Fulmer debate extravaganza (merged)

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#1,702
#1,702
Ohio Vol said:
The question I continue to ask (without a satisfactory answer) is this.

We, as fans, expect multiple conference championships, nothing but 10+ win seasons, top-5 recruiting classes, etc. And yet we tell the Big Ten and Pac-10 fans that the SEC is tops because of the number of top-level teams, specifically in the East.

Can we really have it both ways? If the conference is as strong as we like to talk about, then it stands to reason that team success will inherently be more sparse than if UT were in another conference. And isn't something like an 8-4 or 9-3 record not a case of the sky falling, but an example of the depth and parity within this conference?
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Exactly.

And as an example, let's examine our records vs. our two biggest opponents from 1990-1997 and 2000-2007.

1990-1997:

vs. Florida: 2-6
vs. Alabama: 4-4

2000-2007:

vs. Florida: 3-5
vs. Alabama: 5-3

So we've actually done slightly better in the past 8 years against what we consider to be the two must wins in any given year. So what's the difference? It should be pretty obvious.

1990-1997:

vs. Georgia: 6-0
vs. Auburn: 3-0-1
vs. LSU: 2-0

2000-2007:

vs. Georgia: 3-5
vs. Auburn: 0-3
vs. LSU: 2-4

As much as we like to brag about how unstoppable our conference is, in the 1990s, when we were at our apex, the SEC certainly was nothing like what it is today. The very reasons SEC fans criticize the Big 10 and the Pac-10, that they only ever have 2 or 3 teams that are any good, was certainly the case with the SEC in the 1990s. For the most part, it was that conference that Alabama, Florida, and Tennessee were in. And there wasn't anything else to it.

Now we have Georgia, Auburn, and LSU consistently fielding good teams. Arkansas was pretty good under Nutt. South Carolina, Kentucky, and Mississippi State usually manage to shake things up once in a while. For God's sake, Vanderbilt has beaten Tennessee and Georgia within the last 3 years.

I think the fact that we remain competitive in what is a much tougher conference than what we played in 10 years ago is a testament to our staying power, not our perceived mediocrity. The problem is we can't break the Georgia Dome curse, I suppose.
 
#1,703
#1,703
rexvol said:
the notion that the Nation is satisfied with 8 wins is beyond me.
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Where did it say that anyone would be satisfied with 8 wins? And it's not like we've been winning 8 games every year either. We've won less than 9 games about 4 times in the past 20+ years.
 
#1,704
#1,704
Fulmer needs to go .500 or better against the top coaches in the SEC next year. Last year, Fulmer's Vols were 1-3 against the top 4(Saban, Meyer, Miles, and Richt). The next 2 years, Fulmer matches up with Saban, Meyer, Richt, and Tuberville. If he posts a losing record against these coaches, most people will assume that he is not capable of beating the best coaches in the SEC.
 
#1,705
#1,705
GoBigOrange86 said:
As much as we like to brag about how unstoppable our conference is, in the 1990s, when we were at our apex, the SEC certainly was nothing like what it is today.
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I'd argue that point. The SEC in the 1990s was really not that far from what it is today.
 
#1,706
#1,706
GAVol said:
I'd argue that point:

Florida is about the same as they were in the 90s. Alabama was a lot better in the 90s.
Auburn is about the same
Georgia is a ton better than they were in the mid 90s, but was actually pretty not far from what they are now in the late 90s.
Mississippi State was much better in the 90s.
LSU is definitely better now.
Kentucky is a little better now.
SC is a little better now.
Vandy is about the same.
Ole Miss is about the same.
Arkansas is about the same.
SC is a little better now.
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:blink:
 
#1,709
#1,709
sk vol said:
Fulmer needs to go .500 or better against the top coaches in the SEC next year. Last year, Fulmer's Vols were 1-3 against the top 4(Saban, Meyer, Miles, and Richt). The next 2 years, Fulmer matches up with Saban, Meyer, Richt, and Tuberville. If he posts a losing record against these coaches, most people will assume that he is not capable of beating the best coaches in the SEC.
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Most people already assume that. Just look at his overall record against those coaches and you'll see why.
 
#1,710
#1,710
GAVol said:
Where did it say that anyone would be satisfied with 8 wins? And it's not like we've been winning 8 games every year either. We've won less than 9 games about 4 times in the past 20+ years.
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It's funny how people in denial ignore the facts and even propagate erroneous information for their own agenda.
 
#1,711
#1,711
UT IE 95 said:
It's funny how people in denial ignore the facts and even propagate erroneous information for their own agenda.
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I don't think he's in denial. He just wants to see us win championships like everyone else. I just think he's reading something into that article that wasn't really there.
 
#1,712
#1,712
UT IE 95 said:
It's funny how people in denial ignore the facts and even propagate erroneous information for their own agenda.
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Yeah, you'd never do anything like that. Especially not in a discussion about Urban Meyer. Give me a freaking break.
 
#1,713
#1,713
The fact that people are defending Fulamanure with the "Oh, the SEC is so tough" garbage is Exhibit 1 as to why I will never attend another road game or donate a dollar above and beyond what it takes to keep my seats as long as that oaf is the head coach. The only thing more worthless than Fulmanure is his cadre of sycophants.
 
#1,714
#1,714
Ohio Vol said:
The question I continue to ask (without a satisfactory answer) is this.

We, as fans, expect multiple conference championships, nothing but 10+ win seasons, top-5 recruiting classes, etc. And yet we tell the Big Ten and Pac-10 fans that the SEC is tops because of the number of top-level teams, specifically in the East.

Can we really have it both ways? If the conference is as strong as we like to talk about, then it stands to reason that team success will inherently be more sparse than if UT were in another conference. And isn't something like an 8-4 or 9-3 record not a case of the sky falling, but an example of the depth and parity within this conference?
Click to expand...
good point :good!:
 
#1,715
#1,715
hatvol96 said:
The fact that people are defending Fulamanure with the "Oh, the SEC is so tough" garbage is Exhibit 1 as to why I will never attend another road game or donate a dollar above and beyond what it takes to keep my seats as long as that oaf is the head coach. The only thing more worthless than Fulmanure is his cadre of sycophants.
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Your eagerness to use derisive terms for Fulmer is duly noted, but is anybody really going out of their way to defend Fulmer in this thread?
 
#1,716
#1,716
kptvol said:
Yeah, you'd never do anything like that. Especially not in a discussion about Urban Meyer. Give me a freaking break.
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What are you talking about? Raising a team to modiocrity in the Colonial Athletic Association is just as impressive as leading a team to an undefeated season and a BCS win in the Mountain West. Keep up.
 
#1,717
#1,717
GAVol said:
Your eagerness to use derisive terms for Fulmer is duly noted, but is anybody really going out of their way to defend Fulmer in this thread?
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Board rules prevent me from using the terms I would really like to use in describing the pious, sanctimonious snitch.
 
#1,718
#1,718
The point though is that it doesn't matter how many games Fulmer wins or loses, you won't like the guy. So why pretend that the arguments even matter?
 
#1,719
#1,719
Ohio Vol said:
The question I continue to ask (without a satisfactory answer) is this.

We, as fans, expect multiple conference championships, nothing but 10+ win seasons, top-5 recruiting classes, etc. And yet we tell the Big Ten and Pac-10 fans that the SEC is tops because of the number of top-level teams, specifically in the East.

Can we really have it both ways? If the conference is as strong as we like to talk about, then it stands to reason that team success will inherently be more sparse than if UT were in another conference. And isn't something like an 8-4 or 9-3 record not a case of the sky falling, but an example of the depth and parity within this conference?
Click to expand...
Very well put.
 
#1,723
#1,723
GAVol said:
The point though is that it doesn't matter how many games Fulmer wins or loses, you won't like the guy. So why pretend that the arguments even matter?
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I find him a hell of a lot more tolerable when he's winning SEC titles. Funny how that works.
 
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