is still looking for the same contrition you speak of LG.

By the way, there was also this in the article(Tennessean)...

"Fulmer had warned his players about having those pellet guns in the first place."

Is there something going on with other students regarding pellet guns?
If so, much is explained about Johnson's possession of said instrument of destruction....

 

[lawgator1]

"Any reinstatement of Marsalous depends on his attitude and demonstration of accountability,"
-Coach Fulmer

..It appears that CPF is still looking for the same contrition you speak of LG.

By the way, there was also this in the article(Tennessean)...

"Fulmer had warned his players about having those pellet guns in the first place."

Is there something going on with other students regarding pellet guns?
If so, much is explained about Johnson's possession of said instrument of destruction....

Interesting about Fulmer having warned them about the guns before. For one thing, it would seem to discount the theories of those who speculated that the gunmight have belonged to some kid that Johnson was visiting (what was that, some sort of mentoring thing? God, I hope not. Not much of a mentor, it would seem).

But why wouldn't that make the punishment more harsh? I mean, if they'd been warned and all? Odd.

 

[vader]

teacher voice on

It's not like he was an innocent by-stander Georgie. He CHOSE to have to deal with it.

teacher voice off

Hey, LIO, when I was a junior in high school, a student teacher from Freed started partying with me and some of my friends, and even bedded a couple of them. (not me) There was a freaky little love triangle with 17 year old boys. So sure, some dumb 17 year old boys are going they are cool because they are drinking with a 22 year old, fairly attractive girl. I know some 30 year old men who would feel the same way.

I know what it is like to be in front of a class. Sleeping with a student is a line a teacher should never cross. NO excuses.

 

[cd12]

Just throwing this out there..... more homicides are committed on impulse than planned attacks, its the planned ones that make the news. Just my experience, numbers could prove otherwise. I have seen more peoples lives ruined on impulse. Had they just taken the time to count to 10 (so to speak) they as well as their victims would be contributing members of society today! I truly feel that this incident was impulsive all the way around.

I am referring to the Johnson incident. Forgot which thread I was in!

 

[lawgator1]

Just throwing this out there..... more homicides are committed on impulse than planned attacks, its the planned ones that make the news. Just my experience, numbers could prove otherwise. I have seen more peoples lives ruined on impulse. Had they just taken the time to count to 10 (so to speak) they as well as their victims would be contributing members of society today! I truly feel that this incident was impulsive all the way around.

No doubt about any of that, dawg12. Thing is, I'm not sure that impulsivity at that level is excusable when one considers the potential consequences here. Reflects a deep character problem. Given his propenisyt to hold himself out as a "gangsta," one wonders whether he is just going to cause you Vols more heartache as time goes on, should he be permitted to stay.

 

[85Destiny]

Cooter, Johnson, Mitchell and Smith should all be gone. These behaviors and attitudes spread like cancer through the team and it has shown on the field. We need to demand that our players act a ceratin way or they are gone.

 

[cd12]

No doubt about any of that, dawg12. Thing is, I'm not sure that impulsivity at that level is excusable when one considers the potential consequences here. Reflects a deep character problem. Given his propenisyt to hold himself out as a "gangsta," one wonders whether he is just going to cause you Vols more heartache as time goes on, should he be permitted to stay.

He should be held accountable, too what extent I don't know. I have been burnt more than once by people who I thought deserved a second chance. I have put my reputation at stake and like I said, been burnt. So I am gun shy when it comes to such issues!

 

[therickbol]

I had not heard anything about Fulmer warning them about having pellet guns. If that is the case then that is difference. He was warned and blatantly disobeyed that warning.

 

[therealUT]

I had not heard anything about Fulmer warning them about having pellet guns. If that is the case then that is difference. He was warned and blatantly disobeyed that warning.

So, as a 19 year old, you need someone to warn you ahead of time not to drive around with a pellet gun in your car and not to threaten other drivers with said gun? You should really read the "Message to Garcia" post and learn a little something about personal responsibility and accountability.

 

[lawgator1]

Obviously, we board posters have no input. But let's pretend for a moment that we are all voting members of the coaching staff, each with an equal say. And let us also assume that Johnson turns out to, factually, have waived that gun like he is alleged to have done.

In that event, and as a coach, I make a motion that he be dismissed from the team but that he be allowed to petition to rejoin the team in the Spring on the following conditions: 1) No more incidents of this type. He keeps his record clean and he actively avoids trouble; 2) He apologizes to the officer; 3) He takes whatever sentence he is given, presumably probation for first time offense like this, and is exemplary in performing it; 4) He affirmatively demonstrates character by, for example, speaking to younger people about guns and the dangers associated with them, about respect and losing your cool, things of that nature.

Anybody second that motion under those circumstances?

 

[hatvol96]

Obviously, we board posters have no input. But let's pretend for a moment that we are all voting members of the coaching staff, each with an equal say. And let us also assume that Johnson turns out to, factually, have waived that gun like he is alleged to have done.

In that event, and as a coach, I make a motion that he be dismissed from the team but that he be allowed to petition to rejoin the team in the Spring on the following conditions: 1) No more incidents of this type. He keeps his record clean and he actively avoids trouble; 2) He apologizes to the officer; 3) He takes whatever sentence he is given, presumably probation for first time offense like this, and is exemplary in performing it; 4) He affirmatively demonstrates character by, for example, speaking to younger people about guns and the dangers associated with them, about respect and losing your cool, things of that nature.

Anybody second that motion under those circumstances?

Not here. Anything that would require an apology to a Putnam County Deputy would result in me having an uncontrolled vomiting fit.

 

[cd12]

Not here. Anything that would require an apology to a Putnam County Deputy would result in me having an uncontrolled vomiting fit.

A dose of pepto and a swig of mouthwash you be good as new!

 

[lawgator1]

Not here. Anything that would require an apology to a Putnam County Deputy would result in me having an uncontrolled vomiting fit.

hat, I am getting the idea that maybe you once got a ticket or something there that you did not think you deserved ????????

 

[hatvol96]

hat, I am getting the idea that maybe you once got a ticket or something there that you did not think you deserved ????????

No. I have no personal axe to grind. Just an opinion based on objective evidence.

 

[lawgator1]

No. I have no personal axe to grind. Just an opinion based on objective evidence.

Alright, let's hear it. I looked it up and they have 49 sworn officers, plus 55 civilian staff. So what's the objective evidence that either this one guy or the whole lot of them are boobery?

 

[hatvol96]

Alright, let's hear it. I looked it up and they have 49 sworn officers, plus 55 civilian staff. So what's the objective evidence that either this one guy or the whole lot of them are boobery?

First, the specific individual works for the TWRA. That is ipso facto evidence he is a tool. I'm not sure I've ever met anyone who has had dealings with that agency who would disagree. I've already referenced the dog shooting incident. There was also a study, I think by either the Office of Civil Rights or the NTSB, that placed Putnam County near the top of the list of Tennessee counties for disproportionate traffic stops for minorities.