Fulmer debate extravaganza (merged)

[GmanTN]

Alabama HC's

1997-2000 Mike Dubose
2001-2001 Dennis Franchione
2003-2006 Mike Shula
2006 Joe Kines

Would hardly call any of these coaches world beaters

 

[vol_in_ar]

Alabama HC's

1997-2000 Mike Dubose
2001-2001 Dennis Franchione
2003-2006 Mike Shula
2006 Joe Kines

Would hardly call any of these coaches world beaters

i hope we stop at 3 in

Kiffin
Dooley
Jones

 

[whobethis16]

No one is spinning anything nor is anyone attempting to belittle Phil, it was a fact. Look at some of the head coaches during the time Phil was whipping up on Bama and look what happened to Phil once Saban arrived 0-2.

A win over Bama is a win over Bama. If next year, the Vols win because all of the starting lineup for Bama has the flu, you won't downplay it then.

New kid on the block. Look at how successful a lot of coaches were when they first started: Fulmer, Meyers, Saban. Look what happened after a few years to Meyers, in this case Fulmer (for you all bashing his accomplishments). Look at basketball and Pearl. People just haven't had a good chance to figure them out yet, but it will happen. Look for that to happen with Jones. However, once he gets figured out, people will start to want him canned as well.

 

[volfanecs]

No one is spinning anything nor is anyone attempting to belittle Phil, it was a fact. Look at some of the head coaches during the time Phil was whipping up on Bama and look what happened to Phil once Saban arrived 0-2.

It was a fact he won the NC, but there are many posters who point to the "luck" he had getting there. Anything he ever done, he did not do. It was all luck. GmanTN; no one is spinning anything, c'mon now. This thread makes me dizzy with spin.

 

[hohenfelsvol]

Foley got lucky. His promotion of Zook about got him canned. Their fan base was livid with his 8 win seasons. Zook was was really the father of the "fire(insert coach's name).com" with the fireronzook.com. It was fun to watch their fan base waller in their own poop even though it was only for a couple of years.

BS he got lucky. You're just bitter.

 

[hohenfelsvol]

Well, if you're going to include wins over teams not even ranked in the top-20 as something to celebrate, then all of these wins are either comparable or better or much better:

2003
Beat 17th ranked Florida @ Florida
Beat Alabama @ Alabama
Beat 6th ranked Miami @ Miami
(Oh yeah, and beat South Carolina)

2004
Beat 11th ranked Florida
Beat 3rd ranked Georgia @ Georgia
Beat Alabama
Beat Texas A&M in Cotton Bowl in Texas
(Oh yeah, and beat South Carolina)

2005
Beat 4th ranked LSU @ LSU

2006
Beat 9th ranked Cal
Beat 10th ranked Georgia
Beat Alabama
(Oh yeah, and beat South Carolina)

2007
Beat a Georgia team that would finish 2nd in the nation
Beat 18th ranked Wisconsin
(Oh yeah, and beat South Carolina)

Wins in the Swamp, Between the Hedges, in Death Valley, at Alabama, against A&M in Dallas, and ending a long winning streak at Miami, with annual wins over top-20 opponents in 5 out of 6 years. Something no Tennessee coach after Fulmer has achieved in a single year since his firing.

Very well done. I too was happy with those wins but unfortunately he won big games in those years but also lost alot he should have won but was out coached. He is a good coach, just not a great coach any longer. Got left behind.

Oh yea, I read through your great post and wonder why you left out all the BCS bowls we played in during that period. A BCS-less period that spanned eight of his last years coaching. I'm patient, but not that patient.

 

[GmanTN]

A win over Bama is a win over Bama. If next year, the Vols win because all of the starting lineup for Bama has the flu, you won't downplay it then.

New kid on the block. Look at how successful a lot of coaches were when they first started: Fulmer, Meyers, Saban. Look what happened after a few years to Meyers, in this case Fulmer (for you all bashing his accomplishments). Look at basketball and Pearl. People just haven't had a good chance to figure them out yet, but it will happen. Look for that to happen with Jones. However, once he gets figured out, people will start to want him canned as well.

It was a fact he won the NC, but there are many posters who point to the "luck" he had getting there. Anything he ever done, he did not do. It was all luck. GmanTN; no one is spinning anything, c'mon now. This thread makes me dizzy with spin.

Easy question for you 2 to answer which will give insight on many things at many levels.

Saban
Miles
Spurrier
Muschamp
Richt

How well do you think Phil would do recruiting against these coaches and what would his record be?

A- Would he go 5-0
B- Would he go 4-1
C- Would he go 3-2
D- Would he go 2-3
E- Would he go 1-4
F- Would he go 0-5

 

[whobethis16]

Easy question for you 2 to answer which will give insight on many things at many levels.

Saban
Miles
Spurrier
Muschamp
Richt

How well do you think Phil would do recruiting against these coaches and what would his record be?

A- Would he go 5-0
B- Would he go 4-1
C- Would he go 3-2
D- Would he go 2-3
E- Would he go 1-4
F- Would he go 0-5

Keep in mind, this is based on if he had never been fired. And also keep in mind that I've never once said I wanted him back (though I wouldn't be opposed) but rather he never should've been fired to begin with. However it is what it is at this point.

I honestly believe he would go 3-2. He always had a knack of beating Richt when he wasn't supposed to, Spurrier at USC is much different than he was at Florida, and he'd take out one of the others, most likely Muschamp or Miles.

If he was rehired this year, I'd say at best 2-3 this time around.

 

[whobethis16]

Very well done. I too was happy with those wins but unfortunately he won big games in those years but also lost alot he should have won but was out coached. He is a good coach, just not a great coach any longer. Got left behind.

Oh yea, I read through your great post and wonder why you left out all the BCS bowls we played in during that period. A BCS-less period that spanned eight of his last years coaching. I'm patient, but not that patient.

Part of that is due to the BS that rewards teams for not playing in the conference championship. If the winner of the SECCG goes to the NC, then the loser should play in the Sugar Bowl. That would've put the 07 Vols in there with, most likely, a win. And if the 04 BCS was right, there too.

 

[GmanTN]

Keep in mind, this is based on if he had never been fired. And also keep in mind that I've never once said I wanted him back (though I wouldn't be opposed) but rather he never should've been fired to begin with. However it is what it is at this point.

I honestly believe he would go 3-2. He always had a knack of beating Richt when he wasn't supposed to, Spurrier at USC is much different than he was at Florida, and he'd take out one of the others, most likely Muschamp or Miles.

If he was rehired this year, I'd say at best 2-3 this time around.

Richt is the only one I give Phil a chance in beating, Florida always had his number, Spurrier knows how to get to Phil, Miles recruits to much talent and Saban well we know the answer to that.

Phil had a great career, he had his flaws but love for the university was never one of them. I can't see Phil out recruiting any of these coaches and when Phil was on his run that was his advantage. Once the borders got closed the writing was on the wall. During Phils glory days we sent more players to the NFL than anyother SEC team and that was why he was able to win as many games as he did. Once the playing field was leveled and it came down to coaching, Phil was in a mis match.

 

[whobethis16]

Richt is the only one I give Phil a chance in beating, Florida always had his number, Spurrier knows how to get to Phil, Miles recruits to much talent and Saban well we know the answer to that.

Phil had a great career, he had his flaws but love for the university was never one of them. I can't see Phil out recruiting any of these coaches and when Phil was on his run that was his advantage. Once the borders got closed the writing was on the wall. During Phils glory days we sent more players to the NFL than anyother SEC team and that was why he was able to win as many games as he did. Once the playing field was leveled and it came down to coaching, Phil was in a mis match.

Fulmer went 2-2 against Spurrier the last 4 years, 3-2 the last 5 times. He also had a top 5 class his last one. Recruiting and all wasn't that bad. **** happened regarding some of those players screwing up, but he still brought in a top 5 class.

3-5 vs Richt.

I think people who say Phil wouldn't have done any better base it on if he inherited the talent that was the result of his firing and Kiffin leaving. I'll agree to that, but even with Boyd and Chavis here, Tennessee beats USC and UGA this year, Kentucky last year, LSU in 2010. Things would've been so much better if he hadn't been let go, much less let go how he was.

 

[hohenfelsvol]

Part of that is due to the BS that rewards teams for not playing in the conference championship. If the winner of the SECCG goes to the NC, then the loser should play in the Sugar Bowl. That would've put the 07 Vols in there with, most likely, a win. And if the 04 BCS was right, there too.

No it wouldn't have. Our record in 07 was not great. We lost to Cal 45-31, UF 59-20 ouch, and Alabama 41-17 ouch during the regular season by alot in each game. We played a close LSU in a championship game but did not deserve a BCS bowl. We backed into that SECG because everyone else had a bad year too.

 

[whobethis16]

Richt is the only one I give Phil a chance in beating, Florida always had his number, Spurrier knows how to get to Phil, Miles recruits to much talent and Saban well we know the answer to that.

Phil had a great career, he had his flaws but love for the university was never one of them. I can't see Phil out recruiting any of these coaches and when Phil was on his run that was his advantage. Once the borders got closed the writing was on the wall. During Phils glory days we sent more players to the NFL than anyother SEC team and that was why he was able to win as many games as he did. Once the playing field was leveled and it came down to coaching, Phil was in a mis match.

1-2 against Miles, but should've been 2-1 if the refs hadn't missed an obvious fumble by Russell, but it happens.

 

[hohenfelsvol]

1-2 against Miles, but should've been 2-1 if the refs hadn't missed an obvious fumble by Russell, but it happens.

Too many IF's in the later years for Phil. Too many games that he had to say we were one, two, three plays away from winning. I'm so damn tired of the IF argument.

 

[whobethis16]

No it wouldn't have. Our record in 07 was not great. We lost to Cal 45-31, UF 59-20 ouch, and Alabama 41-17 ouch during the regular season by alot in each game. We played a close LSU in a championship game but did not deserve a BCS bowl. We backed into that SECG because everyone else had a bad year too.

Quit saying backed in, unless you agree that the 85 Vols backed into that championship, Bama backed into the big one this year, etc. I've never known a fanbase that complains this much about how they made it.

The argument regarding that is if you lose the SECCG, you are the 2nd best team in the conference, much like losing the gold medal game in the Olympics. Therefore, if the Sugar Bowl takes the best SEC team, but that team plays for the NC, then you take the SECCG runner up. Not a team that didn't play for the conference championship. Same goes for the NC. If you don't win your conference, you shouldn't play for the NC.

 

[EBFVOL]

Too many IF's in the later years for Phil. Too many games that he had to say we were one, two, three plays away from winning. I'm so damn tired of the IF argument.

Here's a definite for you.. He wouldn't have screwed us like Kiffin and IS a better coach than Dooley but again this is a long dead horse that needs to be out to pasture. :horse:

 

[whobethis16]

Too many IF's in the later years for Phil. Too many games that he had to say we were one, two, three plays away from winning. I'm so damn tired of the IF argument.

And what about now? If the refs didn't blow it in the MCB, if Hunter wasn't injured, if we had a defense, etc. I'd take an SECCG appearance every 3 years, an average of 9 wins a season, etc. over the crap that has happened since firing Fulmer. Grass is always greener.

 

[hohenfelsvol]

Quit saying backed in, unless you agree that the 85 Vols backed into that championship, Bama backed into the big one this year, etc. I've never known a fanbase that complains this much about how they made it.

The argument regarding that is if you lose the SECCG, you are the 2nd best team in the conference, much like losing the gold medal game in the Olympics. Therefore, if the Sugar Bowl takes the best SEC team, but that team plays for the NC, then you take the SECCG runner up. Not a team that didn't play for the conference championship. Same goes for the NC. If you don't win your conference, you shouldn't play for the NC.

They backed into the SECG. Got lucky. Hit the lotto. Picked a four leaf clover. Caught a leprechaun.

So a 9-4 team should go to a BCS bowl? I do not share your opinion that a second place team should go to a BCS game if their records don't warrant it. Definitely not a four loss team from any conference to any BCS bowl.

 

[hohenfelsvol]

And what about now? If the refs didn't blow it in the MCB, if Hunter wasn't injured, if we had a defense, etc. I'd take an SECCG appearance every 3 years, an average of 9 wins a season, etc. over the crap that has happened since firing Fulmer. Grass is always greener.

Fulmer was reason the grass died.

 

[hohenfelsvol]

Here's a definite for you.. He wouldn't have screwed us like Kiffin and IS a better coach than Dooley but again this is a long dead horse that needs to be out to pasture. :horse:

The whole thread to beating a dead horse.

 

[whobethis16]

They backed into the SECG. Got lucky. Hit the lotto. Picked a four leaf clover. Caught a leprechaun.

So a 9-4 team should go to a BCS bowl? I do not share your opinion that a second place team should go to a BCS game if their records don't warrant it. Definitely not a four loss team from any conference to any BCS bowl.

What about the team that didn't win, much less didn't even play for, the conference championship? They deserve a BCS bowl, or the NC? That's the problem right there. Yeah, they were 9-4, but really 9-3 because they had the extra game. Losing the SECCG should not penalize you. Would you rather go 10-2, not play for the SECCG, and go to the Sugar Bowl? THAT'S backing into it.

You'd be whining if they won the SEC that year, went to the Sugar Bowl and lost because they "backed into it." Holy Hell, things happen, upsets happen. At the end of the day, Tennessee was 6-2 in the SEC and beat UGA, putting them in.

 

[JMSqb11]

They backed into the SECG. Got lucky. Hit the lotto. Picked a four leaf clover. Caught a leprechaun.

So a 9-4 team should go to a BCS bowl? I do not share your opinion that a second place team should go to a BCS game if their records don't warrant it. Definitely not a four loss team from any conference to any BCS bowl.

An 8-4 FSU team went a few years back.

 

[hohenfelsvol]

What about the team that didn't win, much less didn't even play for, the conference championship? They deserve a BCS bowl, or the NC? That's the problem right there. Yeah, they were 9-4, but really 9-3 because they had the extra game. Losing the SECCG should not penalize you. Would you rather go 10-2, not play for the SECCG, and go to the Sugar Bowl? THAT'S backing into it.

You'd be whining if they won the SEC that year, went to the Sugar Bowl and lost because they "backed into it." Holy Hell, things happen, upsets happen. At the end of the day, Tennessee was 6-2 in the SEC and beat UGA, putting them in.

Drew the short straw. Hit the jackpot. Found the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. Tripped over the bag of pixie dust.

Just teasin'. Don't bust a blood vessel. Jeez.

 

[volfanecs]

Easy question for you 2 to answer which will give insight on many things at many levels.

Saban
Miles
Spurrier
Muschamp
Richt

How well do you think Phil would do recruiting against these coaches and what would his record be?

A- Would he go 5-0
B- Would he go 4-1
C- Would he go 3-2
D- Would he go 2-3
E- Would he go 1-4
F- Would he go 0-5

He made Tennessee a football powerhouse. I think he would have done quite well.

 

[NashVol11]

A win over Bama is a win over Bama.

Not at all.

If next year, the Vols win because all of the starting lineup for Bama has the flu, you won't downplay it then.

Saban's second team is probably better than the ones Fulmer beat.

New kid on the block. Look at how successful a lot of coaches were when they first started: Fulmer, Meyers, Saban.

2/3 of them have 12 wins this season and one is unemployed. Guess who it is?

Look what happened after a few years to Meyers,

12-1, 12-1, heart issues, 12-0?

Look at basketball and Pearl.

He lied to the NCAA? I have no idea how you're trying to connect these...

People just haven't had a good chance to figure them out yet, but it will happen.

Really? You think Saban is going to randomly start going 5-7 because people "figure him out?"

Look for that to happen with Jones. However, once he gets figured out, people will start to want him canned as well.

Jones already "got figured out" at Cincinnati.