Fulmer Debate II

#151
#151
utvolpj said:
why should Fulmer have gotten 4 more years to turn around his own mess? He had quite a bit of time to make sure that didn't happen

if there was a wake up call it should have happened in 2005. It didn't and 2008 happened
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So you would rather an outsider, I am sorry, 3 outsiders spend 8-9 years or hell even a decade to fix this when Fulmer could have fixed it in 4-5 years. Seems like a tradeoff to me and we wouldn't hit the lows of where we are now.
 
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#152
#152
JMSqb11 said:
So you would rather an outsider, I am sorry, 3 outsiders spend 8-9 years or hell even a decade to fix this when Fulmer could have fixed it in 4-5 years. Seems like a tradeoff to me and we wouldn't hit the lows of where we are now.
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There is no evidence that the bolded would've happened
 
#153
#153
Eddie Vol Halen said:
Two things:

1. Fulmer basically put together the talent he "inherited".

2. Kiffin had two 1st rounders, four additional NFL draftees, a couple of guys who made rosters but weren't drafted, and a consensus 1st team All-SEC contributor who did not make the League. And that's NOT counting the NFL talent he ran off.
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Your first claim is a bad mischaracterization, but I get it. You don't really know how it works

There is a huge disparity in talent when you compare the 1992 team to the 2008 team

You're ignorant and totally FOS...name the NFL talent Kiffin ran off.
 
#154
#154
Eddie Vol Halen said:
Why do so many have so much trouble with this?

Phil literally held this team together at the end. I love Johnny, but the reality is Phil built Tennessee into the powerhouse we were, and it started when he became OC and RC.
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Yes he did. He had a great run, but got complacent in the end and did not do very well replacing Cutcliffe either.
 
#155
#155
JMSqb11 said:
So you would rather an outsider, I am sorry, 3 outsiders spend 8-9 years or hell even a decade to fix this when Fulmer could have fixed it in 4-5 years. Seems like a tradeoff to me and we wouldn't hit the lows of where we are now.
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Fulmer had plenty of years(2002-2008) to rebuild us back to national relevance and didn't get it done. There is no history of him building a program from the depths so what on earth makes you believe he would have fixed it? I will tell you what! Your emotion, which drives your opinions rather than facts.
 
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#156
#156
114VOL said:
Fulmer had plenty of years(2002-2008) to rebuild us back to national relevance and didn't get it done. There is no history of him building a program from the depths so what on earth makes you believe he would have fixed it? I will tell you what! Your emotion, which drives your opinions rather than facts.
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Lol. There is no history saying he wouldn't either although his history shows he was a winner. The knee jerk reaction to can him utimately backfired in a huge way so all the idiots who wanted him gone with nobody remotely lined up to fill in have to support every loser that we have had to SETTLE with. Because Kiffin is gonna get us back to the top..... no wait Dooley is the man......well Butch gets "it" which is obvious after 4 games with abysmal play & sub par coaching.
 
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#157
#157
Here is how I view this. Fulmer built a great program and changed everyone's perception of what the Volunteers are. It changed our expectation level in terms of wins, championships and dominance. Nothing but SEC championships and competing for NC was acceptable and IT WAS GREAT while it lasted.

Fulmer's teams slipped towards the end of his tenure - seems like we couldn't ever win the big one. Recruiting slipped somewhat as well.

Because our expectations had changed, this was no longer acceptable to anyone. And rightly so.

We owe Fulmer a lot for changing our expectations and what he did for the program.

Where would be if Fulmer was still the coach - who knows - that's impossible to say.

I don't think anyone expected the fast and sudden fall from dominance that we have experienced. Everybody expected a new coach would get us back to fighting for championships, but instead all it has done is destroy a proud program.

This SUCKS. And has SUCKED for a while now. The product we had on the field last weekend was utterly embarrassing. Was it coaching? I don't know? Was it talent? I don't know that either. All I know is as a fan base we are HURTING big time.

It seems all programs go through this, let's hope the end is near and CBJ is our savior. It is painful to be a VOL fan and I want the pain to end - SOON.
 
#158
#158
Fulmer was fired for going 5-7 one year and starting bad another year. Since then, through 4 seasons, we've won 6 SEC games, or 1.25 a year. Yes, I miss Fulmer. Yes, I miss Chief. Nobody could have predicted our downfall after firing Fulmer. The fans were right to be unhappy. But Fulmer's worst seasons are now our ceiling. I hope it changes. I think it can. But right now, after knowing what we know, I have no idea how anyone could argue that firing Fulmer was the right move.
 
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#160
#160
In other news, Coach Phillip Fulmer attended his first Tennessee football practice today since being fired 4 years ago.

I think that's pretty relevant, probably far more so than most of the discussion in here.
 
#162
#162
jps2194 said:
Here is how I view this. Fulmer built a great program and changed everyone's perception of what the Volunteers are. It changed our expectation level in terms of wins, championships and dominance. Nothing but SEC championships and competing for NC was acceptable and IT WAS GREAT while it lasted.

Fulmer's teams slipped towards the end of his tenure - seems like we couldn't ever win the big one. Recruiting slipped somewhat as well.

Because our expectations had changed, this was no longer acceptable to anyone. And rightly so.

We owe Fulmer a lot for changing our expectations and what he did for the program.

Where would be if Fulmer was still the coach - who knows - that's impossible to say.

I don't think anyone expected the fast and sudden fall from dominance that we have experienced. Everybody expected a new coach would get us back to fighting for championships, but instead all it has done is destroy a proud program.

This SUCKS. And has SUCKED for a while now. The product we had on the field last weekend was utterly embarrassing. Was it coaching? I don't know? Was it talent? I don't know that either. All I know is as a fan base we are HURTING big time.

It seems all programs go through this, let's hope the end is near and CBJ is our savior. It is painful to be a VOL fan and I want the pain to end - SOON.
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Well said
 
#164
#164
114VOL said:
My point was that Majors won a SEC title without Fulmer as OC. Fulmer never won one without Cutcliffe as OC. A point that always seems to go over the heads of those with selective memory
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Your point should be......That Fulmer was smart enough to hire Cutcliff in the first place.
 
#165
#165
VOLumeS said:
If you kept Fulmer you had Tajh Boyd.
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You also had mediocre coaching and a guy that was resting on his laurels.

Lets face it. After a certain period of time coaches quit coaching and start trying to tell everyone how great they were. Look at Fulmer and most recently Mack Brown.

Yeah they were good in their day with a certain coaching staff, but they lost it.

Let Fulmer go. He's never coming back and he deserved to be fired.
 
#166
#166
#1Volfaninmo said:
Yes he did. He had a great run, but got complacent in the end and did not do very well replacing Cutcliffe either.
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THIS!!! At the end Phil was just drawing a paycheck, recruiting sub SEC players, left Kiffin and the program empty, we're still paying for it. Phil did a great there for a while but IMO, you can still lay a lot of the decline squarely at his feet that we feel today.
 
#167
#167
utvolpj said:
29-21 in his last 4 seasons. His most successful season in that 4yr stretch included blowout losses of 59-20 to UF and 41-17 to bama (a 6-6 bama team that lost to UL-Monroe at home)

trying to figure out whether to file that under upholding tradition or winning football
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File it under winning the east,
 
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#168
#168
VolStrom said:
You also had mediocre coaching and a guy that was resting on his laurels.

Lets face it. After a certain period of time coaches quit coaching and start trying to tell everyone how great they were. Look at Fulmer and most recently Mack Brown.

Yeah they were good in their day with a certain coaching staff, but they lost it.

Let Fulmer go. He's never coming back and he deserved to be fired.
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So if butch goes 5-7 this year and next he should be fired right?

Also, Dooley was allowed 3 bad years, why was Fulmer only allowed 2?

Btw, everyone who had a part in firing Fulmer, is now fired. Wonder why??? Hmmmmmm....
 
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#169
#169
VolStrom said:
You also had mediocre coaching and a guy that was resting on his laurels.

Lets face it. After a certain period of time coaches quit coaching and start trying to tell everyone how great they were. Look at Fulmer and most recently Mack Brown.

Yeah they were good in their day with a certain coaching staff, but they lost it.

Let Fulmer go. He's never coming back and he deserved to be fired.
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Then get out of the Fulmer debate HE is the reason you even have good ole days he hired a bad OFF Cord but he did take you to a SECCG the year before he was fired. Yet your argument is oh he got lucky you dont beat Matt Stafford 35 to 14 and get lucky or beat Steve Spurrier face it he's the best coach in your lifetime either back the man because he IS TNs history or get a new team.
 
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#170
#170
Vol4life25 said:
So if butch goes 5-7 this year and next he should be fired right?

Also, Dooley was allowed 3 bad years, why was Fulmer only allowed 2?

Btw, everyone who had a part in firing Fulmer, is now fired. Wonder why??? Hmmmmmm....
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Really?

How can you possibly compare Butch Jones to any incumbent coach that has presided over a program for 10+ years?
 
#171
#171
What cracks me up, is all the know it alls that were yelling at the top of their lungs for Fulmer to be fired are now trying to use every desperate idiotic reason that they can come up with to justify getting what they wanted.

They wanted change and boy did we get it. There is no way in hell that any of you can convince me that we are better off today. None. You can try and argue the point all you want, it speaks for itself.
 
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#172
#172
VolStrom said:
You also had mediocre coaching and a guy that was resting on his laurels.

Lets face it. After a certain period of time coaches quit coaching and start trying to tell everyone how great they were. Look at Fulmer and most recently Mack Brown.

Yeah they were good in their day with a certain coaching staff, but they lost it.

Let Fulmer go. He's never coming back and he deserved to be fired.
Click to expand...

So you're saying it would be better than we got now?
 
#174
#174
jps2194 said:
Here is how I view this. Fulmer built a great program and changed everyone's perception of what the Volunteers are. It changed our expectation level in terms of wins, championships and dominance. Nothing but SEC championships and competing for NC was acceptable and IT WAS GREAT while it lasted.

Fulmer's teams slipped towards the end of his tenure - seems like we couldn't ever win the big one. Recruiting slipped somewhat as well.

Because our expectations had changed, this was no longer acceptable to anyone. And rightly so.

We owe Fulmer a lot for changing our expectations and what he did for the program.

Where would be if Fulmer was still the coach - who knows - that's impossible to say.

I don't think anyone expected the fast and sudden fall from dominance that we have experienced. Everybody expected a new coach would get us back to fighting for championships, but instead all it has done is destroy a proud program.

This SUCKS. And has SUCKED for a while now. The product we had on the field last weekend was utterly embarrassing. Was it coaching? I don't know? Was it talent? I don't know that either. All I know is as a fan base we are HURTING big time.

It seems all programs go through this, let's hope the end is near and CBJ is our savior. It is painful to be a VOL fan and I want the pain to end - SOON.
Click to expand...

Not bashing Fulmer but you need to check some records. Johnny Majors is who rebuilt the program.
The TN program was loaded with talent when Phil took over in 1992. IIRC TN won the SEC in 89 and 90.
Phil did continue the sucess and won the NC in 98 and had a real chance at repeating in 01.

I don't think Majors could have won the NC if he had stayed and I don't think Fulmer would have won it without Majors rebuilding the program.

Both Majors and Fulmer have brought some great memories . Both brought us some disappointment.

Both have won a NC as HC.
 
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