Fulmer Debate II

#401
#401
Vercingetorix said:
Fulmer was about a .500 coach in the SEC for six or seven years. He wasn't a proven winner anymore.
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35-21 from 2002-08 (his last 7 years, not including SECCG, unfair to penalize the loser like that since not every team plays that extra game) is now 50%? Ok, cool.
 
#403
#403
Vercingetorix said:
"Pick and choose"? Haven't you ever noticed how Phil Fulmer's career can be neatly divided into The Good Half and The Bad Half?
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It's more along the lines of The Really F-ing Good Half and The Half That Mirrors Decades of UT History That People Claim is Bad Because of Fulmer's Really F-ing Good Half.
 
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#404
#404
whobethis16 said:
35-21 from 2002-08 (his last 7 years, not including SECCG, unfair to penalize the loser like that since not every team plays that extra game) is now 50%? Ok, cool.
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All right, so he was .500 against all SEC teams other than Vanderbilt or Kentucky. What was his record against ranked teams over that span?
 
#405
#405
govols/cc said:
All I think is there should've been a better plan in place. Give him 2 years with a successor lined up or something.
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I agree with this. The plan was awful. I know some loved Kiffin and he had a few moments here his one year, but I remember when I heard the announcement, my reaction was "the guy Al Davis just ripped a new one?"
 
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#406
#406
Vercingetorix said:
All right, so he was .500 against all SEC teams other than Vanderbilt or Kentucky. What was his record against ranked teams over that span?
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Last time I checked, Vandy, UK, Miss. State, etc are all in the SEC, so who gives a damn? Florida has to play them, Bama does, UGA does, etc. Doesn't matter.
 
#407
#407
whobethis16 said:
Last time I checked, Vandy, UK, Miss. State, etc are all in the SEC, so who gives a damn? Florida has to play them, Bama does, UGA does, etc. Doesn't matter.
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Come on. Of COURSE it matters. If beating up on the bottom feeders was enough, Ron Zook, Tommy Tuberville, Jim Donnan and a host of other 7-8 win coaches would still be employed in the SEC. Everybody is evaluated on rivalry games.
 
#408
#408
whobethis16 said:
It's more along the lines of The Really F-ing Good Half and The Half That Mirrors Decades of UT History That People Claim is Bad Because of Fulmer's Really F-ing Good Half.
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So? The fact is that Fulmer had mostly quit winning and our fans had started abandoning ship. Several of our conference rivals had made coaching changes that appeared to get a leg up on us and and definitely resulted in dramatic success. It's naive to think the guy was going to have a lifetime job in those circumstances.

Would we be better off had we just kept Fulmer? Since we screwed up everything after that so badly, then yeah, probably. But we'd be even better off than that if we'd fired Fulmer and then not screwed up not one but two different coaching hires. Imagine how good Kevin Sumlin would look in orange.
 
#409
#409
Vercingetorix said:
So? The fact is that Fulmer had mostly quit winning and our fans had started abandoning ship. Several of our conference rivals had made coaching changes that appeared to get a leg up on us and and definitely resulted in dramatic success. It's naive to think the guy was going to have a lifetime job in those circumstances.

Would we be better off had we just kept Fulmer? Since we screwed up everything after that so badly, then yeah, probably. But we'd be even better off than that if we'd fired Fulmer and then not screwed up not one but two different coaching hires. Imagine how good Kevin Sumlin would look in orange.
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And then if he failed, people would ***** and moan about why we hired a Bama guy, just like they do about Hart and Cheek. Fans are NEVER happy with anything. And then we are back to square one, again.
 
#410
#410
govols/cc said:
Cause: Fulmer fired

Effect: we are abysmal & worse than ever
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There's a lot missing from your cause and effect.
 
#411
#411
Vercingetorix said:
So? The fact is that Fulmer had mostly quit winning and our fans had started abandoning ship. Several of our conference rivals had made coaching changes that appeared to get a leg up on us and and definitely resulted in dramatic success. It's naive to think the guy was going to have a lifetime job in those circumstances.

Would we be better off had we just kept Fulmer? Since we screwed up everything after that so badly, then yeah, probably. But we'd be even better off than that if we'd fired Fulmer and then not screwed up not one but two different coaching hires. Imagine how good Kevin Sumlin would look in orange.
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And you don't know what happened in those interviews, either. Maybe Sumlin came in cussing up a storm about how needs to be the new coach because he's god's gift to football, etc. To me, that says Sumlin screwed up his interview, not a botched hire.
 
#413
#413
whobethis16 said:
And then if he failed, people would ***** and moan about why we hired a Bama guy, just like they do about Hart and Cheek. Fans are NEVER happy with anything. And then we are back to square one, again.
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Fans would only have complained about Sumlin until the second he started winning. If Butch Jones wins a championship at UT, Vol fans will be carrying Dave Hart around Knoxville in a chair.
 
#415
#415
whobethis16 said:
And you don't know what happened in those interviews, either. Maybe Sumlin came in cussing up a storm about how needs to be the new coach because he's god's gift to football, etc. To me, that says Sumlin screwed up his interview, not a botched hire.
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The scuttlebutt at the time was that Sumlin was never really a serious candidate because Hamilton really wanted to win the press conference, and he thought trotting Dooley out there would accomplish that. Which of course it did.
 
#416
#416
govols/cc said:
There's also a lot missing from just saying "we made a bad hire".
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No, I get exactly what you're saying. You think Fulmer was a guaranteed thing and should have been given the option to leave on his own terms. And firing him caused a lot of money to be spent on buyouts, and the new staffs with questions, ect, ect.

None of that is the reason for us playing as bad as we are today. The cause of us being as bad as we are is Kiffin bolting after a year and Dooley coming in for 3 years and being completely incompetent.

As has been mentioned by other posters... had Brian Kelly, Kevin Sumlin, or any of the other coaches that have taken jobs in the past few years and are very successful been hired, we might be in a very different situation today.

All of the concerns and difficulties could have been overcome with a different coach. Fulmer isn't the only guy that could have won here. Just like if Butch gets things turned around, he's not the only one that could do so.

Would Fulmer have won another SEC Championship? Nobody can say. His detractors can point to poor recruiting, record, and losing badly to other elite SEC coaches. His fans will point to his 90's record and making a couple of SEC Championships in the past few years.

It doesn't matter. We were still in a position to be a competitive SEC team if they didn't hire incompetents. There's guys that could have propelled us to an SEC Championship just like the Dooley's that can cripple us.
 
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#418
#418
whobethis16 said:
IF he started winning. No guarantees.
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There's no guarantee about anything, is there? All you can do is evaluate probabilities. It's far more likely that a young hotshot coach could come into Tennessee and start winning, than that a older coach would suddenly regain championship form after an extended period of mediocrity.

Unfortunately, that assumes that the person making the hiring decision is someone who's smart enough to know that a younger coach's record is more important than a famous name and a southern accent.
 
#419
#419
Result of Hamilton having no athletic experience and being AD. You have to have that athletic experience or fund raise the hell outta people.
 
#423
#423
The fact that people still think keeping Fulmer was the best option shows how terrified Tennessee fans are of change.

I have no interest in seeing Tennessee play consistent 8-5/9-4 football whatsoever. Tennessee should either be playing at a championship level or taking the necessary steps to be playing at a championship level as quickly as possible.
 
#424
#424
tvolsfan said:
The fact that people still think keeping Fulmer was the best option shows how terrified Tennessee fans are of change.

I have no interest in seeing Tennessee play consistent 8-5/9-4 football whatsoever. Tennessee should either be playing at a championship level or taking the necessary steps to be playing at a championship level as quickly as possible.
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Welcome to 4-8
 
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