Fulmer Debate II

#551
#551
MedicT said:
I have a question for you. When Alabama has the next inevitable down turn in their program, are you saying Saban (assuming he is still there) will "let" it happen?
Click to expand...

saban will retire in a few years with alabama on top, with 5 or 6 national titles in his pocket and $50 million in the bank.
 
#552
#552
VolsRule said:
saban will retire in a few years with alabama on top, with 5 or 6 national titles in his pocket and $50 million in the bank.
Click to expand...

I think he will retire as soon as he feels pressure from the fanbase after less than an 11 win season or they lose a bowl game, which ever comes first. He doesn't have the personal attachment to Bama that Fulmer has to UT.
 
#554
#554
MedicT said:
I have a question for you. When Alabama has the next inevitable down turn in their program, are you saying Saban (assuming he is still there) will "let" it happen?
Click to expand...

Another silly hypothetical, but I will answer. No, Saban won't allow Bama to drift into mediocrity by becoming complacent. When Saban goes, Alabama will still be loaded.

Two different situations and more importantly, two completely different coaches
 
#556
#556
114VOL said:
Another silly hypothetical, but I will answer. No, Saban won't allow Bama to drift into mediocrity by becoming complacent. When Saban goes, Alabama will still be loaded.

Two different situations and more importantly, two completely different coaches
Click to expand...

And that brings us back around to delusional attitudes. UT whether we like or not does not have the recruiting power of Alabama and it never has. For that reason our "falls" from the top will tend to be greater than Alabama's (due to the talent gap) and when combined with unrealistic expectations you have the situation UT has been in for 5 years.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#557
#557
MedicT said:
And that brings us back around to delusional attitudes. UT whether we like or not does not have the recruiting power of Alabama and it never has. For that reason our "falls" from the top will tend to be greater than Alabama's (due to the talent gap) and when combined with unrealistic expectations you have the situation UT has been in for 5 years.
Click to expand...
Alabama had a year where they started #3 and finished with 3 wins. You can't fall harder than that. :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#559
#559
GAVol said:
Yeah, those top 20 finishes probably got old for them during his last 4 years.

During the two best years of Fulmer's tenure, 97 and 98, Donnan was winning 10 and 9 games while playing in the same division as us and Florida. I'm not saying he was Nick Saban . . . but he wasn't exactly Sparky Woods either.

I think it was time for Fulmer to go in 2008, but I'll never get the mentality that some have that they need to minimize his accomplishments while he had it rolling.
Click to expand...

Going from 10 to 9 to 8 to 8 wins is a trend that will get you fired at a school like Georgia, and it should.

There's a reason Donnan is unemployed, and it ain't just cause he's a prick (Petrino). Had to run a ponzi scheme to make ends meet. Lol!
 
#561
#561
114VOL said:
Believe me when I tell you I am NOT satisfied with the current state of our program, but I am excited about the potential given what Jones is doing on the recruiting trail. Yeah, we better in 2007 than we are now. I agree with all of you on that issue, but that's not the point.
Click to expand...

That's the problem -- preferring a "potential" that will never likely occur. The 90's ain't never coming back, and we traded being a good but not dominant program for being a truly irrelevant program with fans always hoping for "potential." I'll take 2000-2008 over 2009-present and over 1975-1988.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people
#562
#562
05_never_again said:
There was a tremendous amount of discontent in 2002 after the 8-5 year (it's incredible to even type that - most Tennessee fans would kill for an 8-5 year now).
Click to expand...

Isn't that exactly the problem? Fans were measuring Fulmer against Fulmer, comparing his 2000 era teams to his 1990 teams. There was no Fulmer of the 90's who would be hired here if we fired Fulmer. The relevant comparison should have been Fulmer's 2000 era teams against his likely replacement's teams. The fans failure to make that comparison has led us to the horrid place we are now.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 people
#563
#563
Ha. Yeah. Make fun of Fulmer cuz things were sooooooo awful with him as coach as things are so friggin wonderful.

At least when Fulmer was here we were respected as a powerful football program. Now...we're nothing more than SEC bottom feeders. For how many yr's now?

Too bad you have no facts...or WINS since he left to back up your blind hatred for the guy.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 people
#565
#565
05_never_again said:
It was the large number of non-competitive games, even against higher ranked teams, that built up against Fulmer.
Click to expand...

The irony was the reason for fans to be upset was because we otherwise over-performed during that era compared to now, so fans expected games to always be close and competitive, which is a rarity now.

# of Season Losses by 14 or More
2000-2008: 15 games (12% of all games)
2009-2013: 15 games (30% of all games)

When you consider we played more ranked opponents under Fulmer than we did recently (due to bowl games, SEC title appearances, and tougher non-conference schedules), we basically tripled the "embarrassing loss" factor after firing him.

Also consider this:

# of Upsets Over Higher Ranked Top-20 Foes
2000-2008: 9 (30% of the time against such foes)
2009-pres: 0 (0% of the time against such foes)

# Of Losses to Unranked Foes
2000-2008: 9 (12% of the time against such foes)
2009-pres: 10 (33% of the time against such foes)
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#566
#566
Boston Vol said:
Lloyd Carr is in the hall of fame, he was basically told to get out of Ann Arbor. Mack Brown and Phil Fulmer have basically the same résumé. If Brown doesn't get things cranked up, his ass is gone in December. Are Texas fans overreacting?
Click to expand...

Does Tennessee have the same talent base as Texas? Does Tennessee have the same schedule as Texas? Is Texas likely to see better caliber applicants for its position than Tennessee did?

That's the relevant questions, and they are far different for the two programs.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people
#567
#567
There's nothing magical about alabama---they were mediocre when Saban took the job and he's won 3 titles and will probably win #4 this year. If saban came to UT, the same thing would happen---he can recruit and win at any big time school with a lot of money.
 
#568
#568
VolsRule said:
There's nothing magical about alabama---they were mediocre when Saban took the job and he's won 3 titles and will probably win #4 this year. If saban came to UT, the same thing would happen---he can recruit and win at any big time school with a lot of money.
Click to expand...


They Still have the Alabama Machine and Brain Trust etc....not sure how much you know about the history of the SEC and college football. The Alabama booster organizations behind the program is the closest thing to the mafia in college sports. Look up Colliers magazine article and you get an idea just how long they been at this......dirtiest history in the SEC. Or really anything in college sports. They were down because their fans went nuts chasing off good coaches like we are starting to become I fear. However ultimately the Machine would not be denied. Saban is a great coach, but I wonder if he bothers to ask questions that should be asked...
 
#569
#569
Sgt_Nick_Fury said:
They Still have the Alabama Machine and Brain Trust etc....not sure how much you know about the history of the SEC and college football. The Alabama booster organizations behind the program is the closest thing to the mafia in college sports. Look up Colliers magazine article and you get an idea just how long they been at this......dirtiest history in the SEC. Or really anything in college sports. They were down because their fans went nuts chasing off good coaches like we are starting to become I fear. However ultimately the Machine would not be denied. Saban is a great coach, but I wonder if he bothers to ask questions that should be asked...
Click to expand...

Dirtiest history in college sports? They've got nothing on UK basketball.
 
#570
#570
Boston Vol said:
Dirtiest history in college sports? They've got nothing on UK basketball.
Click to expand...

How to Keep Football stars in College expose on the Bama system

What other college had a national syndicate of high school farm teams.....they even had one in Knoxville... bought and paid off HS coaches.....moved kids through system like cattle.....Bama has made circumventing the rules an art going back to the 30's....Sorry UK basketball is still amateur compared to the sophistication and scope of the Bama Machine.....even with all that though Neyland still usually whipped their arses though.
 
#571
#571
MedicT said:
And that brings us back around to delusional attitudes. UT whether we like or not does not have the recruiting power of Alabama and it never has. For that reason our "falls" from the top will tend to be greater than Alabama's (due to the talent gap) and when combined with unrealistic expectations you have the situation UT has been in for 5 years.
Click to expand...

That may be true, but from the early 80s until the late 2000s we had more players on active NFL rosters than Bama so it's not as uneven in the recruiting department as you think. When Bear was coach, you could sign as many players as you want. Bear would often sign players just so other teams couldn't get them. That all changed when scholarship limits were established. We recruited better than Bama for the better part of two decades....and Phillip had a lot to do with that fact. One of his great attributes was his ability to recruit stud talent
 
Last edited:
#572
#572
VegasVol said:
That's the problem -- preferring a "potential" that will never likely occur. The 90's ain't never coming back, and we traded being a good but not dominant program for being a truly irrelevant program with fans always hoping for "potential." I'll take 2000-2008 over 2009-present and over 1975-1988.
Click to expand...

So you don't think UT will ever be as good as it was in the 90s?Ever again?

LOL...I understand what you're saying, I just don't buy into that thought process

It's time to move on from the past.
 
#573
#573
VegasVol said:
The irony was the reason for fans to be upset was because we otherwise over-performed during that era compared to now, so fans expected games to always be close and competitive, which is a rarity now.

# of Season Losses by 14 or More
2000-2008: 15 games (12% of all games)
2009-2013: 15 games (30% of all games)

When you consider we played more ranked opponents under Fulmer than we did recently (due to bowl games, SEC title appearances, and tougher non-conference schedules), we basically tripled the "embarrassing loss" factor after firing him.

Also consider this:

# of Upsets Over Higher Ranked Top-20 Foes
2000-2008: 9 (30% of the time against such foes)
2009-pres: 0 (0% of the time against such foes)

# Of Losses to Unranked Foes
2000-2008: 9 (12% of the time against such foes)
2009-pres: 10 (33% of the time against such foes)
Click to expand...

So you believe Fulmer should still be our coach?
 
Last edited:
#574
#574
Vercingetorix said:
He lost to Georgia Tech three years in a row. You can't do that at UGA and expect to keep your job.
Click to expand...

The last loss to Tech (which was one of the classic ref screw jobs I've ever seen) definitely did him in. It eroded enough of the donors to land him in a Fulmer type situation and the President wanted him gone even though Vince wanted to keep him. Still, my point stands. Donnan wasn't a complete idiot (until he started offering investment advice) and after 8 years of Ray Goff he looked like a decent coach.
 
#575
#575
UT's problems had little to do with the decision to cut ol Phil loose but more to do with the poor choices after. They dug a hole that will take years to climb out of. That piece of dirt at Southern Cal is mainly responsible. Go Vols
 
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.

VN Store



Back
Top