Fulmer Debate II

Record in Fulmer's Last 4 Seasons: 29-21
Record in 4 Seasons Since Fulmer's Firing: 23-28

# of Top-5 Classes in Fulmer's Last 4 Recruiting Classes: 2
# of Top-5 Classes Since Fulmer's Firing: 0

Your post doesn't really vouch for Fulmer all that well, IMO (assuming that's the intention).

Fulmer was 8 over .500 over 4 years with 2 top-5 recruiting classes. Kiffin/Dooley/Jones are 5 under .500 over 4 years with mediocre-at-best recruiting classes. The records aren't tremendously different by any stretch, although the talent differential between Fulmer and his successors is.
 
There's one major difference between us and nebraska in terms of recruiting difficulty. While our state is not talent rich we really are still in the middle of a hotbed for recruiting. Were close to Ohio and we boarder VA, NC, SC, GA, and AL which are talent rich states. Nebraska relied heavily on California for talent in its glory days which is pretty far geographically. Not to mention its Nebraska. Who would want to move there.
 
2007 SEC 14 10 4
2008 SEC 12 5 7
2009 SEC 13 7 6
2010 SEC 13 6 7
2011 SEC 12 5 7
2012 SEC 12 5 7
2013- 5 -7 is a distinct possibility right now.
 
There's one major difference between us and nebraska in terms of recruiting difficulty. While our state is not talent rich we really are still in the middle of a hotbed for recruiting. Were close to Ohio and we boarder VA, NC, SC, GA, and AL which are talent rich states. Nebraska relied heavily on California for talent in its glory days which is pretty far geographically. Not to mention its Nebraska. Who would want to move there.

Tennessee also went to California quite a bit as well, and Tennessee is much further away from home for a California kid than Nebraska is. For a California recruit, Tennessee has the same "who would want to live there" perception that Nebraska does. Don't see much difference there

I'm also assuming in their glory days Nebraska poached kids from Texas, who wasn't great in the mid-late 90s and is reasonably close by. Eric Crouch, who was so instrumental to so much of their success, actually was from Omaha.
 
fulmerpic.jpg
 
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Two reasons. First, Tennessee depends on other talent-rich programs being on down cycles more; I seriously doubt that will occur with the degree it took place in the 80's and 90's. Second, Fulmer was a very rare recruiter; no other coach has shown a 10+ year ability to land top-5 recruiting classes an average of once every three years or more.

What changed? First, ESPN revolutionized college football. Every program has serious cash, and with that cash, we have professionalized coaches who are highly unlikely to let their programs slip continually. Second, the SEC integrated, which is what made the pre-1975 comparisons to college football mostly irrelevant.

If you want to see additional examples, look at the non-talent rich programs across the country and their inability to compete at a top-10 level since the early part of the 2000's. Nebraska, the program most like us in combining great tradition with limited local talent, has tried three different style coaches, and none has returned them anywhere close to their glory days.

My take on Fulmer was not that he would return us to the 90's status; it was that his 2000 teams were still over-performing compared to what his likely replacements would perform. Fulmer didn't change; the circumstances changed, but his unusual recruiting ability kept us above where we would be without him. Now we get to see in live color what a Fulmer-less Tennessee team really looks like.

Fulmer didn't change???

:birgits_giggle:
 
Record in Fulmer's Last 4 Seasons: 29-21
Record in 4 Seasons Since Fulmer's Firing: 23-28

# of Top-5 Classes in Fulmer's Last 4 Recruiting Classes: 2
# of Top-5 Classes Since Fulmer's Firing: 0

Those stats don't mean anything to those of us who know far more about it than you. Here's a stat you need to wrap that one-track delusional mind of yours around: From 1987 until 2005, UT was in the top three of all colleges in the number of players on active NFL rosters. We're now #10. That's a clear indicator of our downward trend in recruiting during the last 10 years. Evidently, there weren't too many keepers in those 2 top ten classes during Fulmer's last 4 years.

Stop making excuses for him. It's his fault the program slipped into mediocrity from 2002-2008 and lost national relevance. We haven't had a top ten finish since 2001!

Your theories are your opinion only. The NFL stat is a fact that directly supports my claim. Your comparison to Nebraska has no merit considering the FACT that Tennessee, while not a juggernaut of high school football talent, is far better than Nebraska
 
Those stats don't mean anything to those of us who know far more about it than you. Here's a stat you need to wrap that one-track delusional mind of yours around: From 1987 until 2005, UT was in the top three of all colleges in the number of players on active NFL rosters. We're now #10. Tat's a clear indicator of our downward trend in recruiting during the last 10 years. Evidently, there weren't too many keepers in those 2 top ten classes during Fulmer's last 4 years.

Stop making excuses for him. It's his fault the program slipped into mediocrity from 2002-2008 and lost national relevance. We haven't had a top ten finish since 2001!

Your theories are your opinion only. The NFL stat is a fact that directly supports my claim. Your comparison to Nebraska has no merit considering the FACT that Tennessee, while not a juggernaut of high school football talent, is far better than Nebraska


USC, LSU and Miami had the most former players on 2013 NFL Week 1 rosters | Campus Union - SI.com

So, I guess Bama is 10th, too. Looking at the company, it seems UT was doing fine with talent in the NFL.
 
I don't understand how anyone claiming to be a Vol could dislike Phil Fulmer. The only folks that are very vocal about hating CPF are Bama fans.
 
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I don't understand how anyone claiming to be a Vol could dislike Phil Fulmer. The only folks that are very vocal about hating CPF are Bama fans.

I'd say people got tired of seeing the head kingpin of crime not accountable for his inmates, absolutely no discipline whatsoever, rampant drug usage, had to have vastly superior talent on the field to overcome coaching ineptness, players not coached up to anything near their potential, loved to punt in close games because he was playing not to win hoping the other team would give the game away, an infamous defensive coordinator that loved to give hard fought games away game after game and all of this kept in power by the Good Ole Boys Club. Remember that?
 
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I don't understand how anyone claiming to be a Vol could dislike Phil Fulmer. The only folks that are very vocal about hating CPF are Bama fans.

I don't dislike him personally. Too many of you guys have trouble with the context to discuss his coaching tenure rationally. Phillip Fulmer the person and Phillip Fulmer the coach are two different things entirely
 
I'd say people got tired of seeing the head kingpin of crime not accountable for his inmates, absolutely no discipline whatsoever, rampant drug usage, had to have vastly superior talent on the field to overcome coaching ineptness, players not coached up to anything near their potential, loved to punt in close games because he was playing not to win hoping the other team would give the game away and all of this kept in power by the Good Ole Boys Club. Remember that?

It became a country club atmosphere at the end of the nineties until Culcliffe came back in 2006. By then it was too late because Cutcliffe made it clear he was there for the short term. Look what happened when Cutcliffe left after the 2007 season. People like to ignorantly blame Clawson but the truth is, Clawson was hired in hopes of becoming the "coach-in-waiting". Notice it didn't take him long to get another HC job, albeit in the MAC. Still, he was thought highly enough of to merit several offers as HC at mid majors. After the disaster at UT in his one year there, you would have thought he might take a hit professionally. He didn't but we all know who did because there's too much real evidence to support that claim

Phillip is a great guy and never had it in him to be a tough disciplinarian. I know for a fact that Cutcliffe's public comments about the lack of discipline on the team when he returned in 2006 created some tension between Phillip and him. I am not saying they aren't still good friends, but they're not nearly as close as they once were and it's because of some of the things Cut did in his short return that made it perfectly clear with whom was responsible for the problem.
 
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It became a country club atmosphere at the end of the nineties until Culcliffe came back in 2006. By then it was too late because Cutcliffe made it clear he was there for the short term. Look what happened when Cutcliffe left after the 2007 season. People like to ignorantly blame Clawson but the truth is, Clawson was hired in hopes of becoming the "coach-in-waiting". Notice it didn't take him long to get another HC job, albeit in the MAC. Still, he was thought highly enough of to merit several offers as HC at mid majors. After the disaster at UT in his one year there, you would have thought he might take a hit professionally. He didn't but we all know who did because there's too much real evidence to support that claim

Phillip is a great guy and never had it in him to be a tough disciplinarian. I know for a fact that Cutcliffe's public comments about the lack of discipline on the team when he returned in 2006 created some tension between Phillip and him. I am not saying they aren't still good friends, but they're not nearly as close as they once were and it's because of some of the things Cut did in his short return that made it perfectly clear with whom was responsible for the problem.

Unless you were there in the locker room, you don't know that for fact. You can speculate, you can guess, etc, but you have no facts to support that. Quit acting like your personal opinion is fact.
 
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Unless you were there in the locker room, you don't know that for fact. You can speculate, you can guess, etc, but you have no facts to support that. Quit acting like your personal opinion is fact.

Stop telling me how I should act. LOL

Cut made the remarks in an interview that was broadcast over the Vol network. It not's a locker room thing, son. I have a 100% reliable source on the mild tension that developed as a result. It's not speculation, son. It's straight from someone who was right beside Fulmer for 6 years
 
Stop telling me how I should act. LOL

Cut made the remarks in an interview that was broadcast over the Vol network. It not's a locker room thing, son. I have a 100% reliable source on the mild tension that developed as a result. It's not speculation, son. It's straight from someone who was right beside Fulmer for 6 years

I have a reliable source that worked right beside Bush for 5 years and he says Bush planned 9/11. See? I can say things, too. Facts are indisputable and have evidence to back them up. For all I know, you're as crazy as James Stewart in "Harvey".
 
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You miss the PHIL.

I said TOTALLY HONEST.

I miss Phil. Not because of our current situation. I believe that CBJ will turn things around. IMO Phil Fulmer was University of Tennessee Football. He won championships. We were a top tier program under him. Yes, he had a 5-7 record when he was fired, but the year before we played the National Champions (LSU) down to the wire in the SEC Championship Game. Phil Fulmer didn't put UT where we are today. We (the fans and boosters) did that to ourselves.
 
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