Fulmer debate extravaganza (merged)

[knoxvols1]

where were all those top recruits his last 3-5 years??

Yeah, like Carnell Williams? Would have traded Houston and Riggs for him!
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[Big Orange 1]

I agree with second part that had Kiffen not left he would have turned it around but he wouldn't have been here 5 years regardless. Fulmer would not have turned it around and he would not have retired.
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Can you please PM me this coming Tuesday's Mega Millions winning numbers.

Thanks

 

[Ned Ray McWorkher]

^=Garbage.

Pimp just because we don't have an entire room of our homes dedicated as a shrine to a former coach, doesn't mean ANYONE hates him. I challenge you to find a single post where anyone said anything remotely close to hating CPF. We don't profess an intellectual superiority, we just don't have blinders on. You really need to come down off your own dip**** ideology about someone that was let go (rightly so) 3 1/2 years ago. He isn't coming back and if you think he should be back, read the poll on this forum. VN doesn't hate CPF, we just want to move on and get back to winning. Get the CPF chip off your shoulder and quit claiming that everyone HATES CPF. I personally take offense to that since my "hate" is saved for a few people and CPF ain't even close on that list.

There are quite a few FH's on this site. If you are not one then no offense should be taken. Now, look at how many times someone's intelligence has been insulted for nothing other than being a "Fulmerite". As far as Fulmer coming back, I have no posts hoping or asking for that to happen. I have no chips on my shoulder or anywhere else. But by all means........

 

[volfanecs]

There are quite a few FH's on this site. If you are not one then no offense should be taken. Now, look at how many times someone's intelligence has been insulted for nothing other than being a "Fulmerite". As far as Fulmer coming back, I have no posts hoping or asking for that to happen. I have no chips on my shoulder or anywhere else. But by all means........

I do hope he comes back. When you are 50+ like me, the statements like "the game has passed him by" are thinly veiled references to his age. We are still able to function, even if society or VN does not think so.

 

[82_VOL_83]

There are quite a few FH's on this site. If you are not one then no offense should be taken. Now, look at how many times someone's intelligence has been insulted for nothing other than being a "Fulmerite". As far as Fulmer coming back, I have no posts hoping or asking for that to happen. I have no chips on my shoulder or anywhere else. But by all means........

Once again, "by all means", please quote one poster on here that has said that they "hate" CPF. There is a vast difference between hating someone and not idolizing them. There is a vast difference in looking at a career as a whole and pointing out the bad with the good and only looking at a record and treating that as the be all end all of his career here. If you can't stand to have some of the facts that you want to ignore pointed out to you about CPF, then you really shouldn't be on this thread. Because, while there is a lot that I and pretty much everyone posting here are proud of about CPF, there are also some things that we aren't happy about with him. The condition of the football team when he was let go being chief among them.

Volfanecs, the statement that "the game has passed him by" is no reflection on us as adults. The game began passing CPF in the early 2000's. He wasn't adapting to the "new" SEC, he wasn't able to connect with the "new" player that was raised on Madden 1XXX instead of out playing in the backyard every night and dreaming of being like ...you insert the name, and he wasn't able to enforce discipline with his players. The game passing him by had more to do with an idea that I for one saw that said "I have been doing it like this for XX years and I am not going to change." Being inflexible has more to do with ego than it does age.

 

[volfanecs]

Once again, "by all means", please quote one poster on here that has said that they "hate" CPF. There is a vast difference between hating someone and not idolizing them. There is a vast difference in looking at a career as a whole and pointing out the bad with the good and only looking at a record and treating that as the be all end all of his career here. If you can't stand to have some of the facts that you want to ignore pointed out to you about CPF, then you really shouldn't be on this thread. Because, while there is a lot that I and pretty much everyone posting here are proud of about CPF, there are also some things that we aren't happy about with him. The condition of the football team when he was let go being chief among them.

Volfanecs, the statement that "the game has passed him by" is no reflection on us as adults. The game began passing CPF in the early 2000's. He wasn't adapting to the "new" SEC, he wasn't able to connect with the "new" player that was raised on Madden 1XXX instead of out playing in the backyard every night and dreaming of being like ...you insert the name, and he wasn't able to enforce discipline with his players. The game passing him by had more to do with an idea that I for one saw that said "I have been doing it like this for XX years and I am not going to change." Being inflexible has more to do with ego than it does age.

Well stated. However just as the word "hate" should not be used, isn't "idolize" just as bad when describing CPF fans?

 

[82_VOL_83]

Well stated. However just as the word "hate" should not be used, isn't "idolize" just as bad when describing CPF fans?

No, I think that idolize carries a different connotation than love/hate. At least to me it does. I feel you can idolize someone with "loving" them. Idolizing carries with it what the person has done, love carries with it who the person is. That's just how I see it.

 

[volfanecs]

No, I think that idolize carries a different connotation than love/hate. At least to me it does. I feel you can idolize someone with "loving" them. Idolizing carries with it what the person has done, love carries with it who the person is. That's just how I see it.

I do not idolize him, but the way he was fired......maybe it is just the idea of change. His replacement was a sharp drop in character. Hopefully; CDD starts winning and this thread fades away. We can then argue over the BCS proposed playoff structure.

 

[82_VOL_83]

I do not idolize him, but the way he was fired......maybe it is just the idea of change. His replacement was a sharp drop in character. Hopefully; CDD starts winning and this thread fades away. We can then argue over the BCS proposed playoff structure.

Hope that let's you know how much I agree with you on that. I don't like how he was let go either. I am beginning to think that the interim idea was a good one and letting CPF ride out the season. Don't know who we would have wound up with at the end of 09, but we wouldn't have had the debacle that was Spliffin.

 

[knoxvols1]

Hope that let's you know how much I agree with you on that. I don't like how he was let go either. I am beginning to think that the interim idea was a good one and letting CPF ride out the season. Don't know who we would have wound up with at the end of 09, but we wouldn't have had the debacle that was Spliffin.

There was no other way for him to go. He was asked to retire but he told them no so the only choice was for him to be fired!

 

[82_VOL_83]

There was no other way for him to go. He was asked to retire but he told them no so the only choice was for him to be fired!

Don't disagree with that either, however, the firing could have taken place after the end of the season and been handled better I think. I don't know all of the details on the letting go, I did know it was coming and had been told as much as 6 weeks or so earlier when it would be. Just didn't want to believe it at the time.

 

[GmanTN]

I still say Hambone did Phil a favor by announcing his termination during the season, it gave fans a chance to come out and support the coach who had spent the past 17 years coaching our team. If they had waited till season end then fans would have been like, if I had known Phil would not have been back next year as our coach I would have attended his last few games in support.

 

[Gramps]

I still say Hambone did Phil a favor by announcing his termination during the season, it gave fans a chance to come out and support the coach who had spent the past 17 years coaching our team. If they had waited till season end then fans would have been like, if I had known Phil would not have been back next year as our coach I would have attended his last few games in support.

I agree.

It gave Phil a chance to have a "farewell tour" and also gave the AD somewhat of a headstart on the coach search.

I think it was handled the way it should have been.

 

[2ironVol]

I do not idolize him, but the way he was fired......maybe it is just the idea of change. His replacement was a sharp drop in character. Hopefully; CDD starts winning and this thread fades away. We can then argue over the BCS proposed playoff structure.

Fulmer was FIRST asked to retire at the end of the season. He declined. He was asked again. He declinced again saying he wasn't going anywhere at the end of the season. Then he was told it wasn't his decision. Fulmer said " you're going to have to fire me". Hamilton said "OK". Then, a two hour discussion took place in which Fulmer basically begged Hamilton not to fire him as he felt he could get things back. Fulmer also WANTED the mid-week press conference with wife and disgruntled players in tow.

This string of events is often distorted by those that wanted Phillip to remain as coach. Everyone always says, "UT should have handled it differently". They tried. Fulmer wouldn't allow it.

 

[82_VOL_83]

Fulmer was FIRST asked to retire at the end of the season. He declined. He was asked again. He declinced again saying he wasn't going anywhere at the end of the season. Then he was told it wasn't his decision. Fulmer said " you're going to have to fire me". Hamilton said "OK". Then, a two hour discussion took place in which Fulmer basically begged Hamilton not to fire him as he felt he could get things back. Fulmer also WANTED the mid-week press conference with wife and disgruntled players in tow.

This string of events is often distorted by those that wanted Phillip to remain as coach. Everyone always says, "UT should have handled it differently". They tried. Fulmer wouldn't allow it.

2iron, I am nearly always in your corner, however, I think that a compromise could have been worked out that would have allowed the annoucement to come at seasons end and allowed for "more negotiation" for how (not if) the turnover was going to be handled. I wish I had been a fly on the wall in the CPF/MH meetings. After having seen how MH handled himself at the end of his tenure, I can begin to give CPF some benefit of doubt on the firing. I think MH's ego was almost as big as CPF's. And seeing as one was boss and the other bigger in the eyes of the fans than the boss, that was a dangerous combination. Sounds very much like the whole thing came to a head and was handled in about 2 hours. There should have been a cooling down period for both of them.

 

[GmanTN]

Phil was not going to leave his position without it being epic no matter how it was handled and that is the truth. As stated earlier Phil was offered the chance to retire but he wasn't having nothing to do with that notion. Phil looked at it the only way he felt he could and that was if you want rid of me you are going to have to fire me.

 

[volfanecs]

Fulmer was FIRST asked to retire at the end of the season. He declined. He was asked again. He declinced again saying he wasn't going anywhere at the end of the season. Then he was told it wasn't his decision. Fulmer said " you're going to have to fire me". Hamilton said "OK". Then, a two hour discussion took place in which Fulmer basically begged Hamilton not to fire him as he felt he could get things back. Fulmer also WANTED the mid-week press conference with wife and disgruntled players in tow.

This string of events is often distorted by those that wanted Phillip to remain as coach. Everyone always says, "UT should have handled it differently". They tried. Fulmer wouldn't allow it.

Had you been CPF, with all the years as a player and a coach, would you fight for your job?

 

[GmanTN]

Had you been CPF, with all the years as a player and a coach, would you fight for your job?

Once your employer tells you that you have option 1: retire at the end of the season and go out with your pride and dignity or option:2 you will leave me with no other choice than to fire you

You pretty much have exhausted any chance of fighting for your job, the decision had been made and it was up to Phil to decide how he wanted it handled.

For a man who claims to have so much love for the university and what it stands for, sure did a lousy job by forcing the issue and bringing shame on the university.

With Phil being here for so many years it took more than Hamilton to fire Phil. The board I am sure had to vote on it as well.

 

[82_VOL_83]

Once your employer tells you that you have option 1: retire at the end of the season and go out with your pride and dignity or option:2 you will leave me with no other choice than to fire you

You pretty much have exhausted any chance of fighting for your job, the decision had been made and it was up to Phil to decide how he wanted it handled.

For a man who claims to have so much love for the university and what it stands for, sure did a lousy job by forcing the issue and bringing shame on the university.

With Phil being here for so many years i took more than Hamilton to fire Phil. The board I am sure had to vote on it as well.

It isn't clear to me that he was given 2) until he said no to 1). The way 2iron makes it sould is he was asked to retire and THEN when he said no they fired him. All I am saying is that it could have been approached differently.

 

[GmanTN]

It isn't clear to me that he was given 2) until he said no to 1). The way 2iron makes it sould is he was asked to retire and THEN when he said no they fired him. All I am saying is that it could have been approached differently.

Hamilton had to answer to the board just like Hart has to whenever a coaching change is needed. Hamilton had neither the power or the guts to do it on his own without the boards blessing.

 

[2ironVol]

Had you been CPF, with all the years as a player and a coach, would you fight for your job?

Nope. Then again, I am not the narcissist Phillip is. I would like to believe I would have went out with some class like Lloyd Carr did at Michigan and retire gracefully.

 

[2ironVol]

Let me clear some things up for our "misinformed" crowd. Hamilton DID NOT make the decision to fire Phillip. He facililtated the decision made by the BOTs, who as a group, knew it was time for Phillip to go and wanted him to retire. Fulmer's selfish stance did not allow this to happen. These idiotic posts about Hamilton firing Fulmer are just that, idiotic.

 

[Gramps]

Had you been CPF, with all the years as a player and a coach, would you fight for your job?

Phil should have been fighting for his job by putting a better product on the field.

2005-2008 his overall record was 29-21 and 17-15 in the SEC with TN getting blown out in games.
That is why Fulmer was fired. He was no longer getting the job done. The record speaks for itself.

 

[82_VOL_83]

Let me clear some things up for our "misinformed" crowd. Hamilton DID NOT make the decision to fire Phillip. He facililtated the decision made by the BOTs, who as a group, knew it was time for Phillip to go and wanted him to retire. Fulmer's selfish stance did not allow this to happen. These idiotic posts about Hamilton firing Fulmer are just that, idiotic.

I, for one, would never imply or even think that MH fired him without the board's approval or direction. HOWEVER, he IS the one that fired him. It probably went something like:

Board: CPF has to go. Make it happen.
MH: Oh crap, why me.
Board: Cause he works for you.
MH: But, what if he says NO?
Board: It's your job, make it happen.

MH: CPF, would you please consider stepping down?
CPF: F you.
MH: Please CPF, I will get in trouble if you don't.
CPF: F you.
MH: (Oh crap I am going to have to fire him) OK, you're fired.
CPF: WHAT?
MH: You're fired?
CPF: Do you really think you are big enough to do this?
MH: Well the board told me too.

The rest is history. I think CPF fought for his job and I think MH was too chicken *poop* to do anything but hide behind a door and let him go.

 

[2ironVol]

I, for one, would never imply or even think that MH fired him without the board's approval or direction. HOWEVER, he IS the one that fired him. It probably went something like:

Board: CPF has to go. Make it happen.
MH: Oh crap, why me.
Board: Cause he works for you.
MH: But, what if he says NO?
Board: It's your job, make it happen.

MH: CPF, would you please consider stepping down?
CPF: F you.
MH: Please CPF, I will get in trouble if you don't.
CPF: F you.
MH: (Oh crap I am going to have to fire him) OK, you're fired.
CPF: WHAT?
MH: You're fired?
CPF: Do you really think you are big enough to do this?
MH: Well the board told me too.

The rest is history. I think CPF fought for his job and I think MH was too chicken *poop* to do anything but hide behind a door and let him go.

Do you know Mike Hamilton personally? The reason I ask is because you have made some comments about his character that are simply not true in any regard. I can tell you he has plenty of guts AND he is no chicken sh**