Fulmer Debate II

#677
#677
JMSqb11 said:
I forgot that Kelly and Patterson were knocking down Hamilton's door to coach here.
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Well since they both interviewed for the job, I'd say they were interested. Hell Dennis Dodd even wrote a column saying Kelly was pretty much a lock for the job.
 
#679
#679
#16s Dad said:
T Martin's legs won that NT imo.
:bammer:
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His threat to run won the NC, but his ability to throw the accurate deep ball along with his legs made a the differerence. Add to this a NC Defense.

Fulmer staying until CBJ arrived for stability may be right but I don't think it was going to ever happen. Think about Clawson's offense. Fans caused more ruckus and look at Mack Browns or Joe Pa seasons. Fans would have never stood for it.

Power and politics have resulted in the dilimia we are in today.






]
 
#680
#680
Gramps said:
Yes we did only play 11 games in 2005. Why, I do not know.
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Yes, that's correct, it was the last season that the NCAA had an 11 game schedule.

I had thought they made the change long before that, but no it was 2006
 
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#681
#681
I'll say this about the 5-7 in 2008. No way do we lose to Wyoming on our home field if Fulmer is not fired THAT WEEK. No way.

Here's what I think...Hammy looked at the schedule, decided that he could not afford to allow Fulmer to be bowl eligible and so fired him before that started to look likely. Just MO...but whether that's true or not, Hammy clearly did not give a **** if we beat Wyoming or not to have a chance to go 6-6 and make a bowl.

Apparently he didn't give a **** about anything to do with football.

Someone mentioned Tubberville before. Tubby never won an NC, though he got close, and whatever else you say about it his firing was handled much more smoothly than Fulmers. I am going to add that I think the TIMING of his firing was better.

I was not opposed to Fulmer moving on, but I didn't think 2008 was the year. Give him a few more years and let him stock up talent and then depart gracefully. Unfortunately he dug too deep a hole in 2008, but we would have been better had he stayed.
 
#682
#682
Think about it this way....the four most successful coaches from 1996-2000, the last half of the 90s, were Osborne, Fulmer, Bowden and Spurrier.

Osborne retired, SOS got mad and left. Bowden was allowed to retire more or less gracefully, at the cost of several mediocre years. Fulmer was forced out at the cost of 4 terrible years (and counting).

Just look where FSU is now...they manged to ease their "legend" out the door.

I say this because the FSU approach is what I wanted all along. I fully admit had Hamilton hired better the path might have been different, but frankly the odds were against it.

Look at other top programs from the 90s...Michigan, Nebraska...still trying to come back. It's tough to make a coaching change work, and even tougher to replace a legend.

It's bad karma to fire one of your best coaches of all time. Frankly as a fan I could tolerate a few more years like 2002-2004, because I think Fulmer could have kept us at that 8-10 win level at a minimum.
 
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#683
#683
For all you Fulmerites out there, if he had to build a program from scratch, just like what Jones is doing now, he wouldn't be able to do it! He would be saying the same generic BS Jones is now and the team would be just as it is now and the W/L record would be just as it is now! Less you forget Fulmer is the reason we are where we are now!
 
#684
#684
BanditVol said:
Think about it this way....the four most successful coaches from 1996-2000, the last half of the 90s, were Osborne, Fulmer, Bowden and Spurrier.

Osborne retired, SOS got mad and left. Bowden was allowed to retire more or less gracefully, at the cost of several mediocre years. Fulmer was forced out at the cost of 4 terrible years (and counting).

Just look where FSU is now...they manged to ease their "legend" out the door.

I say this because the FSU approach is what I wanted all along. I fully admit had Hamilton hired better the path might have been different, but frankly the odds were against it.

Look at other top programs from the 90s...Michigan, Nebraska...still trying to come back. It's tough to make a coaching change work, and even tougher to replace a legend.

It's bad karma to fire one of your best coaches of all time. Frankly as a fan I could tolerate a few more years like 2002-2004, because I think Fulmer could have kept us at that 8-10 win level at a minimum.
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Fulmer could have requested a scenario like Bowden's and it would have been granted. Bowden was forced to retire, plain and simple.
 
#686
#686
knoxvols11 said:
For all you Fulmerites out there, if he had to build a program from scratch, just like what Jones is doing now, he wouldn't be able to do it! He would be saying the same generic BS Jones is now and the team would be just as it is now and the W/L record would be just as it is now! Less you forget Fulmer is the reason we are where we are now!
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Yep and it's all Bush's fault too

He's gone. Been gone. Let it go.
 
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#687
#687
knoxvols11 said:
For all you Fulmerites out there, if he had to build a program from scratch, just like what Jones is doing now, he wouldn't be able to do it! He would be saying the same generic BS Jones is now and the team would be just as it is now and the W/L record would be just as it is now! Less you forget Fulmer is the reason we are where we are now!
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This argument will continue for as long as there is Tennessee football. But for the record, realize there are more than a few of us who strongly believe that we are where we are because of the unrealistic expectations of an Athletic Dept. and fanbase who were both spoiled on success. I think Jones is going to get UT back into SEC shape in short order then you can play "bash the coach" all over again when he drops an "off" year.
 
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#688
#688
volfanecs said:
All the threads asking if we can beat Vandy and Kentucky. CPF "padded" 152-52 with those two teams.
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some scores against Vandy with Manning behind center and a roster of NFL players

1995: 12-7
1996: 14-7
1997: 17-10

while UT fans may have felt it was a sure thing the scores don't say the same. Struggling with Vandy is nothing new
 
#689
#689
utvolpj said:
some scores against Vandy with Manning behind center and a roster of NFL players

1995: 12-7
1996: 14-7
1997: 17-10

while UT fans may have felt it was a sure thing the scores don't say the same. Struggling with Vandy is nothing new
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Even Spurrier noted as much in 01 when asked about our lack of performance against them. I believe this is what he said; "yeah, but they don't get up for those games anyway".

Another note, if Fulmer was griping about a top teir bowl or such he would run the score up on them.
 
#690
#690
knoxvols11 said:
For all you Fulmerites out there, if he had to build a program from scratch, just like what Jones is doing now, he wouldn't be able to do it! He would be saying the same generic BS Jones is now and the team would be just as it is now and the W/L record would be just as it is now! Less you forget Fulmer is the reason we are where we are now!
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the Tennessee fan base remind me of that good looking guy in high school and college who married the smoking hot chick. 10 years later, he puts on 50 pounds to start balding and she puts on 10 pounds. He starts looking at her and saying, "she's fat now. I can do better than this." he runs her off thinking about how great it's going to be banging all the new chicks. Then he discovers that the only girls interested in him are trolls. He's got issues and a bad history with women. Being fat, balding and 35 isn't as fun as he thought.
We did that with Fulmer. He won games. A lot of them. We got used to winning. When he hit a slump, we dropped him like a bad habit. Then we got stuck with troll coaches who couldn't recruit or win. We thought quality coaches were going to beat a path to our door.

We are getting what we deserve. We might have found a new hottie with Butch or he might be another troll. The jury is still out.
 
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#691
#691
knoxvols11 said:
Another note, if Fulmer was griping about a top teir bowl or such he would run the score up on them.
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so those 95-97 teams weren't trying to get a better bowl? In 97 a loss to Vandy would have taken us out of Fulmer's first SECCG so I'm guessing it was a pretty important game for him
 
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#693
#693
utvolpj said:
so those 95-97 teams weren't trying to get a better bowl? In 97 a loss to Vandy would have taken us out of Fulmer's first SECCG so I'm guessing it was a pretty important game for him
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You are missing the point there homey. The point is those games were gimmies and he knew it just like he knew we would win and no matter what we were resigned to which ever bowl (most likely Citrus) regardless of the score. Other times he wanted to impress voters so we would be either ranked higher or higher bowls would want us. So, not knowing it, but by showing a total lack of thought you proved my point! Didn't matter score in 97' because we were going to the SECCG!
 
#694
#694
knoxvols11 said:
You are missing the point there homey. The point is those games were gimmies and he knew it just like he knew we would win and no matter what we were resigned to which ever bowl (most likely Citrus) regardless of the score. Other times he wanted to impress voters so we would be either ranked higher or higher bowls would want us. So, not knowing it, but by showing a total lack of thought you proved my point! Didn't matter score in 97' because we were going to the SECCG!
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3 straight years of a TD or less is not a series of gimmies.
 
#695
#695
utvolpj said:
some scores against Vandy with Manning behind center and a roster of NFL players

1995: 12-7
1996: 14-7
1997: 17-10

while UT fans may have felt it was a sure thing the scores don't say the same. Struggling with Vandy is nothing new
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That was against Woody Widenhofer, or whatever his name was. I remember that circa early November 1998, he stated he was really glad that Tennessee kept trying to throw the ball around on Vandy, because all we really had to do was line up and run right at them.

So we did and crushed them in 1998. Of course, we had a run oriented team then, but it does make you wonder a bit. Widenhofer had Peyton and Cut figured out, but then again he was the Steelers DC in the 70s.

Good news....we ran on Auburn's D, we can run on Vandy's. Some things never change. :)
 
#696
#696
utvolpj said:
3 straight years of a TD or less is not a series of gimmies.
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Against Vandy or Kentucky during that time... Sure it was! Everybody knew that no matter what, no matter the score we were going to win. Even the players did. That's why they never got up for those games hence the low scores!
 
#697
#697
knoxvols11 said:
Against Vandy or Kentucky during that time... Sure it was! Everybody knew that no matter what, no matter the score we were going to win. Even the players did. That's why they never got up for those games hence the low scores!
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we lost to one in-state school in 96. I'm pretty sure a one TD win against the other in-state school was too close for Fulmer.
 
#698
#698
Boston Vol said:
Well since they both interviewed for the job, I'd say they were interested. Hell Dennis Dodd even wrote a column saying Kelly was pretty much a lock for the job.
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Do you not remember that practice for Cincy when the players made Kelly promise he wasn't leaving for Tennessee and he didn't? Kelly was never coming here as he was clearly set on staying at Cincy or going to ND.

Patterson clearly has Peterson syndrome as he will never leave that school. Gary Patterson will wind up being an AD at TCU.
 
#699
#699
knoxvols11 said:
Against Vandy or Kentucky during that time... Sure it was! Everybody knew that no matter what, no matter the score we were going to win. Even the players did. That's why they never got up for those games hence the low scores!
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Uh....no.
 
#700
#700
utvolpj said:
we lost to one in-state school in 96. I'm pretty sure a one TD win against the other in-state school was too close for Fulmer.
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So... you are saying.... Vandy and Kentucky were only a TD or so from being as good as Tennessee during those years? Dude, do you just play PS3 football where anybody can beat anybody? I bet you pkay on Jr Varsity level also. Now, wanna throw good ole Memphis State in there too.. Ok-same thing as Vandy and Ky except they didn't know they weren't suppose to win!
 
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