Fulmer debate extravaganza (merged)

Status
Not open for further replies.
#1,001
#1,001
utmba93 said:
Right. I doubt anyone else will post in this thread now that the argument is over.:)

'Mediocrity' is a term that depends upon one's definition (highly subjective). NegaVols have defined football as achieving 'mediocre' results. If 12th nationally is 'mediocre' then you would be correct on that definition of mediocrity.


I've said before, from my vantage point (my definition of mediocrity), that both teams have done better than mediocre.

And, again, the basketball team comparison simply highlights differences in expectations.

I could say I expect more... I can't believe others don't expect more... yadda yadda yadda, but that will not change the outcomes. Expectations are ALL talk (and highly subjective). Results are ALL action (and more objective). Focusing on results instead of expectations would be the first step away from either blind homerism or blind criticism.

Just trying to helps others see reality through the orange shades now surrounding UT basketball... again.
Click to expand...
you can't have it both ways. Expectations do matter, wether or not you want to acknowledge it or not, and they are different for the football and basketball program. when you take in to account the entire picture, results and expectations and how you got where you wound up, it's not unreasonable to draw the conclusion i and many others have drawn in relation to both programs.

you simply ignore it. for my money, i'd have more credence in the opinions of those that actually take all things in to considerationg than those that simply say 'it is what it is, and that's it' or 12=12 nonsense.

i don't think i've been blind in my criticism's in the least, in fact, i'd tell you i was one that had become more critical over the past two years based on what has happened. prior to the 05 season i was one of the folks that couldn't believe that anyone seriously wanted CPF fired. i had criticisms, but up to that point the worst thing he had done is have an 8 win season.....things have changed over the last 4 years.

and everything.....expectations, results, how things happened, coaching changes, off field problems, bad losses, losing seasons, etc...are all part of the picture that also includes two bowl wins, and two sec title game losses and 3 wins against GA.

it all happened, and none of it can be excluded. but either way, all in the same picture, it spells mediocre.

the difference, that you apparently just refuse to see, is the football program is going thru this just after one of the most successful runs in this program's history, thus the direction is down.

the basketball team, to the contrary, is in the middle of one of it's best runs as a program after one of the worst decades in TN basketball history, thus going up.

so, yes, this argument is over. the only reason it continues is your need to poke and prod and get these arguments started.
 
#1,004
#1,004
rexvol said:
do you have any idea what you're talking about?
Click to expand...

I'm just saying winning the national championship says a lot more about Phil Fulmer's mediocrity than does a loss to Vanderbilt.

National championships at TN happen quite a few times less than do losses to Vandy.
 
#1,005
#1,005
rexvol said:
we've had quite a few medicore coaches on the hill, you have to look at the Vanderbilt loss with some degree of historical perspective.
Click to expand...

it's your definition so I guess you are free to massage it however you want.
 
#1,007
#1,007
jakez4ut said:
12=12 nonsense.
Click to expand...

Jake, we've been through all of this before.

It gets harder and harder to post when people argue with that equality. What does 12 equal if not 12?

I keep thinking... if only it were a prime number this might make more sense (e.g. 11=11 or 13=13). Is it the properties of the number 12 that make it complex?:)
 
#1,009
#1,009
utmba93 said:
Jake, we've been through all of this before.

It gets harder and harder to post when people argue with that equality. What does 12 equal if not 12?

I keep thinking... if only it were a prime number this might make more sense (e.g. 11=11 or 13=13). Is it the properties of the number 12 that make it complex?:)
Click to expand...
see, this is what i'm talking about. it's your inablity to get past the literal that keeps you down. i now see that unless it's spelled out for you in black and white an requires zero thought or analysis, it's not worth bringing up.

if you seriously cannot distinguish the difference between the two, that's on you, and just because you don't believe there is a difference, it doesn't make it any less true.:thumbsup:
 
#1,010
#1,010
utmba93 said:
The term lacks enough precision to have any meaningful debate when someone uses it... and it is thus overused.
Click to expand...
or you can't debate something that actually requires some thought process and analysis, come up w/your own opinion and state it, clearly.

now i know why it's easier for you to say 12=12.
 
#1,011
#1,011
jakez4ut said:
see, this is what i'm talking about. it's your inablity to get past the literal that keeps you down. i now see that unless it's spelled out for you in black and white an requires zero thought or analysis, it's not worth bringing up.

if you seriously cannot distinguish the difference between the two, that's on you, and just because you don't believe there is a difference, it doesn't make it any less true.:thumbsup:
Click to expand...

Don't make it personal. It's the merits of my argument that favor being literal.

That's usually the higher ground you know. Reality trumps perception. Objective trumps subjective... etc.

There is no difference between 12 and 12 (that's mathmatical).
 
#1,013
#1,013
jakez4ut said:
or you can't debate something that actually requires some thought process and analysis, come up w/your own opinion and state it, clearly.

now i know why it's easier for you to say 12=12.
Click to expand...

That is the point of the position. It's much harder for you to argue that 12 doesn't equal 12. It takes a lot intellectual capacity to disprove that.

No one has done it yet.
 
#1,014
#1,014
utmba93 said:
Don't make it personal. It's the merits of my argument that favor being literal.

That's usually the higher ground you know. Reality trumps perception. Objective trumps subjective... etc.

There is no difference between 12 and 12 (that's mathmatical).
Click to expand...
not personal, i just now know that every thing is equal in your world. either it is or it isn't. no room for development of thought, and forming an opinion.

it is what it is. 12=12. it's math.

got it.

and there is something subjective about you considering your point of view is the ONLY subjective view out there? ironic.
 
#1,015
#1,015
utmba93 said:
That is the point of the position. It's much harder for you to argue that 12 doesn't equal 12. It takes a lot intellectual capacity to disprove that.

No one has done it yet.
Click to expand...
havent' done that once.

my whole position is the differences in the two programs based on expectations.

and you've just decided expectations don't matter.

12=12. and you're argument is made, void of any analytical thought or opinion.

your retrot is "it's math".

that's awesome.
 
#1,016
#1,016
utmba93 said:
It's probably beyond your comprehesion, but to me, UT and UNC are institutions of higher education first (and neither are professional sports organizations). Since I have affliations with both in that role (have you any experience with either in that capacity?), I have no problem with being a Vols football fan and a Tar Heels basketball fan. Everyone can't be like you. Get over yourself. We don't want to be.

Most importantly, why would I or anyone else (outside the dog you kick every night) ever seek your approval for whatever team I (we) choose to support?
Click to expand...
all the needless rhetoric aside, why would you not side with UNC football and UT basketball? That's a bit odd to me.

And you're correct, I have no affilitation with either as a institution of higher learning, but I have no problem with frontrunning (I'm a Vol, period), so I'm not left in the place you apparently are: a defensive position about whom you're rooting for.

While you responded about not caring, the response itself implies you do, or was that some more stuff beyond my level of comprehension? We can't all have incredible educations like yourself.
 
#1,017
#1,017
jakez4ut said:
not personal, i just now know that every thing is equal in your world. either it is or it isn't. no room for development of thought, and forming an opinion.

it is what it is. 12=12. it's math.

got it.

and there is something subjective about you considering your point of view is the ONLY subjective view out there? ironic.
Click to expand...

12=12 is not subjective.
 
#1,018
#1,018
utmba93 said:
12=12 is not subjective.
Click to expand...
it is when you try to cram that down our throats as the only realistic way to view things for the basketball and football programs, as dictated by you.

but, literally, no, it's not. it's math. :eek:k:
 
#1,019
#1,019
jakez4ut said:
havent' done that once.

my whole position is the differences in the two programs based on expectations.

and you've just decided expectations don't matter.

12=12. and you're argument is made, void of any analytical thought or opinion.

your retrot is "it's math".

that's awesome.
Click to expand...
first, the basketball team did not finish twelfth in some mythical final poll. Second, forget the talk of where they finished. One has repeatedly improved over the past 3 seasons, the other has repeatedly declined over the last 9.

I find our basketball results unacceptable, but I have a sincere belief that we are headed up and can live with a coach taking us that direction. Football, nobody can realistically argue that we're headed up, unless using 05 as their base of reference, which is incriminating in and of itself.
 
#1,020
#1,020
mba, let me ask you another question.......can you give me ANY OTHER reason aside from 12=12 as to why the football program's results vs. the basketball programs resutls should be considered equal?
 
#1,021
#1,021
BigPapaVol said:
all the needless rhetoric aside, why would you not side with UNC football and UT basketball? That's a bit odd to me.

And you're correct, I have no affilitation with either as a institution of higher learning, but I have no problem with frontrunning (I'm a Vol, period), so I'm not left in the place you apparently are: a defensive position about whom you're rooting for.

While you responded about not caring, the response itself implies you do, or was that some more stuff beyond my level of comprehension? We can't all have incredible educations like yourself.
Click to expand...

If you are a Vol period and you do have an education, then why haven't you attended the university?
 
#1,023
#1,023
jakez4ut said:
mba, let me ask you another question.......can you give me ANY OTHER reason aside from 12=12 as to why the football program's results vs. the basketball programs resutls should be considered equal?
Click to expand...

I have throughout this thread and others. Check my posts. I don't have time to retype it all here... yet again.
 
#1,025
#1,025
BigPapaVol said:
unfortunately, final basketball polls are absolutely worthless, but I'm certain that our mens basketball team finished well ahead of 12th.

How's that help this little fantasy comparison of yours?
Click to expand...

We finished 7th in the USA Today poll, and 5th in the AP.
 
New posts
Status
Not open for further replies.

VN Store



Back
Top